New Haas door interlock

[Oldwrench]

The latest Haas VMCs come with automatic doors whether you order that option or not. Interestingly, whereas before the spindle would turn up to 750rpm with the doors open (useful when using an edge finder or a co-ax indicator) now it will not run at all unless the doors are closed. Perhaps they assume you will not be using anything so old-fashioned as an edge finder...but if you didn't order a probe with the machine you can't find work locations. Duh.

I recently visited a friend's shop in the Denver area (anonymous, for reasons which will become obvious) who had run up against this problem. No probe, but automatic doors that they hadn't ordered. The guy was kind enough to show me this workaround, utilizing a maintained-contact button switch that fits in the plugged hole normally occupied by the connector for the remote handwheel: Button out=the control thinks the doors are open; button in=it thinks the doors are closed. Cycle the button in and out once to boot up. After that, you can do whatever you want except that it must be in the open position for the lights to come on and/or to change tools manually. Push again to turn them off and run the program. Obviously some temporary disabling of mechanical elements is also required, but they tell me that is easily re-enabled if one uses the same electrical connectors as the original. Why bother to reconnect it? Because an HFO technoid is apparently not allowed to work on a machine whose interlock has been circumvented.

Anyway, the way the machine came was probably an "engineering oversight" illustrating the Law of Unintended Consequences—but these days, who knows? The above information is passed along in the spirit of educating the consumer, and is certainly not intended to help a devious machinist defeat any safety features. To that end, critical details have been deliberately left out.

 

[RCS Machine]

Yea, HAAS and most all other mfgs SUCK with all these "safety" features (door locks). My 2016 VF3 had the door locks which were easy to get around since it has 2 doors. In the beginning the spindle would run up to 1000 with the door open. Then when I added a WIPS to it last Fall they had to update the software and guess what, no more running at 1000 with the door open. Again, this was no big deal for this machine as I have the left door set to lock and the right door rigged. The crappy part was before the software update I could spin the spindle at 1000 with both doors open. Really handy to give a reamer a quick spin to make sure it isn't whipping all over the place.

Come 2020 I get a DM1 with only 1 door. Now I'm screwed because there is no extra door to rig so I just have a small block with a magnet attached to stick up against the door sensor. Works great as long as you have all your tools loaded up. With the magnet in place you can't hand load any tools unless you remove the magnet.

Besides running an old school edge finder, I am always running reamers with my door open to dab cutting oil on the reamers for reaming steel. Seams like coolant always oversizes the holes where the oil doesn't. Either that or I have a vacuum hose stuck inside the work envelope when cutting plastic and fiberglass.

What can a guy do when everyone now-a-days has to protect YOU from someone stupid. I'll have to look further into your example when I get a few spare minutes.

 

[TeachMePlease]

(It's a joke)

 

[ChipSplitter]

View attachment 298215

(It's a joke)

Teach, what happened to your mohawk..???

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To the topic.......this is why I've always said that having too many safety "features" becomes self-defeating.

I'm not an "inter-lock bypassing" type of guy, but Haas's latest stuff drives me nuts!

How many of you guys have used an edgefinder with the doors closed.??

 

[sirAIG]

Just stick a magnet on the door interlock sensor. Works on my new mm2

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[ChipSplitter]

Just stick a magnet on the door interlock sensor. Works on my new mm2

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Not with auto doors, you don't. They now come standard on the VF series.

I never asked for that, you bloody b@stards! I'll open the doors with my own two hands, thank you very much.

 

[boosted]

Never found this to be a significant issue. Even if you have to use a wriggler, can't you just do it with the door shut?

 

[ChipSplitter]

Never found this to be a significant issue. Even if you have to use a wriggler, can't you just do it with the door shut?

Can I borrow your binoculars?

 

[boosted]

Can I borrow your binoculars?

Maybe it's a HAAS thing? I've only used an edge finder maybe half a dozen times in the last decade, but it has always been easy enough to do with the door closed.

For me the incredibly small inconvenience is worth the extra piece-of-mind when my wife is loading parts, or I'm towards the end of a 20 hour shift.

 

[sirAIG]

I'm probably wrong, but you can still run the spindle with the door open via enabling/disabling the setup mode via key on right side of control. It limits your spindle speed, however it is plenty to edgefind

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

Why bother to reconnect it? Because an HFO technoid is apparently not allowed to work on a machine whose interlock has been circumvented.

When I worked for Doosan we were under orders to NOT touch nor even stay in a plant where the interlocks are bypassed. One time I had to wait in the parking lot while the customer put everything back.

As far as all the safety stuff goes, it's all mandated by law and by previous cases. It only takes one idiot to do something glaringly STUPID to cause things to spiral. There was a VERY high profile case about 15 years ago where some idiot got sucked into a giant CNC lathe and ground into sausage. Numerous "smaller" cases of lathes and mills chucking parts into foreheads, tearing off fingers and wrists, bars extended WAY outside lathe spindles tearing folk in half, hands crushed by mill ATC's, chuck keys sent clean through a head from a high speed spindle with the doors open, and here we have it.

I'm old enough to remember automatic parking brake release on luxury cars, no trans/brake interlock, etc. It only took an idiot (or two or three) to mow their kid down while "thinking" they're stepping on the brake when they're stepping on the gas and there you have it.

