What's new
What's new

New gun design help

John Brenner

Plastic
Joined
Apr 28, 2022
I’ve just joined this forum and don’t visit forums I’m a newbie. Lol I’m designing a gun it’s a 22 mag cartridge. It’s for self defense and I’m designing it to carry in my back pocket. I’m designing it to look nothing like a gun. My question is with the pressure of a 22 mag how much wall thickness will I need using either 410 or 416. The 410 has a lower Rockwell range which I would think would be better then the 416 ‘s 45 Rockwell. I’m going to have three chambers in a rectangular block. The bores are going to be honed smooth bores 1.500 in length. These will all be in this one rectangular block. My question the rim fires have much less pressures what is the minimum wall thickness I need with 410 at around 30 Rockwell. I’m trying to keep the Thickness of this block at a minimum because it will be in my back pocket. But with this design I will have two weak points where the wall will be thinner in line with the thickness. Also is the 416 a better choice maybe with a higher Rockwell. Im only a designer not an engineer. Lol Any recommendations are really appreciated.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Location
marysville ohio
I’ve just joined this forum and don’t visit forums I’m a newbie. Lol I’m designing a gun it’s a 22 mag cartridge. It’s for self defense and I’m designing it to carry in my back pocket. I’m designing it to look nothing like a gun. My question is with the pressure of a 22 mag how much wall thickness will I need using either 410 or 416. The 410 has a lower Rockwell range which I would think would be better then the 416 ‘s 45 Rockwell. I’m going to have three chambers in a rectangular block. The bores are going to be honed smooth bores 1.500 in length. These will all be in this one rectangular block. My question the rim fires have much less pressures what is the minimum wall thickness I need with 410 at around 30 Rockwell. I’m trying to keep the Thickness of this block at a minimum because it will be in my back pocket. But with this design I will have two weak points where the wall will be thinner in line with the thickness. Also is the 416 a better choice maybe with a higher Rockwell. Im only a designer not an engineer. Lol Any recommendations are really appreciated.

Seems like there is some sort of law that covers this sort of gun, you better know the law before you do something that is going to get your ass in trouble.
 

kustomizer

Titanium
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Location
North Fork Idaho
I saw somewhere where someone was making something like that, curved to feel better to sit on, If I remember right, it has to be rifled but as above I don't remember all the rules
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
For some on this forum......there have been several requests for constructive advice for firearms which may well be illegal in some jurisdictions.....for instance ,handguns are generally banned in UK,and it is an offence to advise on construction or repair online in the UK.
 

FredC

Titanium
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Location
Dewees Texas
I would be looking at what is already out there already. North American mini revolvers, the old Bond Derringers and maybe ones from Cobra. Take your calipers to the gun shop and see what others are using as far as wall thickness. You might even find something good enough and save yourself the trouble of trying to build your own.
 

mhajicek

Titanium
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
1. If you're going to use it for self defense, you want it to be 100% reliable. Buy one that's already been debugged by a reputable manufacturer.
2. If you're going to use it for self defense, 22 Mag is of questionable utility. It will kill, but not very fast; it's unlikely to stop someone before they can hurt you or someone you care about. Use a more powerful caliber.
3. I'm pretty sure the barrel must be rifled to conform with the law.
4. I recommend 17-4 H900 for the material.
5. Look up the chamber pressure range for the caliber you want to use, calculate the required hoop strength, and base your wall thickness on that with the tensile strength of the material, plus a significant safety margin. If you can't calculate that, you shouldn't be making your own.
6. Some jurisdictions have laws prohibiting guns that look like not guns. Be certain of the laws in your area before you begin.
 

52 Ford

Stainless
Joined
May 20, 2021
Make it blackpowder. No laws to deal with AND you get a nice smoke screen to conceal you after you've fired.

Sent using Morse code on - .- .--. .- - .- .-.. -.-
 

52 Ford

Stainless
Joined
May 20, 2021
And as said above - .22 Magnum is much better suited for squirrel hunting than self defense.

AT LEAST go with something like .32 ACP.

ORRRR some 32 caliber hollowpoints and a big charge of black powder! :D

Sent using Morse code on - .- .--. .- - .- .-.. -.-
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
A novelty gun? A gun that looks like a wallet and shoots the guy trying to rob you of your wallet.
Very likely to get one in more trouble than it's worth, or cause a serious accident.
Better to put valuables in your shoe and give up a real but empty wallet. Better to give up a hundred bucks than to shoot someone.

