New guy bought a No.4 (M-1420) - How'd I do?

[ChriS2000]

209.5 mm is near 8 1/4", and though I can't read the little dimensions, that is the O.D. I expect. A1 has both bolt circles, A2 has only the outer. The chuck shown on Ebay uses the inner bolt circle on your M-1420. And YES, the A represents a particular design which comes in multiple sizes for the simple reason that there are both large and small machines and lots in between.

Not to worry about ignorance, it can be rectified, and we all come with loads of it

Just to clarify, the inner bolt circle is an 8" diameter and A1-8 can be used for it. Does the m-1420 have an outer bolt circle so an A2 can be used, and if so, what is the diameter of the outer circle?

Thanks again

 

[johnoder]

Just to clarify, the inner bolt circle is an 8" diameter and A1-8 can be used for it. Does the m-1420 have an outer bolt circle so an A2 can be used, and if so, what is the diameter of the outer circle?

Thanks again

Neither BC is anywhere near 8". The spindle nose itself is 8 1/4" outside diameter. ASA/ASME B5.9 Spindle Noses says bolt circles on the A1-8" are 6 3/4 outer and 4 3/8 inner

Thumbnail illustrates. 12 o'clock position occupied by drive "button" (so bolts are not loaded in shear)

M-1420 data adds 4 more tapped holes in the inner - 23 total instead of the 19 on the standard

All will be revealed with removal of collet system parts

 

[ChriS2000]

Neither BC is anywhere near 8". The spindle nose itself is 8 1/4" outside diameter. ASA/ASME B5.9 Spindle Noses says bolt circles on the A1-8" are 6 3/4 outer and 4 3/8 inner

Thumbnail illustrates. 12 o'clock position occupied by drive "button" (so bolts are not loaded in shear)

M-1420 data adds 4 more tapped holes in the inner - 23 total instead of the 19 on the standard

All will be revealed with removal of collet system parts

Excellent that clears things up a lot. I have access to ASME specs at work so I'll start familiarizing myself with the applicable specs.

 

[ChriS2000]

What's the difference between an indexing tool post and the square turret tool post that comes on the cross slide?

 

[johnoder]

What's the difference between an indexing tool post and the square turret tool post that comes on the cross slide?

The normal McCrosky of the old days was an excellent and stout indexing device (made up to 8" square), but any tooling was clamped in solidly - while modern indexing tool posts such as Aloris and Dorian both index and have removable tool holding blocks

 

[4GSR]

Notice the chain wrapped around the leg of the machine. Be careful there, that leg is thin and can be easily "yanked" out from under the lathe. Suggest running the chain around the entire lathe and pulling. There's a lot of weight in that machine, be careful! Ken

 

[excello]

Wow - that old machine looks very clean ! I usually expect to see about an 1/8" layer of old dried oil and dust on such "finds". Good luck with the old brute ! I have never run turret lathe but find them rather interesting.

excello

 

[ChriS2000]

Notice the chain wrapped around the leg of the machine. Be careful there, that leg is thin and can be easily "yanked" out from under the lathe. Suggest running the chain around the entire lathe and pulling. There's a lot of weight in that machine, be careful! Ken

Hey Ken, thanks for the heads up. When you say wrap it around the entire lathe, are you saying around the legs of the lathe where it bolts to the pan/table? Originally I was planning on trying to use two cherry pickers to lift this thing onto an open top car trailer, but the more I'm thinking about it I might just call a wrecker to winch it up onto a tilt bed.

 

[ChriS2000]

Here is a 12" three jaw not far away - for A8 (the six bolts nearest center)

Have to come up with some top jaws. Probably tired, but maybe better than nothing

12” 3 Jaw Self Centering Manual Chuck A8 / D8 Mount | eBay

I spoke to a couple guys from gahr / small tools yesterday, great folks. Corey the lead W&S tech gave me a bunch of good advice about getting it ready to use, and he set aside a pretty nice W&S 3 jaw for me. The top jaws look almost new.

I also have "TOOLS" (1948) and "Turret Lathe Operator's Manual" on their way from ebay. Writing manuals is my line of work (jet engines), so out of nostalgia I paid a little extra to get some non-reprints. I did download the relevant pdfs from vintagemachinery.org as well.

 

[johnoder]

Looks pretty good. Some of the ruggedest chucks ever made come from W&S

Don't expect perfect runout - its not happening in a three jaw - at least not on all diameters

See the recess for the drive button?

 

[ChriS2000]

Looks pretty good. Some of the ruggedest chucks ever made come from W&S

Don't expect perfect runout - its not happening in a three jaw - at least not on all diameters

See the recess for the drive button?

I do, I'll be sure to line that up.

Are the bar feeders and collet chucks worth anything? I feel like I'll rarely use that setup and I could sell / trade them off for other tooling. If they're not worth much I'm sure a project will come along where they would be useful.

 

[4GSR]

I do, I'll be sure to line that up.

Are the bar feeders and collet chucks worth anything? I feel like I'll rarely use that setup and I could sell / trade them off for other tooling. If they're not worth much I'm sure a project will come along where they would be useful.

They are not wanted as much today as they once were. Stick it in a corner, may need it some day.

 

[ChriS2000]

So I brought the machine home yesterday, here's the good, the bad, and the ugly. I'm glad I ended up hiring a wrecker to pick it up, would have been very perilous to try loading it onto a car trailer on our own. Wasn't able to test anything under power but allegedly it's fully functional. Came with a selection of tooling, taper attachment, phase converter, and bar feeder. We also found the door for covering the motor and part of the rear spindle cover in a scrap pile on the other side of the barn. The old cutting oil all over this thing stinks to high heaven!



After getting it home I noticed that the inner gear preselector wheel is missing the chart and has a piece busted out of it. Hopefully that doesnt mean something came apart in the headstock. Also looks like someone was inside the carriage based on the blue rtv sealant. The back side of the headstock is coated in coolant, not sure if the pump or something else is leaking. Three of the oil fill cups are missing the lids, exposing the gear cases to debris. Otherwise everything seems tight and in relatively decent shape.

 

[ChriS2000]

Here's some pics of the areas of concern, especially the preselector wheel -

 

[ChriS2000]

Here's some closer pics of the included tooling -

 

[Mud]

That's the cleanest one I've seen change hands. That coolant pump is meant for cutting oil, they tend to lose prime when using water soluble coolant and are sort of a PITA. If you find you want coolant on the machine, I'd take that off and put a small electric coolant pump on it.

 

[mike graham]

if your#4 is like mine it will have an A1-8 spindle.... it will have an inner and outer bolt circle. A1 USES THE INNER . A2 uses the outer. you can put A2 on A1 but not the other way around.. as far as i know.

 

[ChriS2000]

Thanks guys. Does anyone know if there's a way to move the turret carriage without the machine running? I want to clean and lube everything before powering it on.

Also, any comments on the gear selector window and guesses as to what happened to it? Also the cap on top of it doesn't have the "fingers" on it that I usually see in pictures.

 

[ChriS2000]

I started cleaning the machine up with kerosene, the spindle rotates freely in neutral and I was able to engage all the gears (I think).

Next steps will be changing the headstock oil and greasing everything up, wiring it up with the phase converter, and testing all of the functions.

Is there a way to move the turret carriage/slide to the end of the bed without running the machine?

 

[michiganbuck]

Would be good to get an operators manual..You might run an add in Craigslist for someone to show you what the the handles do.. I ran one years ago just for simple turning so would be no help at all.

Very nice looking machine.