New Cam Software NX or Esprit

[cameraman]

Hello.
Esprit templates are great almost just drag and drop. I think they have an option for knowledge base or something like that, that might make it faster but I dont have that. What I dont like about my version of esprit is the lack of ability to do a second or third op in the same file. Right now I have to save as and then delete everything and then restart generating geometry. As far as cad, sure you can generate basic stuff that you can use to help you machine but its not nx. What sold me on nx is stuff like this Siemens NX Pro Tutorial - how to design extreme flexible parts through horizontal relations - YouTube and their part template studio

Hi Plutoniumsalmon,

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What I dont like about my version of ESPRIT is the lack of ability to do a second or third op in the same file. Right now I have to save as and then delete everything and then restart generating geometry.

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Is there a version that IS ? :-)



^^^ Click to "blow-up"

This is 3+2 , idea ,

BUT wondered if ESPRIT had some tools for enhanced "stock awareness" and various tools that would be more helpful for fixture design and more complicated set-ups in a 3 axis mill environment ... Or does that all sort of lean back to the original CAD system.

If I understand you correctly.

(I wonder if that it's just not better at that 'cuz that would utilize "too much" of its 5 axis code base ? ) Then "Peeps" would add their own transformations and connecting scraps of code for 3+2 five axis to kind of cheap out ? ( Possibly) ? ).

ESPRIT looks like it has some good fine surface(ing) - strategies (geometrically) / Prettier looking parts if you want that ?

IS MASTERCAM better for fixture design and multiple ops + integration with probing routines etc. ? [I'm not a MC user].

Is there another CAM package that is better geared towards fixture design and multiple/ tricky or unusual setups ?

Maybe NX-CAx is better for that ?


Apologies for being a temporary tangential branch off the main topic - not to derail.

Thanks!

 

[plutoniumsalmon]

Hello.

I can't comment on most of this unfortunately. I use esprit 2017 for the myw lathe and don't have surfacing or probing. I do know that probing works really well in hsm works and so does machining of stock based on previous operations and setups. There is another dude here that knows esprit really well. I just use it for simple stuff.

 

[wheelieking71]

We were disappointed when Delcam was acquired by Autodesk because the writing was on the wall.

You are not alone my friend! Not alone.

 

[wheelieking71]

What I dont like about my version of esprit is the lack of ability to do a second or third op in the same file. Right now I have to save as and then delete everything and then restart generating geometry.

Am I miss-understanding this statement? Or, can you not have more than one set-up, work-coordinate, or UCS, in the same part file?
Like G54, first OP, machine main features of part. G55, second OP, machine back-side features. Is this what you are saying you can not do in the same part file?

If so, that is a deal-breaker for me, and I can pretty much quit shopping Esprit.

Because, as a long time hard-core FeatureCAM guy, I am getting F$&#!'ed. And, kinda shopping around.
Fusion was NEVER on the list. But, it looks like I can remove Esprit as well?

 

[plutoniumsalmon]

Am I miss-understanding this statement? Or, can you not have more than one set-up, work-coordinate, or UCS, in the same part file?
Like G54, first OP, machine main features of part. G55, second OP, machine back-side features. Is this what you are saying you can not do in the same part file?

If so, that is a deal-breaker for me, and I can pretty much quit shopping Esprit.

Because, as a long time hard-core FeatureCAM guy, I am getting F$&#!'ed. And, kinda shopping around.
Fusion was NEVER on the list. But, it looks like I can remove Esprit as well?

Hello. I am not sure I think the TNG version has this. I never really asked until now and I have the previous version. I am sure the sales person would answer this. The way the cam wizzard taught me is that you copy and paste stuff and delete the things that you dont want. Again this is lathe 20xx so not current.

 

[cameraman]

Am I miss-understanding this statement? Or, can you not have more than one set-up, work-coordinate, or UCS, in the same part file?
Like G54, first OP, machine main features of part. G55, second OP, machine back-side features. Is this what you are saying you can not do in the same part file?

If so, that is a deal-breaker for me, and I can pretty much quit shopping Esprit.

