New clear Blaser Synergy 735 coolant?

[SRT Mike]

I started running the 735 in my new machine when I bought it in November. It runs a grease system so not having way oil contamination issues it seemed like an easy time to try it and didn’t require a full machine cleanout. Have not seen any issues with paint, not experiencing the globing issues people are talking about. When I come in in the morning basically everything is dry with a light film in areas where it puddled. I’m not using RO water but we are on a well with a very good filtration system. I bought the $200 amazon thing and it’s basically useless so I haven’t been bothering.

Pros: - being able to see in the sump is great. It is fully clear and you can see the fines.
- inside of the machine stays very clean
- very easy to see through the windows while proofing out a part.
- rinses off parts, hands, etc, very easily

Cons: - definitely has a strong smell. It mellows out after a week but when it’s fresh it’s pretty intense and kind of acrid. Happens anytime you recharge with fresh coolant.
- Expeeeeeeeeensive. I’m a fairly low volume user and in the grand scheme of things coolant is very cheap for what it provides. But still, lots of money.

Very interesting about your experience with Blaser 735. When the rep came here, he took a sample of my water for free testing. Here were my results:

pH = 6.7
Specific conductivity (should be < 1.00 mS/cm) = 0.02
Magnesium = 0
Calcium = 0
Hardness XRF = 0
Chloride (<40ppm) = 4
Sulfate (<40ppm) = 4
Nitrite (<20ppm) = 0
Nitrate (<50ppm) = 0

I really don't know much about water chemistry, but there must be something in water that doesn't go well with 735. I asked my rep how critical DI/RO water was and he said it won't break the product using tap water, but there's a high chance of issues. I wonder if whatever is in your well water stops the globbing issue. Next time you talk to your rep - might want to ask about that, just in case the non-globbing might also be causing some other negative side effect?



Oh and question for anyone who knows anything about this stuff... another coolant rep said the 735 is essentially a full synthetic and that's why it's eating paint. Blaser rep said not true, it is NOT a full synthetic. I don't know enough to know whose right... so is 735 full synthetic or not? Also, Blaser guy told me something about 735 being natural gas based (or some other hydrocarbon, maybe I got it wrong) and that's why it is clear. The other rep laughed and said that's total bullshit and that clear coolant has been known about for years, but nobody put it into production because the stuff they use to add lubricity cannot be clear. Blaser claims the clear lubricity stuff is their secret sauce.

Whose right and wrong?

 

[Kapster]

I spoke with a Blaser rep a month or so ago at a show about the synergy, I pretty much lost interest after that. He really stressed how you have to get ALL the old coolant out or it will cloud up the blaser. I feel I'm pretty meticulous and still think this would be a nightmare, I think you could rinse your system several times and still find some leftover coolant hiding in a corner. He acted like DI water was a requirement. I also remember him mentioning materials you cant cut with it, cast iron and was thinking something else? We don't normally cut cast iron but you never know.

The local people I buy from have Trim 585XT, 690XT, E206 and lots of Blaser stuff. I asked him if he could ask the people that buy the 585 if they notice any odor at all. All he said was "only one guy complained and he wasn't using it right" which doesn't help me, and kind of annoyed me because I've been buying from them for 20+ years now and I'm having an issue and could use some support from them. My operator is apparently sensitive to certain smells. I've used E206 and it's fine but I wanted the bacteria resistance of the semi synthetics. I asked him if I could get a sample of Trim or Blaser, even a small amount so I could make a pail and see what the odor is like. "No, they don't do that" he says. I just scrubbed my tanks out to switch to Qualichem and I'll do it again to make the operator happy but I sure as hell don't want to do it a third time.

We used to use 685 and now use 690xt. Had a lot of problems with 585, 690xt is much better but nothing seems perfect. It does have a mild scent, we use mist collectors and can hardly smell it with them on.

685 had a lot of rust issues for us, 690xt will still rust some but nowhere near as bad as 585. I put lps3 under vises and very little rust after months in the machine. 685, even with lps3, was a mess every time I'd take a vise out.

685 would foam up, 690xt seems to handle this much better.

