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What's new

New Class 8 Electric truck

Trueturning

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Point being, an ICE car is just as likely to burn your house down as an EV

Utopian indeed

In the garage too? Perhaps yet I have seen cell phones from about two friends which exploded somewhat. Out of persons I know it is concerning. Neither caused fires. There are not that many in home chargers in use now. There is a lot to be learned through use. There are likely differences in quality from a home charging system vs a industrial quality charger.

Not a concern then realize that if it is a problem it will be discovered by the insurance companies through their risk assessments. On pretty much any new type trend and those things remain to be seen.

I know no one who is burning to buy one seriously. They are observing how this goes and figures things must have to cost less than it does today. You yourself project them becoming more affordable in the future. People can wait.
 

crickets

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
In the garage too? Perhaps yet I have seen cell phones from about two friends which exploded somewhat. Out of persons I know it is concerning. Neither caused fires. There are not that many in home chargers in use now. There is a lot to be learned through use. There are likely differences in quality from a home charging system vs a industrial quality charger.

What home/industrial chargers are you comparing ? EVs at home are charged by the on-board chargers, factory installed by the manufacturer of the vehicle.
 

Trueturning

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
What home/industrial chargers are you comparing ? EVs at home are charged by the on-board chargers, factory installed by the manufacturer of the vehicle.

So these on board chargers are retracted from the vehicle and plugged into the wall? It seemed as if there were chargers which required installation at home.

That sounds simple.

I was responding to different examples given by the ones who are looking forward to the home chargers. One poster mentioned a simple charger that operates on house current a plug into a wall home receptacle.

Others mentioned detachable lengths of cable that became something to keep with the vehicle or to prevent copper wire being stolen from publicly accessible charging stations.

A lot of change is in process. It is a big change.
 

crickets

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
So these on board chargers are retracted from the vehicle and plugged into the wall? It seemed as if there were chargers which required installation at home.

The charger remains in the vehicle. The thing that gets installed in the house is the dedicated circuit with some box and a J1772 plug which some people call a "charger", but it's not a charger. It's a smart 240VAC outlet. Charger is on board of the vehicle, and converts 240VAC to whatever DC voltage needed for the battery. The purpose of the J1772 is to inform the vehicle's charger about the size of the circuit it's connected to, nothing else.


One poster mentioned a simple charger that operates on house current a plug into a wall home receptacle.

Onboard chargers are typically designed to work with both 120 and 240 VAC input, as well as a certain range of currents. Some vehicles have a dedicated 120VAC inlet while others use 120VAC to J1772 adapter.
 

crazygoat

Stainless
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
AS a side note, I really hate smart chargers for my cars. I don't care if it thinks it is a bad battery, it isn't a bad battery and now my battery didn't charge overnight. Starting to think an old fashioned charger with a light timer might be less frustrating

I agree 100%. Those things suck big time.
 

gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
LOL! I hope you were just dumbing it down for the general public...

Shrug

IF they had invented Lion batteries in the 60s when electronics actually cost money, pretty sure they would have slow, inefficient , simple charging strategies that didn't involve transistors. And lots of stories about how people blew up their batteries by putting them on a big car charger
 

crickets

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Shrug

IF they had invented Lion batteries in the 60s when electronics actually cost money, pretty sure they would have slow, inefficient , simple charging strategies that didn't involve transistors. And lots of stories about how people blew up their batteries by putting them on a big car charger

Well, you first said "microchips", probably meaning digital electronics. Transistors started in the 60's, and if Lithium batteries were invented back then, chargers with automatic cutoff and even simple battery management systems would be made for them just fine. Now the thing is the motivation to invent better batteries didn't exist at the time - no cellphones or laptops. On absolute scale charging Lithium batteries is a lot simpler than Lead-Acid. For example, one of my battery packs is charged using an industrial power supply - literally just a source of DC at constant voltage and current.
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
Same batteries, no magic. Charging voltage from the DC charging station has to match the maximum voltage of the battery pack, which is a product of topology (cells in series) and chemistry (nominal voltage of a cell is dictated by chemistry). Some vehicles with 800V battery packs use one of the two tricks to ensure compatibility with the 400V charging stations - DC-DC converters and pack reorganization. If I remember correctly Porsche Taycan uses a DC-DC - it negotiates a some 400v output from the CCS charging station, then uses onboard DC-DC to step it up to 800V expected by the battery pack. Issue with such solution is added weight/cost and also potential current bottleneck for the charging.