Because, as a long time hard-core FeatureCAM guy, I am getting F$&#!'ed. And, kinda shopping around.
Fusion was NEVER on the list. But, it looks like I can remove Esprit as well?

I'll give them a buzz later this week - I'm mainly interested in their Wire Edm offerings but wondered what they had in terms of fixtures/ multiple set ups as they seem quite geared to 5 axis / multi axis -superficially on their web site.

It's not beyond the "wit of man" but one would think with all their "AI" stuff that they had better tools / workflow for more complex 3 axis stuff/ fixture/ fixture design ?

Maybe / maybe not ?

 

[macds]

Multiple work offsets is not a problem with Esprit.
Just right click in the "feature" pane, and add as many work offsets as you want.

 

[Shawnrs]

I'm currently at the very beginning of a month long trial of NX. Find a VAR and say you'd like to evaluate the software and their support. I'm currently working with Swoosh Tech which has been excellent so far.

ESPRIT's best offer was to have a sales engineer come for a day to do in person demos. That might work for you, but I appreciate the full month to evaluate NX.

Here is how I would approach this situation. First contact Esprit and set up a date for the demonstration. Second I would send them one lathe and one mill part that is made in the shop with code. I would give him time to get familiar with my product and ask him to duplicate our programs. I don't want to see the demo part the salesman/ tech guy uses on each presentation. Then I would also send Esprit one of my most difficult parts to make and see what it takes to make this part in their software. When I say difficult I mean one that is a bitch to make with your own software. I want to see them sweat it out programming difficult parts and get an idea on if this software is what I want. I like having a tech guy at my place because I usually bombard them with difficult questions that make them sweat a bit. After the demonstration is over I have asked for a temp key so I can use the software for a few weeks or a month before making a decision.


I have evaluated software before yet I seem to struggle with some simple tasks when programming an unfamiliar software. The YouTube videos seem to be basic where I program outside the box.

 

[plutoniumsalmon]

Multiple work offsets is not a problem with Esprit.
Just right click in the "feature" pane, and add as many work offsets as you want.

Hello. Can you split them into different jobs in TNG, like in HSM works (job1,2 and so on) or do you have to suppress your operations and post out?

 

[macds]

Of the same part?

If so, I would leave everything enabled and just select the toolpaths you want to post.
That way your stock calculations dont get all messed up.

I havnt used Esprit for a while, so I dont know where TNG is at with development. I did beta testing for a couple years though.

Goose is more up to date on it I think.

 

[g-coder05]

Am I miss-understanding this statement? Or, can you not have more than one set-up, work-coordinate, or UCS, in the same part file?
Like G54, first OP, machine main features of part. G55, second OP, machine back-side features. Is this what you are saying you can not do in the same part file?

If so, that is a deal-breaker for me, and I can pretty much quit shopping Esprit.

Because, as a long time hard-core FeatureCAM guy, I am getting F$&#!'ed. And, kinda shopping around.
Fusion was NEVER on the list. But, it looks like I can remove Esprit as well?

They have a decent multiple part offset but I don't think any system has a better multiple part tool as good as Featurecam.

 

[Locker]

Just as macds said, you can add multiple WCS, UCS, workplanes, parts, its not a problem at all, you can add as many as you want, its really simple, just right click on the feature panel and you add work coordinate.

Esprit is really not that complicated to use, once you get to know it a little better.
Feature recognition works really good and ease your workflow.

You can save your complete tool list (including tool stickout, holder dimensions) in separate file on computer, send it to other computer, use for other jobs, etc.

You can save your toolpath, and load it to another program (lets say you spent days optimising some weird long tool, you found sweetspot in speed, feed, doc and woc, save it, load it every time you use that tool, its all there).

Its also working very well with Machining Cloud, find your tool there, mate it with your holder, save combination and load it in Esprit, and you got youself tool-holder combo, along with cutting parameters...

One thing i like the most is that you can add multiple features(pockets,chains,holes etc) to same group, and when you load or make your toolpath, you can change parameters as you need, for every feature itself or for all of them at once (like you realised that your feed or speed are totally wrong, just edit them in main branch in process tree, and it will change it for all features inside that main branch.

