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New Electrical Vehicle manufacturer VinFast to locate in North Carolina U.S.A.

The extra weight is largely for crash reinforcement but also partly due to the extra equipment that is so common on modern vehicles. The emissions hardware adds weight, the more elaborate entertainment systems add weight, and other things like power everything add weight.

Most of the classic sports cars would fail miserably at today's safety tests.

Bigger bigger biggerer


I had an 84 Accord that IIRC weighed less than 2500 pounds, but it is smaller than the newer Civics

And it had real 5mph bumpers unlike new cars

I think airbags and electronics add a non zero amount, but it is not the 500 pounds+ that we see.

Crashworthiness is, however, another thing. That I believe has added some heft.

And NVH[noise vibration harshness] has added a bunch. modern cars are quieter than older luxury cars, and you cannot get quiet without weight. Aluminum engines are louder, and even if they are aluminum, they have full cradle mains that weigh more.


8 speed autos weigh more.
 
Bigger bigger biggerer


I had an 84 Accord that IIRC weighed less than 2500 pounds, but it is smaller than the newer Civics

And it had real 5mph bumpers unlike new cars

I think airbags and electronics add a non zero amount, but it is not the 500 pounds+ that we see.

Crashworthiness is, however, another thing. That I believe has added some heft.

And NVH[noise vibration harshness] has added a bunch. modern cars are quieter than older luxury cars, and you cannot get quiet without weight. Aluminum engines are louder, and even if they are aluminum, they have full cradle mains that weigh more.


8 speed autos weigh more.

I think the extra weight comes from more than just reinforcements for safety. Add up the weight of power windows, power seats, power lift gates, extra sensors, extra control units, extra wiring, multiple speakers with heavy magnets, high power audio amps and the extra sound deadening required and you are talking serious weight vs the old cars. Individually they may not seem that heavy but if you threw them all in a box .....................

Also, modern vehicles have a lot of plastic covers, not only in the engine compartment but also underneath the chassis for streamlining. Years ago when you looked in an engine compartment you could see the engine, accessories, battery, etc. Today if you lift the hood it doesn't even look mechanical with covers over everything.
 
I think the extra weight comes from more than just reinforcements for safety. Add up the weight of power windows, power seats, power lift gates, extra sensors, extra control units, extra wiring, multiple speakers with heavy magnets, high power audio amps and the extra sound deadening required and you are talking serious weight vs the old cars. Individually they may not seem that heavy but if you threw them all in a box .....................

Also, modern vehicles have a lot of plastic covers, not only in the engine compartment but also underneath the chassis for streamlining. Years ago when you looked in an engine compartment you could see the engine, accessories, battery, etc. Today if you lift the hood it doesn't even look mechanical with covers over everything.

Funny thing

power windows can be lighter than hand cranks

power window has new lightweight motor[unlike the 60s chevy ones, OMG]

the entire mechanism can be designed with a set amount of torque rather than 350 pound uncle Joe needing the rapid traverse the window when it is covered in ice.

especially when they no longer design it to have hand cranks at all



Waiting for the day when some kid looks at me puzzled when I give him the roll down your window hand motion......
 
I am inherently suspicious of a company that spends hundreds of millions to build a cell phone factory, pledging to become a global player, then shuts it two years later. Smells like money laundering to me.
 
(snip)
Waiting for the day when some kid looks at me puzzled when I give him the roll down your window hand motion......

Ever notice that many popular "save" icons are still a floppy disk? And that we "dial" a phone number?

Anyway, somewhat on-topic for the thread: I'm interested in an EV next time around, but it needs to be a SUV-type vehicle that can carry largish square boxes, which is the equipment I need to transport for my business. And the compartment they're carried in has to be climate controlled and secure. And I'd prefer it didn't look like a spaceship. Rivian is in the running, but pricey. They all will be at first. Chevy has their pickups -- waiting for the Tahoe/Suburban. A Ford Flex EV would have been great, but it's gone now. More options are always good.
 
Ford Escape would have been a good fit but they changed the body. Now it looks like most lady handbag suv's with a sloping rear that eliminates the ability to carry stuff.
Bill D
 
I am inherently suspicious of a company that spends hundreds of millions to build a cell phone factory, pledging to become a global player, then shuts it two years later. Smells like money laundering to me.

I got involved with money laundering when I was younger.