Another solution was to use multiple contactors in the battery pack for charging - contactor in the middle of the pack breaks the 800V pack into two 400V ones, then the two get paralleled and charged from the 400V charging station at whatever exact voltage needed. That's a decent solution, given contactors are reliable and fairly inexpensive.

Thanks, I had no idea the battery packs were that high voltage, so obviously the car has a step down transformer in it. How many different voltages do the car's components operate on?
 

crazygoat

Stainless
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
I've been looking for one of those for awhile now. I don't care what anyone says, battery chargers do not need to be smart! I have 3 "smart" chargers and none of them ever work right.

A week ago I picked up a non smart charger off of c/l for 40 bucks. I ask the guy when you touch the + cable end to the - cable end if you get a spark. He said he didn't know. I told him I would come check it out and if I saw a spark I would take it. I was pretty sure it was what I wanted because it had a meter instead of lights on it. Score one foe me!
 

crickets

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Thanks, I had no idea the battery packs were that high voltage, so obviously the car has a step down transformer in it. How many different voltages do the car's components operate on?

Traction is on high voltage, so whether the pack is 400V or 800V, that voltage goes straight to the inverter for the 3 phase feed into the motor. They have normal automotive accessories at 12V, so there are typically DC-DC converters that step it down from HV to 12V, and often there is also an auxiliary 12V battery. Since it's all DC, you can't just use a transformer for stepping things up or down - transformers only work with AC.
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
Traction is on high voltage, so whether the pack is 400V or 800V, that voltage goes straight to the inverter for the 3 phase feed into the motor. They have normal automotive accessories at 12V, so there are typically DC-DC converters that step it down from HV to 12V, and often there is also an auxiliary 12V battery. Since it's all DC, you can't just use a transformer for stepping things up or down - transformers only work with AC.

My DC electric knowledge on vehicles is limited, no problem admitting that.
 

Trueturning

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
5/8 fire code sheetrock and a fire door to the garage as code requirements existed long before EVs were mainstream

Well that sounds good. I was not aware of such coding. Is it country wide? I know these incidents are rather rare it is true yet there are real experiences.

Edit; I put in the wrong link previously. Apologies.
New one and my intended link. About a safety concern.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/08/04/tesla-fire/

Being this is early in the switching movement to EV’s which is still young I think there are a lot of things which can settle down before many begin paying for them.

It is rather set up to pressure the fossil fuel industry if the changes signed into law under the current admin were not hobbling the industry then why make the changes? So that we buy it instead at higher prices and subject ourselves even by extension worrying about our Allies who ran to enemies for the resource?

Now there is a dang war going on energy plays prominently despite warnings about dependency of Russian energy. We are rather in twined even before that with Europes energy needs and our own deficiency played a large role also.

One should never be blind to stories like the ones in the above article.
 
Last edited:

Ries

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Location
Edison Washington USA
Thanks, I had no idea the battery packs were that high voltage, so obviously the car has a step down transformer in it. How many different voltages do the car's components operate on?
Many electric cars, including my wife’s beemer, have two electrical systems- hers has one 360 volt system for the drive motors, and then a normal 12 volt car battery and 12 volt system to run things like the radio. It charges at either 120 or 240- the internal charger can handle either. I think this dual voltage approach is common. Lots of off the shelf 12 volt parts, only the drive motors are 360.
 

Ries

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Location
Edison Washington USA
Well that sounds good. I was not aware of such coding. Is it country wide? I know these incidents are rather rare it is true yet there are real experiences.

What One Million COVID Dead Mean for the U.S.'s Future - Scientific American

Being this is early in the switching movement to EV’s which is still young I think there are a lot of things which can settle down before many begin paying for them.