Stock awerness works really good, as well as collision detection( with part, with fixtures, spanners, machine itself, which was not the case with some other CAM programs I used). Simulation is excellent. You can save simulation at some point with Save current stock option, so that it doesnt simulate every operation(like ones that you allready went through on machine and you know they are god, or roughing operations that doesnt interest you because you know that you left enough stock for finnishing) so you can ease it up a little on computer performance, easpecially if you have lots of true five axis toolpaths, wich can be cumbersome on your computer...

Maybe many other CAM program has all of this features and perks that I listed above, wouldn't know as I haven't use them every one of them...

I'm not affiliated with DP in any way, just making my living using Esprit every day at my workshop...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cameraman]

Just as macds said, you can add multiple WCS, UCS, workplanes, parts, its not a problem at all, you can add as many as you want, its really simple, just right click on the feature panel and you add work coordinate.

Esprit is really not that complicated to use, once you get to know it a little better.
Feature recognition works really good and ease your workflow.

You can save your complete tool list (including tool stickout, holder dimensions) in separate file on computer, send it to other computer, use for other jobs, etc.

You can save your toolpath, and load it to another program (lets say you spent days optimising some weird long tool, you found sweetspot in speed, feed, doc and woc, save it, load it every time you use that tool, its all there).

Its also working very well with Machining Cloud, find your tool there, mate it with your holder, save combination and load it in Esprit, and you got youself tool-holder combo, along with cutting parameters...

One thing i like the most is that you can add multiple features(pockets,chains,holes etc) to same group, and when you load or make your toolpath, you can change parameters as you need, for every feature itself or for all of them at once (like you realised that your feed or speed are totally wrong, just edit them in main branch in process tree, and it will change it for all features inside that main branch.

Stock awerness works really good, as well as collision detection( with part, with fixtures, spanners, machine itself, which was not the case with some other CAM programs I used). Simulation is excellent. You can save simulation at some point with Save current stock option, so that it doesnt simulate every operation(like ones that you allready went through on machine and you know they are god, or roughing operations that doesnt interest you because you know that you left enough stock for finnishing) so you can ease it up a little on computer performance, easpecially if you have lots of true five axis toolpaths, wich can be cumbersome on your computer...

Maybe many other CAM program has all of this features and perks that I listed above, wouldn't know as I haven't use them every one of them...

I'm not affiliated with DP in any way, just making my living using Esprit every day at my workshop...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for taking the time to set that all out - I'm not thread hijacking - but (appreciate it) !

Sounds promising.

Some of their tool path choices look really good especially for following "Flow" or parametric geometry and various zones/ selected surface groupings.

@Locker do you use any of the other products from ESPRIT ?

I have to admit I kinda like the "Buzz" of their development team - seems like "Good energy" versus giant conglomerate "Vibe".

 

[jeffj]

I use NX to program twin spindle Y axis lathes day in day out, twin turret millturns etc etc. If the number of dialogs in Esprit don't phase you then the dialogs in NX won't either.

There are demonstrations on YouTube showing NX programming and simulating a triple turret lathe so swiss machines should not be a problem

Getting a post and simulation for Fanuc Siemens or Heidenhain in should be acheivable for most reseller. Okuma posts are a WIP but our reseller got us going with a little bit of collaboration.

Also consider post builder training, teach a man to fish.......

Consider Post Configurator training and not Post Builder.

 

[plutoniumsalmon]

Seems like I need to upgrade to TNG. I still don't know how to do the second op on the opposite face of a turned part in the same file but for what I do it works as is. Though machine cloud integration would be interesting

 

[Mike1974]

This isn't on OP's radar, but Mastercam is pretty damn easy for multiple parts IMO. You can assign a work offset directly to wcs, or use transform and tick the box to "assign new" (or off, or use existing depending...).

 

[cameraman]

This isn't on OP's radar, but Mastercam is pretty damn easy for multiple parts IMO. You can assign a work offset directly to wcs, or use transform and tick the box to "assign new" (or off, or use existing depending...).

Thanks for chiming in with that also - I trialed MC a long time ago but much has changes since then.

I know for example you have mentioned essentially doing complex set ups 12 different set ups for one part , fixtures etc. instead of 5 axis modality / fewer set ups - I know you do both and much more besides.