 

[TCFab]

I love the autodoor on my 2019 vf2ssyt. I thought the 2019 ST35y we got at work would have it, but it doesn't. That door is heavy too.

 

[SeymourDumore]

Maybe it's a HAAS thing? I've only used an edge finder maybe half a dozen times in the last decade, but it has always been easy enough to do with the door closed.

For me the incredibly small inconvenience is worth the extra piece-of-mind when my wife is loading parts, or I'm towards the end of a 20 hour shift.

It IS a Haas thing!

My Mori lathes do have the safety stuff enabled, but they also have a key ( real key, not some garbage sheetmetal ) that allows the setup guy or the experienced guy to operate the machine
in a less safe, but usable manner.
When done, move the key to the normal mode, remove it you feel like it and done, all safeties are back.

Not on a Fucking Haas!
They do have the so called "service" key, but the miserable piece of shit doesn't do a damm in helping you out!
So, the only recourse one has is to disable or defeat as much of it as possible. Unfortunately the more elaborate the factory safety attempt, the more elaborate the evasion must be,
and the more elaborate the evasion is, the more likely it cannot be undone on the fly.
Haas should send one of their programmers ( actually might as well send 10 just to have at least a half a usable brain between all of them ) to the field to see how their fucking machines
are used, then go back to Oxnard and spend a few months figuring out how they can rewrite the service key function.

 

[precisionmetal]

I understand *why* the industry has evolved (devolved?) to this point, but in a non-production, prototype shop with one (or a few) experienced machinists, the interlocks are far worse than just a nuisance. I would never buy a new Haas for this very reason -- I'd just search for that 10 year old unicorn that had 500 hours on it.

Most of the small prototype shops I know of are avoiding new machines for this very reason.

Maybe there is a market for a "door mod" where the fixed windows just get replaced with easily removable lexan that quickly lifts in/out. Doors stay shut, remove a window and do what needs to be done... replace window and run the program?

PM

 

[SeymourDumore]

I understand *why* the industry has evolved (devolved?) to this point, but in a non-production, prototype shop with one (or a few) experienced machinists, the interlocks are far worse than just a nuisance. I would never buy a new Haas for this very reason -- I'd just search for that 10 year old unicorn that had 500 hours on it.


PM

'Splain that to someone like Boosted who assumes folks with skirts are equivalent to machinists.

To note: My Wife (skirtwearing ) does push buttons here ...

I don't know about the "incredibly small inconvenience", but fuck me if I was not to find anything and everything to evade whatever is in my way of making parts faster.

 

[Mike1974]

We have a brand new VF2ss on the floor waiting for Haas to do the install. I am curious as to what new "goodies" we will find compared to our '17 and ;18 models. Oddly enough, both of them are NGC, but have a few discrepancy between them... Anywho, I am actually excited to see the auto doors and how they work. Man oh man I wish that was something they had on the UMC750, that door was a beast!

Another thought, probing (when purchased with machine new) is only $5400, why wouldn't you get that instead of using an edge finder? I mean, if you are only ever going to run one or two parts maybe, but even then, the pain of edge finding with the door closed can't be that big of a deal if you are doing minimum setups...?

 

[Mike1974]

It IS a Haas thing!

My Mori lathes do have the safety stuff enabled, but they also have a key ( real key, not some garbage sheetmetal ) that allows the setup guy or the experienced guy to operate the machine
in a less safe, but usable manner.
When done, move the key to the normal mode, remove it you feel like it and done, all safeties are back.

Not on a Fucking Haas!
They do have the so called "service" key, but the miserable piece of shit doesn't do a damm in helping you out!
So, the only recourse one has is to disable or defeat as much of it as possible. Unfortunately the more elaborate the factory safety attempt, the more elaborate the evasion must be,
and the more elaborate the evasion is, the more likely it cannot be undone on the fly.
Haas should send one of their programmers ( actually might as well send 10 just to have at least a half a usable brain between all of them ) to the field to see how their fucking machines
are used, then go back to Oxnard and spend a few months figuring out how they can rewrite the service key function.

Get over yourself man! I've done job shop (single pieces) and prototype work on an old Matsurra with NO safety features, a '12ish vintage Haas with a simple door interlock, and the new stuff with limited spindle speed, door interlocks, crappy setup keys, etc. The new safety features have slowed me down no more than if you glued a few cotton balls to my shoes. And the Matsurra with shitty lighting, no safetys at all, no chip conveyor/auger was the worst of the bunch!

Besides, are you a machinist or not? Make a key or switch to override them, then if you need a tech, take it out, disable it etc. It's not that hard.

 

[DDoug]

Every one of these safety devices are the result of lawsuits.

You may never sue the manuf over an accident, but others will.

FWIW there isn't any kind of contract your lawyer could draw up between you and the machine OEM to preclude them delivery a machine to you without the safety devices, no matter how much you promise to "Not sue in case of injury".

 

[Rstewart]

We have a 2020 VF2 with the new door interlocks. A magnet defeats them but if you're running a part and say you wanna adjust a coolant nozzle, the spindle Has to be Stopped or the door will not open.

 

[Mtndew]

Never found this to be a significant issue. Even if you have to use a wriggler, can't you just do it with the door shut?

Maybe on a brand new machine where the window is crystal clear, but on a machine that has seen some chips and coolant you ain't seeing jack shit thru the window. You'll be lucky to even see the vise on some machines.