Need machinery suggestion for 12' long part

[tylersteez]

You guys are thinking too small. If he works for who I think he works for, they run machines straightening all metals from .05 to .750”, buy sell and rebuild the main historical brands of machines, and sell parts.
they dont need to do “one”, they need to be able to supply a wide range of sizes to fit the standard industry machines for themselves and their customers, who are probably many of the main shops doing this work. They hava a big shop, power, and can afford a footing if needed, so they can make these parts right, inhouse.

Absolutely nailed it, thank you. PM sent to see if you are in fact thinking of the correct employer lol

 

[tylersteez]

Since this is a recurring job and you are experiencing excessive delivery times as well as escalating prices, I would suggest a jig/fixture made just for this job.

Instead of moving the stock in jumps, move it continuously. That would eliminate any jogs at the points where you stop for the moves. The jig/fixture is mounted to the table of a normal sized mill and both of them are locked down for the cut. A series of rollers on all four sides (front, back, top, and bottom) and with full guidance on both sides of the spindle/tool would guide the stock through the cut. These rollers would be fixed on four movable plates (front, back, bottom, and top) so different widths and heights could be accommodated. Motors (large steppers?) with hard rubber drive wheels would also be on these plates on both sides of the spindle/tool so at least one set of motors would be able to drive the stock at all times. There should be an adjustment for pressure of those rollers on the stock. Steppers would be easy to keep in sync and would provide a variable speed feed. Supports on each side of the table to hold the weight of the stock as it protrudes off the table.

Just feed the stock in from one end and out it comes at the other. Complete automation. Suggest someone keep an eye on the process anyway. That could be a low wage employee with instructions to touch nothing except the STOP button if anything goes wrong.

Set all of this up on a dedicated milling machine. It could even be a well worn or (heaven forbid) Chinese one as the table will never move and does not even need to be very flat.

The bottom plate with it's rollers would stay fixed on the table. The front and back plates could have taper pin locators which would fix them for different sizes of this product. The top plate could have different spacers for the same purpose. That would allow stock of any rectangular dimensions to be accommodated.

Think I may draw up and design something like this. Fixed back and bottom rollers. adjustable z top rollers and adjustable y front rollers. Stepper drive motors would be a new thing to me and feel like going with an acme thread rod would be ideal in my situation. also machining the back fence of the sled accurate over the 12' would be difficult

 

[DDoug]

Think I may draw up and design something like this. Fixed back and bottom rollers. adjustable z top rollers and adjustable y front rollers. Stepper drive motors would be a new thing to me and feel like going with an acme thread rod would be ideal in my situation. also machining the back fence of the sled accurate over the 12' would be difficult

You don't have to doo this all in house.
Design the base/table on CAD, send files out for burning, have fab shop weld them up.

Contract with a shop that can mill the table flat. Have them put the major holes in place on the machine.

Bring that machined weldment in house, and then start assembling your linear ways.

BTW I mentioned having qty (2) Bridgeport heads, one leading with a plain endmill for roughing, lollipop cutter trailing.
Table could be shorter (and more productive) with the (2) heads beside each other.
Run (2) parts at once, left side is roughing, right side is finishing.

 

[tylersteez]

You don't have to doo this all in house.
Design the base/table on CAD, send files out for burning, have fab shop weld them up.

Contract with a shop that can mill the table flat. Have them put the major holes in place on the machine.

Bring that machined weldment in house, and then start assembling your linear ways.

BTW I mentioned having qty (2) Bridgeport heads, one leading with a plain endmill for roughing, lollipop cutter trailing.
Table could be shorter (and more productive) with the (2) heads beside each other.
Run (2) parts at once, left side is roughing, right side is finishing.

Very true, I don't have any cad experience but it's something I've wanted to learn so maybe this project will kickstart that. I do like the dual bridgeport heads but have a feeling that will be a "no" from above

 

[DDoug]

Very true, I don't have any cad experience but it's something I've wanted to learn so maybe this project will kickstart that. I do like the dual bridgeport heads but have a feeling that will be a "no" from above

Qty (1) head versus qty (2) heads will be determined by how many you have to run thru
the machine each day, the "Floor-to-Floor time".