In my case it will be more the 5 to 12 setups and in some cases on some on tilted work planes with tooling balls and other reference surfaces.

Obviously this can all be knitted together off-line with a separate code editor and then in future knitted back together for 5 axis in some cases. But having to have a zillion versions of the same part in CAM + fixtures and set ups - just wondering if there was a more "stock aware" forward flowing solution for tricky multiple set ups , ones that are not orthogonal and allow easy authoring / inclusion of probing sequences or even operator intervention with a DTI to check a setup to better determine position and location (between key set ups) ?

I know I'm overthinking this,

That's interesting what @GCoder_05 said about FeatureCAM as well as what @Locker said about Esprit's changes that can ripple through automatically (if you want) without having to rebuild from alternate versions in the "Tree".

I'm just trying to gauge how much I'm gonna have to hand code as the "Glue" to hold everything together lol.

If so cheaper options being fine rather than more expensive ones - not that a more specialized more expensive program wouldn't be bad if it is more useful for managing things ( all those subtle things that can creep in and then acreate(sp) to make your life hell, can't get there form here kind of thing versus something that functions more like an "Expert" system on my behalf or at least has lower level tools to make decent corrections and more subtle changes without loosing your mind.)

 

[Mike1974]

Thanks for chiming in with that also - I trialed MC a long time ago but much has changes since then.

I know for example you have mentioned essentially doing complex set ups 12 different set ups for one part , fixtures etc. instead of 5 axis modality / fewer set ups - I know you do both and much more besides.

In my case it will be more the 5 to 12 setups and in some cases on some on tilted work planes with tooling balls and other reference surfaces.

Obviously this can all be knitted together off-line with a separate code editor and then in future knitted back together for 5 axis in some cases. But having to have a zillion versions of the same part in CAM + fixtures and set ups - just wondering if there was a more "stock aware" forward flowing solution for tricky multiple set ups , ones that are not orthogonal and allow easy authoring / inclusion of probing sequences or even operator intervention with a DTI to check a setup to better determine position and location (between key set ups) ?

I know I'm overthinking this,

That's interesting what @GCoder_05 said about FeatureCAM as well as what @Locker said about Esprit's changes that can ripple through automatically (if you want) without having to rebuild from alternate versions in the "Tree".

I'm just trying to gauge how much I'm gonna have to hand code as the "Glue" to hold everything together lol.

If so cheaper options being fine rather than more expensive ones - not that a more specialized more expensive program wouldn't be bad if it is more useful for managing things ( all those subtle things that can creep in and then acreate(sp) to make your life hell, can't get there form here kind of thing versus something that functions more like an "Expert" system on my behalf or at least has lower level tools to make decent corrections and more subtle changes without loosing your mind.)

In MCX, the 5 axis paths suck (but I've not used anything newer than X9), but setup is a breeze, albeit using Haas dynamic work offsets, not sure about other machines but for MCX setting non-orthogonal planes it is a couple mouseclicks. I had (don't have 5 axis here at current job) it bound to my right mouse button. Right click-planes by solid face-select face. Don't need to orient x or y as the dynamic work offset takes care of that, at least on the UMC750 I ran. Also works well when importing into Camplete as it also takes care of x and y orientation, you just need Z correct.

 

[OVodov]

Planes in MasterCam are sucks. It's the one of stupidest things I hate the most there.
In every other software you would need one plane, in MC - 3 planes WCS, Tool plane and Compensation plane.
I had experience of 3 years using SolidCam. In this program planes are much easier to use.

 

[Mike1974]

Planes in MasterCam are sucks. It's the one of stupidest things I hate the most there.
In every other software you would need one plane, in MC - 3 planes WCS, Tool plane and Compensation plane.
I had experience of 3 years using SolidCam. In this program planes are much easier to use.

It's construction* plane, and you don't normally have to mess with them until you make a custome plane or view, even then once the wcs is set to the proper plane, you click the arrows between the next 2 and your done. And if 3 planes are hard to use for you....?

*edit it does say comp/construction plane, my bad, but the rest of it I stand behind.