The coins came out alright but the bills got wrinkly. :D
 
Ford Escape would have been a good fit but they changed the body. Now it looks like most lady handbag suv's with a sloping rear that eliminates the ability to carry stuff.
Bill D

The other issue with buying an SUV today is that it is often near impossible to find actual cargo area dimensions. generally all an online search will find is cubic feet when what you really want is usable height, width, and depth.
 
The USA has become a favored place for money laundering in the last decade or two, particularly thru real estate and companies, by russians and chinese, who want to shelter their money out of their home countries. A battery factory would not be an unlikely way of doing this.
The amount of real estate, in weird places like South Dakota, or Florida, that is being bought for high prices by mysterious offshore shell companies is amazing these days.
How South Dakota Became a Haven for Dirty Money - The Atlantic

These guys definitely have a LOT of money. Unclear where it came from.
They built a gigantic factory in Vietnam in 2017, and are already making cars there.
Story | VinFast

But its still weird that they built a large company, and factories to make and sell smart phones in 2018, and now, 4 years later, have pulled the plug on it.
Who can afford to do that?
https://e.vnexpress.net/news/busine...down-smartphone-tv-manufacturing-4275318.html
It is true that they grossed a billion dollars last quarter- they are a real company.
 
The USA has become a favored place for money laundering in the last decade or two, particularly thru real estate and companies, by russians and chinese, who want to shelter their money out of their home countries. A battery factory would not be an unlikely way of doing this.
The amount of real estate, in weird places like South Dakota, or Florida, that is being bought for high prices by mysterious offshore shell companies is amazing these days.
How South Dakota Became a Haven for Dirty Money - The Atlantic

These guys definitely have a LOT of money. Unclear where it came from.
They built a gigantic factory in Vietnam in 2017, and are already making cars there.
Story | VinFast

But its still weird that they built a large company, and factories to make and sell smart phones in 2018, and now, 4 years later, have pulled the plug on it.
Who can afford to do that?
https://e.vnexpress.net/news/busine...wn-wesmartphone-tv-manufacturing-4275318.html
It is true that they grossed a billion dollars last quarter- they are a real company.

Maybe the incentives the countries provide them are the laundering part of the equation ?
We have been hearing of outlandish incentives offered by states and countries to attract business's for 30 year or more now.
 
Maybe the incentives the countries provide them are the laundering part of the equation ?
We have been hearing of outlandish incentives offered by states and countries to attract business's for 30 year or more now.

If you read the article about South Dakota, its mostly because the government looks the other way about where the money comes from. If you or I deposit ten grand, the feds get notified. If Putins buddy buys a building for ten million, its fine as long as he does it thru a shell company.
These guys actually dont mind losing 10 percent on the deal, and even paying property taxes- its much less than they would lose if the money stayed at home in Russia.
Somewhere between $400 Billion and a Trillion in "anonymous" money is parked in South Dakota alone.

Its absolutely true, though, that the Chinese, the Indonesians, Thais, and Vietnamese have not been afraid to roll their sleeves up and buy actual factories in the USA, and build things for money. The big driveline plant in Belleville Mi was sold by Ford to Wanxiang over ten years ago, for real money, and the chinese are still happily making drivelines there.
After all, after China, we are the largest auto market in the world. Well, after China and the EU. Still, there is money to be made here if you dont mind actually making things.
 
No matter the real story ..
tax credits and offsets can easily be more than the cost of the factory and startup .. which was later sold of course.

And the parent company may often be able to write off the total or nominal value of some parts, where the tax credits become "net tax savings".

Almost-all us nasdaq top 100 it firms do things like this via subsidiaries in ireland, luxemburg, et al.

I think carrier the air-con co. moved several hundred jobs to mexico, after trump touted saving jobs and a plant.
At a cost to us taxpayers of about 215.000$ per job.

VinFast really making EV batteries or EV components in the US is a great benefit to the US -- if it actually happens.
It´s also a benefit to the rest of the world and likely to bring endless other logistics / sales / long tail jobs with it if the project succeeds.

For the last 10-12 years I have closely followed tsla and their ev tech - vfds/inverters/heat pumps/motors/efficiencies/cogs/Q13s/lions/everything.
I´ve seen about 50 announcements by major autos and by newbie entrants -- but exactly zero significant tech in vfds, power electronics, drive motors, or excellent motive battery production in scale.

Nissan recently announced upto 14 B $ in electrified EV investments and batteries.
Over 7 years.
That is spitting in the wind.