Trying to market such a device will put one in the cooler PDQ.

38 special 3 shot wallet, point and squeeze design, you say here and give it to the bugger.
 

HHollow

Plastic
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Location
MT
Your novel design may fall in the "any other weapon" (AOW) category defined and regulated by the national firearms act (NFA). The AOW category includes cane guns, pen guns, some belt buckle guns, and others that function as but do not appear as pistols.

If you want to build an AOW some paperwork and a trivial tax of $5 is required. Probably fingerprints as well. And be sure to check if your state even allows them. And to sell the AOW the buyer has to do a similar set of paperwork and pay a transfer tax of $5.

It is big deal to violate NFA.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
On one of the "picker" tv shows ,there was a cash register that shot anyone in the guts that opened the cash draw without pushing a special key........It shot the inventor when he forgot to push the key.......all the thieves had to do was stand to one side,cause it was only a single shot register.
 

52 Ford

Stainless
Joined
May 20, 2021
On one of the "picker" tv shows ,there was a cash register that shot anyone in the guts that opened the cash draw without pushing a special key........It shot the inventor when he forgot to push the key.......all the thieves had to do was stand to one side,cause it was only a single shot register.
That's one helluva invention.

Useless machine - Wikipedia.

:D



Sent using Morse code on - .- .--. .- - .- .-.. -.-
 

kopcicle

Plastic
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Location
Western Washington
@John Brenner ,

Welcome and one heck of a first post.
Simply by the way your question was worded you have zero idea what you are doing. Just your focus on hardness of material shows gross ignorance of the requirements necessary for gun steels. You are way out of your league and need remedial metallurgical sciences instruction. Carefully back away from the idea and educate yourself.

I refuse to comment on the legality of such an endeavor.

A marginal solution in search of a problem it may only make worse.
Here I will comment. In defending your life with lethal force , first you must employ lethal force. .22 caliber anything is not lethal force at anything outside of contact distances. I prefer not to allow an assailant close to contact distances.

however

"If a man wants to carry two cats home by their tails, by all means let him. He’ll learn things that he might not have otherwise even guessed, and the experience will be one he’ll not soon forget!"
 

Toolmaker51

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
Central West Missouri
"If a man wants to carry two cats home by their tails, by all means let him. He’ll learn things that he might not have otherwise even guessed, and the experience will be one he’ll not soon forget!"

Mark Twain, I believe. There have been more laconic quote-worthy personalities, can't think any who could paint such a picture.

i wouldn't have offered any tidbit of ersatz engineering. I'm a Toolmaker, because of J.M Browning, literally. Did trigger jobs by the time I was 11 or so. Comparing/ copying is GUESSING an outcome; thinking imitation equals duplication concerning a pressure vessel aren't recommended as a hobby.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
In fact ,low carbon free machining steel would be quite adequate,as the yield strength is greater than the chamber pressure of 22Mrf....even if the steel yielded slightly,in a well known effect of slightly bulging the chamber ,a self defence gun would not need to fire hundreds of rounds. .....slightly bulging the chamber with use is a well known problem with soft steel 22 rf barrels rechambered to 22 Hornet.cf.
 

52 Ford

Stainless
Joined
May 20, 2021
In fact ,low carbon free machining steel would be quite adequate,as the yield strength is greater than the chamber pressure of 22Mrf....even if the steel yielded slightly,in a well known effect of slightly bulging the chamber ,a self defence gun would not need to fire hundreds of rounds. .....slightly bulging the chamber with use is a well known problem with soft steel 22 rf barrels rechambered to 22 Hornet.cf.
Ehhhhhh let's not talk about "doesn't need to shoot a lot". I'm not saying you're wrong (I don't think you are... mostly :) ), BUT it's important to practice with your self defense firearms. No point carrying it if you point-fire and you're pulling 2 feet to the left and a foot high at 10 feet!

I get that "super covert" carry is a VERY desirable thing...I'd get a P365 (I like Sig). If I needed smaller, I'd go to a Ruger LCP, maybe.

I dunno. I dont go for sneaky. I carry a .45.

If weather allows, why not get a chest rig and carry a full size?

Sent using Morse code on - .- .--. .- - .- .-.. -.-
 
Last edited:








 
Top