No bacteria issues ever, with either coolant.

690xt lasts very well, even if the machine has weeks of downtime. Our machines don't get ran all day everyday, its no problem to go a year to 1-1/2 years on a tank. We actually just changed one that was 4 yrs old, I couldn't stand it but the guy that runs it didn't care. Even that was no stink, it just gets thicker the older it gets.

690xt is good enough that its hard to try anything else.

 

[SND]

I ran 690XT in the mill for a couple years, tried it in the new lathe but it foamed awful bad, impossible to run the machine with it. Switched both machines to Fuchs, much better, almost zero smell, foam problem gone, even easier on the hands, the 690XT had some smell mostly the first few days on a new batch.
Never had any rust with the 690xt, and so far I've not noticed any with the Fuchs I'm running either.

 

[Bubba73]

I know you're not replying to me, but one thing just to add is that I wouldn't say the 735 is total shit. Not that you said it was... just don't want that to be the vibe on this thread.

I also talked to Mike from Blaser at the Eastec show yesterday and he said the reformulated Blaser 735 has already been in production for a short while (maybe a week or two?) and shipments have started to go out to customers... but since it's just an updated version and not a replacement, vendors may still have stock on the older version so it may be some more weeks before customers are reliably getting version 2 from their vendors.

Why would any company continue to let a distributor sell a product they know is a problem? 735 Does leave a good finish.
However it's not worth the other problems it comes with. I don't have any faith the new version will be any better.
How can I when they continue to sell a product with a problem.

 

[bosmos_j]

My operator is apparently sensitive to certain smells.

I vent air from my machine outside the shop. I have a return line from outside so the suction created pulls in outside air instead of air conditioner air. It's fairly well sealed up when the machine door is closed. When open, it pulls some air from the room, but I don't run it for long periods like that. I don't hardly smell the coolant which is better than when I started and the whole shop seemed to be saturated with the smell. I started getting a cough, so got religious pretty quick. I probably lose a little more to evaporation this way. I have it on a button at the machine, so I only run it when needed. Just a thought you might consider.

 

[Volitan]

I talked to a guy yesterday at Eastec from Qualichem - super nice guy and my BS detector did not go off at all. He was a wealth of information and talked and pro's and con's of their coolants. You might ask Qualichem who that guy is (seemed to be in his 30's and IIRC brownish/ginger hair and I think a beard). Straight shooter.

Another option - my Qualichem rep is top notch - Wayne Rousseau. He sells other brands as well and is more of a fellow machinist who stops by to help rather than a salesman. He has zero salesman BS about him. His email is mhrnorth - at - yahoo - dot - com. Even if he isn't your local guy, he will steer you right.. he knows all about additives, coolant perfumes and sells other stuff besides Qualichem so isn't shilling their stuff.

Another option - one thing I liked about Blaser BlasoCut 2000 was that it smelled nice. I know exactly the smell you're talking about with Qualichem... just kind of... chemical and slightly off-putting. Blaser 2000 smelled nice, hard to describe but it's good and it was a pretty good coolant too. I don't use it anymore, but the shop next door does.. if you want to smell test it, shoot me a PM and I'll get a little bottle of the stuff and send you and you can mix it up and see if your employee is OK with it.

That is really nice of you, thanks for the offer!

I shouldn't say they all suck. Was just having a Midol Moment at the thought of cleaning out the machines again for another product I'm unsure of.
And they aren't actually coolant salesmen, they're cutting tool salesman that sell coolant. I looked up they guy you mentioned and it looks like all he does is sell coolant. He must know his stuff. I'm going to reach out to him.

Thanks again!

 

[SND]

I vent air from my machine outside the shop. I have a return line from outside so the suction created pulls in outside air instead of air conditioner air. It's fairly well sealed up when the machine door is closed. When open, it pulls some air from the room, but I don't run it for long periods like that. I don't hardly smell the coolant which is better than when I started and the whole shop seemed to be saturated with the smell. I started getting a cough, so got religious pretty quick. I probably lose a little more to evaporation this way. I have it on a button at the machine, so I only run it when needed. Just a thought you might consider.