It is rather set up to pressure the fossil fuel industry if the changes signed into law under the current admin were not hobbling the industry then why make the changes? So that we buy it instead at higher prices and subject ourselves even by extension worrying about our Allies who ran to enemies for the resource?

Now there is a dang war going on energy plays prominently despite warnings about dependency of Russian energy. We are rather in twined even before that with Europes energy needs and our own deficiency played a large role also.

One should never be blind to stories like the ones like in the above article.

i guess you have never built a house- these garage rules have been in most building codes since the 80s, probably longer. More and more, electric vehicles are cheaper, not more expensive as you seem to think. My wife paid under $25 k for her late model low mileage electric, and at the time, almost 4 years ago now, that was cheaper than many similar toyota or honda used cars tha were equivalent. Then electricity is cheaper per mile here than gas. Fewer repairs, no oil changes- it’s cheaper all around in our case. And prices for electric vehicles are coming down every year versus ice.
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
Many electric cars, including my wife’s beemer, have two electrical systems- hers has one 360 volt system for the drive motors, and then a normal 12 volt car battery and 12 volt system to run things like the radio. It charges at either 120 or 240- the internal charger can handle either. I think this dual voltage approach is common. Lots of off the shelf 12 volt parts, only the drive motors are 360.

Thanks for the info. So the voltage system is split, do they have a 12 volt battery and an alternator feeding it 13-14 volts, to run accessories? It is nice to learn off actual educated owners.
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
i guess you have never built a house- these garage rules have been in most building codes since the 80s, probably longer. More and more, electric vehicles are cheaper, not more expensive as you seem to think. My wife paid under $25 k for her late model low mileage electric, and at the time, almost 4 years ago now, that was cheaper than many similar toyota or honda used cars tha were equivalent. Then electricity is cheaper per mile here than gas. Fewer repairs, no oil changes- it’s cheaper all around in our case. And prices for electric vehicles are coming down every year versus ice.

I think that has to vary by locale. My shop is small now, just 1,000 square feet, where I moved to for downsizing, and to become a one man band. The shop is just an over sized stick built garage. Open walls, no drywall, permitted built in 2002, well before I got here.
 

BoxcarPete

Stainless
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Location
Michigan, USA
Thanks for the info. So the voltage system is split, do they have a 12 volt battery and an alternator feeding it 13-14 volts, to run accessories? It is nice to learn off actual educated owners.

DC-DC converter, it's not an alternator but solid-state circuitry to output the proper voltage. I worked on the low voltage power distribution system for the Chevy Bolt and they ran it all through the exact same spec as a regular passenger car. Yes, it had a 12V battery and fused links to all the usual suspects.
 

Trueturning

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
i guess you have never built a house- these garage rules have been in most building codes since the 80s, probably longer. More and more, electric vehicles are cheaper, not more expensive as you seem to think. My wife paid under $25 k for her late model low mileage electric, and at the time, almost 4 years ago now, that was cheaper than many similar toyota or honda used cars tha were equivalent. Then electricity is cheaper per mile here than gas. Fewer repairs, no oil changes- it’s cheaper all around in our case. And prices for electric vehicles are coming down every year versus ice.

That is good to know.

Thanks Gus for that information.

Ries I have built houses framed out and electricians licensed ones wired it. It was a farm house which had no garage. Very nice I worked for the builder for two months on site for my sister. They would have loved goo solar panels this was 1975. :)

New things of such predicted importance which are to help save the world will draw questions and draw sites and concerns. I do not know how anyone who is a promoter or investor would talk past reasonable concerns by giving out technical salads.

Should this be of concern for anyone considering a EV or are they just supposed to trust what someone says about new tech?

Selling jobs are going on surrounding these and I see it. Feel free.

Would anyone address this concern? VVVVV-below.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/08/04/tesla-fire/

What do you think about concerns around this article. Some persons have their daughter or son living over the garage. Why avoid addressing a valid concern?
 








 
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