It is quite difficult to make a good lion battery for motive aka car use -- of good longevity, high peak discharge, high charge.
It is very difficult to do so efficiently, aka cheap production costs, while maintaining the premium characteristics.

So far, tsla is the only company in the world who has sold and supported large automotive batteries, with high peak discharge (aka high acceleration), high recharge, and high longevity, in any quantity.

The Tsla lesson.
1. EVs need large batteries, so they are mostly lo-discharged 90% of the time.
2. Large batteries are much easier to charge and discharge with great longevity.
3. Thermal management of batteries is critical.
4. Excellent VFDs and chargers and motors and sw are critical.

In 2022 VW has started selling real numbers of their ID3, maybe ID4 platforms.
The Ioniq is also technically, by specs, pretty good.
Will their batteries last ?
Do they have fast home charging ?
What is the longevity of their drive units ? and battery cooling // heating ?
Battery warranty ?
I today tried to buy an Ioniq, and none of the info was easily available.

It is possible that VW, Ioniq, and/or others start to deliver excellent cars, hopefully in the mid range segment rather than the tesla premium segment.
This is also likely, from some manufacturer sooner or later, and what tsla is looking for.

Battery manufacturers from new entrants, like the scandinavian one, have maybe 1% chance of being commercially viable.
They may be commercially successful, for a time, based on (swedish) government largesse.
This means my taxes being spent to support flimflam artists.

Why is this enterprise better in cogs than byd, pana, or tsla, and able to scale as fast or better ?
Have they ever produced a proven motive battery in scale ?
What is their supply chain like ?
What proven expertise do they have in the critical power electronics part of an EV ?

The auto majors have failed to address all 5 issues above for 14 years.
This allowed tsla to become the best and more importantly most valuable auto company.
Now, tsla can simply buy anything it wants for 1B$/piece and not notice it.
 
This allowed tsla to become the best and more importantly most valuable auto company.

Is there a reason you refuse to spell TESLA properly?

In your all of your posts, you consistently spell it wrong, why is that?

Just asking.
 
If you read the article about South Dakota, its mostly because the government looks the other way about where the money comes from. If you or I deposit ten grand, the feds get notified. If Putins buddy buys a building for ten million, its fine as long as he does it thru a shell company.
These guys actually dont mind losing 10 percent on the deal, and even paying property taxes- its much less than they would lose if the money stayed at home in Russia.
Somewhere between $400 Billion and a Trillion in "anonymous" money is parked in South Dakota alone.

Its absolutely true, though, that the Chinese, the Indonesians, Thais, and Vietnamese have not been afraid to roll their sleeves up and buy actual factories in the USA, and build things for money..

Money like this can be found going to places where legitimate businesses are growing. The dirty money competes with the non dirty money for business opportunities.

“ Its absolutely true, though, that the Chinese, the Indonesians, Thais, and Vietnamese have not been afraid to roll their sleeves up and buy actual factories in the USA, and build things for money. ”

With China for the last three decades quite a lot of money flowed there from the United States and other western countries. No doubt given the devastation of the middle class and of American manufacturing all of that investment and joint ventures would also include clean and dirty money.

So no surprise that it grows and comes back. Once the high mark is reached likely it will leave to go back or to some other acceptable environment.

Consider the most reprehensible players amassing vast wealth and we know it gets put to work. The Cartels have massive amounts of wealth and right now are directly involved on the Southern border with Mexico. This kind of money finds its way into more mainstream businesses. They like using the bad money to start respectable businesses.

The laws are written in a certain way and likely have been to make possible such financing and investments. Since it brings so much investment one wonders where the great motivation comes from to stop it if even possible as if it comes from another country then obviously that country did not stop it.

Interesting points sure. There is a large focus on the United States here as usual. It was pointed out about how railroad investors harmed the public and the robber Barron’s who did it. It ignores the vast benefits of the railroads and the way the government incentivized the building of those railroads.
 
Not sure what you're so mad about.

We won.

We turned them Capitalist. They're now an enemy of China. And they're investing here.

It's horrible that we lost so many American lives there, but maybe we should have thought a little more before jumping in after the French left.

Actually no, we didn't turn them capitalist. They are still officially a communist state under one-party rule but as this official Vietnam webpage says "Vietnam, like other communist countries, has to adopt some capitalist principles to survive".

Is Vietnam one of countries remaining communism in the world?

In other words while communism may work as a political system it is inferior to capitalism as an economic system and must use part of capitalism to stay solvent.
 








 
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