I piped my 2 cnc's through a heat recovery ventilator(HRV) Works pretty good even when roughing a lot of stainless on the lathe, mist doesn't get into the shop, other nice thing is the good HRV's are well made and able to handle moisture and good sealed fan motors. Less heat/cooling loss from the air.
It's working good so far anyhow, but less smelly/healthier coolant sure has its place too.

 

[Wiley QualiChem]

I talked to a guy yesterday at Eastec from Qualichem - super nice guy and my BS detector did not go off at all. He was a wealth of information and talked and pro's and con's of their coolants. You might ask Qualichem who that guy is (seemed to be in his 30's and IIRC brownish/ginger hair and I think a beard). Straight shooter.

Thank for the compliment about our New England crew. Tyler Helsor ([email protected]) is probably the gentleman whom you met at Eastec. Wayne Rousseau from MHR is one of our best distributors.

 

[reaper2788]

what is the brix and why is the tech specs so hard to find

 

[SRT Mike]

I am glad this thread got bumped.

Reaper: The refractometer factor is 1.4, and the target Brix is 5% to 8%.

Has anyone gotten the "new" Synergy 735? I bought another pail but I don't know if it's the newer stuff - how do you tell? Is there something on the label?

Also, I *still* have not yet received my free 5-gallon pail of Synergy 735. I will need to rustle the salesman a bit, but the machine came to my floor March 1st, and now it's 4.5 months later waiting for my free pail of Synergy. On the other hand, I told them to just send me the new stuff, but I also did fill out all the paperwork they asked for (i.e. get a certificate signed by the MTB proving I did buy a new machine), so it's not like I just called 'em up and asked for some free shit.

 

[metalmadness]

My old Blaser fluid keeps getting totally f-ed up and I am sick of having smelly shit coolant and cleaning my sumps ever 4 months. I decided to give the Blaser Synergy 735 a try. About to install a De-Ionizing system in our shop and we will be putting it in today. Only one machine is prepped for charging, but we will see how it goes. DI systems aren't cheap, but I can't imagine it isn't a good investment with any type of coolant. I will respond back after a few weeks of usage. The machine cleaning process required a lot of work, and hopefully it doesn't cloud up badly, as there will always be old fluid hiding in nooks and crannies... These machines are only 2 years old and in pristine condition, so hopefully that will help with that.

But I love the idea of Synergy 735. The reality is we will see how it pans out.

 

[metalmadness]

I am glad this thread got bumped.

Reaper: The refractometer factor is 1.4, and the target Brix is 5% to 8%.

Has anyone gotten the "new" Synergy 735? I bought another pail but I don't know if it's the newer stuff - how do you tell? Is there something on the label?

Also, I *still* have not yet received my free 5-gallon pail of Synergy 735. I will need to rustle the salesman a bit, but the machine came to my floor March 1st, and now it's 4.5 months later waiting for my free pail of Synergy. On the other hand, I told them to just send me the new stuff, but I also did fill out all the paperwork they asked for (i.e. get a certificate signed by the MTB proving I did buy a new machine), so it's not like I just called 'em up and asked for some free shit.

I will respond after i get mine installed today if it is the "new" formula

 

[kazlx]

I will respond after i get mine installed today if it is the "new" formula

I’ve been using the 735 for months now (since November). I use RO water, a NexJen skimmer and a fish tank aerator. I haven’t had any problems and still looks just as good as the day I charged it.

 

[Fal Grunt]

My old Blaser fluid keeps getting totally f-ed up and I am sick of having smelly shit coolant and cleaning my sumps ever 4 months. I decided to give the Blaser Synergy 735 a try. About to install a De-Ionizing system in our shop and we will be putting it in today. Only one machine is prepped for charging, but we will see how it goes. DI systems aren't cheap, but I can't imagine it isn't a good investment with any type of coolant. I will respond back after a few weeks of usage. The machine cleaning process required a lot of work, and hopefully it doesn't cloud up badly, as there will always be old fluid hiding in nooks and crannies... These machines are only 2 years old and in pristine condition, so hopefully that will help with that.