I suggest you ask the Homepage - H & W Machine Repair about a couple of
rebuild heads, getting a firm price should help you when dealing with the finance people.

Also, the (2) heads, running (2) parts at one time, will cut the labor burden rate
per part by 1/2.

 

[Phil in Montana]

This reminds me of the guy that didnt like the cost of...wood...gas...steel, ect so he is going to build his own plant to make what he wants CHEAP!!! lots of luck, stick with your supplier and do what you do best...Phil

 

[Ries]

This reminds me of the guy that didnt like the cost of...wood...gas...steel, ect so he is going to build his own plant to make what he wants CHEAP!!! lots of luck, stick with your supplier and do what you do best...Phil

Again, if its who I think it is, they have significant in house machining, rebuild machines all the time, and have a centerless grinding division. As in, this is a factory, not a guy who is gonna mill his own trees to build one house.
I knew a guy who worked at a mill that did a lot of large scale upsetting- Acmes that ran to a half a million pounds worth of machine, with hundreds of tons of force. Even though their main job was making the forgings, they HAD to become experts at rebuilding the machines, because there was nobody else out there, in the world, with as much experience with 80 year old machines.
These wire straightening machines are a pretty obscure thing, with 3 to 5 manufacturers, some of whom are no longer in business, dominating the industry, and the OP sells parts to the users of these machines.
Making the exact right part in house seems to me to be preferable, in the long run, to relying on a job shop that doeant know or care about the specifics of your industry. If times are good, they are busy, and you get pushed back in favor of the bigger jobs. If times are bad, they go under.
Me, I have always spent money I probably didnt have to to buy machines and bring as much as possible in house. And even if I have certain machines that only get used 2 times a year, its been worth owning em.

 

[wheels17]

I don't know the dimensions, but could you start with DOM tubing of proper dimensions, square it up, and then slot into the round opening already in the tube? No messing with fragile cutters. DOM may be too stressed to allow the slot dimension to be held.

 

[Doozer]

If you make that much of this stuff,
why not have it extruded ?
1018 is easy.
I used to get extruded A36 and A588
steel extruded expansion joint abutments
from Watson Bowman Acme in Amherst NY.
They run the extruder right there in
their shop. Been there many times.
Have an extruder die made. Have your
parts run out and straightened and
never mill them again.

-Doozer

 

[garyhlucas]

Used Komo VMC144 and you’ll be able to do a lot more than just this part.

 

[EPAIII]

I was not suggesting that the fixture would be a full 12 feet long. Just two or three feet to each side of the mill's spindle should be enough to provide guidance for the full length of the stock. Two or three sets of rollers on each side. And outboard supports on both sides to feed the stock in and out.

Use whatever kind of motors and drive system you want. I was only illustrating the idea with steppers. Actually they are easy to create drive electronics for using readily available, stock modules.

Think I may draw up and design something like this. Fixed back and bottom rollers. adjustable z top rollers and adjustable y front rollers. Stepper drive motors would be a new thing to me and feel like going with an acme thread rod would be ideal in my situation. also machining the back fence of the sled accurate over the 12' would be difficult

 

[michiganbuck]

QT:Quote Originally Posted by tylersteez View Post
Think I may draw up and design something like this. Fixed back and bottom rollers. adjustable z top rollers and adjustable y front rollers. Stepper drive motors would be a new thing to me and feel like going with an acme thread rod would be ideal in my situation. also machining the back fence of the sled accurate over the 12' would be difficult

And that would take back of the merits of a lathe bed with a lead screw. Even the non-way areas of a lathe bed are very close. Stripping a lathe bed down to just the bed, the saddle, and the screw would/could be a good start to fabricating such a machine.

finding a long lathe for scrap price would be a good start.
This is a good price for a long piece of steel fixture.
One for scrap might be at scrap price or free.
Used Lathes for sale in Ohio, USA | Machinio
Just a long Acme screw would cost a bundle.
This machine is about double scrapweight price.