But I love the idea of Synergy 735. The reality is we will see how it pans out.

Please keep us updated. I will be looking to remove the Blaser coolant I have this fall and replace it with something else.

 

[metalmadness]

Please keep us updated. I will be looking to remove the Blaser coolant I have this fall and replace it with something else.

I got all of my machines charged up, even with a tiny bit of old coolant in the lines (Blaser B-Cool) it is running almost like water in terms of clarity. I did clean out the sumps extremely well, however. It smells kind of like a fiberglass cast you get when you break a bone, but its pretty mild. I am running some 6061 plates in the machine right now and it seems to be just fine!

Obviously we will see in time how it goes, but so far so good. The de-ionizing unit was pretty easy to install in our water main. The rep said that he has seen people running non-DI water before but that it leaves you open to critical failure with this particular fluid. Also, the fluid I received was manufactured in January 2019

Edit: our PH is a little on the high side, but that should balance out. The Brix readout is 5-5.5 which puts the fluid concentration around 7-8%...probably going to bump that up just a hair at some point.

 

[DavidScott]

I’ve been using the 735 for months now (since November). I use RO water, a NexJen skimmer and a fish tank aerator. I haven’t had any problems and still looks just as good as the day I charged it.

How much tramp oil do you remove a month? I ask because I have basically the same system but I am on a box way mill that spews a lot of tramp oil. I use Trim C320 which is a full synthetic and when fresh it is clear but on my machine it goes cloudy in a few days because it emulsifies the tramp oil. On a greased machine it was clear a year later. I would really like to find a good aluminum coolant that totally rejects the tramp oil and wondering if 735 might be it.

 

[metalmadness]

How much tramp oil do you remove a month? I ask because I have basically the same system but I am on a box way mill that spews a lot of tramp oil. I use Trim C320 which is a full synthetic and when fresh it is clear but on my machine it goes cloudy in a few days because it emulsifies the tramp oil. On a greased machine it was clear a year later. I would really like to find a good aluminum coolant that totally rejects the tramp oil and wondering if 735 might be it.

I have always used Vactra No.2 but my rep actually hooked me up with a clear way oil with the 735. Waiting on delivery but he basically said it is like Vactra (ISO VG 68) but has been refined to pull out the solids and color which can cause issues.

He also said that because 735 is full synthetic, it will reject any oil that is not miscible with water.

 

[greggv]

I use and love Rustlick Aero. No coolant maintenance, no smell, no film, no paint problems, just works! It is a greased machine, but when I used it on my old machine it would soak up the way oil, so I'd change it every once in a while, just because.I'm not interested in changing.

 

[DavidScott]

I have always used Vactra No.2 but my rep actually hooked me up with a clear way oil with the 735. Waiting on delivery but he basically said it is like Vactra (ISO VG 68) but has been refined to pull out the solids and color which can cause issues.

He also said that because 735 is full synthetic, it will reject any oil that is not miscible with water.

I would be interested in more info on the way oil. I am using Vactra#2 now but am open to switching. I used a clear full synthetic way oil I was getting from Western 15-18 years ago that was incredible. After a few months of use, the lube lines looked like new, the brown color was totally gone. Unfortunately, the manufacturer had terrible QC problems and got dropped.

 

[metalmadness]

I would be interested in more info on the way oil. I am using Vactra#2 now but am open to switching. I used a clear full synthetic way oil I was getting from Western 15-18 years ago that was incredible. After a few months of use, the lube lines looked like new, the brown color was totally gone. Unfortunately, the manufacturer had terrible QC problems and got dropped.

I should have it this week and I can add a photo of the product to this thread so everyone can take a look.

My rep claims that skimming (with a skimmer) isn't even necessary, simply put an absorbent pad into the sump once a week to clean it off the top. Also, you just add it to your current pump, no need to drain the old way oil. Eventually it will clear out. Even with my pumps at minimum, it still pumps too much oil and you can see it pooling sometimes. Maintenance found no leaks whatsoever, so I look forward to trying this out. I think it runs about $100 a 5gallon pail, so it is a bit cheaper than Vactra.