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New Haas door safety

dcrace

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 26, 2002
Location
U.S.A.
we have a new VF-4 and it drives me crazy that I can't run the spindle with the door open. Not looking to do this during production, but nice to be able to see the cutter make a chip when skimming soft jaws, etc.. I thought we could run up to a certain RPM? I have tried with the setup key switch in both positions. Any tips that can be shared here or is it as simple as a setting somewhere.
Thanks in advance.
 

IninefingersI

Aluminum
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Location
Doo Dah, Kansas
I've also often wondered why they mount a coolant sprayer on the front of the machine, but disable the coolant and chip auger when the door is open.

There may be a setting, but I'm unaware of it. They got rid of #51 years ago.

Not that I would ever personally recommend it but, word on the street is, neodymium magnet on the end of a drill bit fixes the problem on some of the models. We also have a couple VF3's with a piece of metal hanging beside the door curiously shaped like the key to the door lock. Not sure how they got there or what they are for.
 

EMTech

Aluminum
Joined
Feb 10, 2022
Location
South Bend area
Haas has gotten more restrictive over the years.

The newer ones do not allow the spindle to be on with doors open. I don't think the machines will even do a tool change with the doors open.

I do not know of any setting that will override this mode of operation.

Really annoying to try to work with...
 

AARONT

Stainless
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Location
Madison, WI
Take a hex key and remove the screws that hold the interlock key onto the doors. Then the interlock key can stay plugged in and you can open and close doors with the spindle on. I also used that time to make a few extra interlock keys since the Haas technician wouldn't give/sell us one.

Edit: Our machines are 2014 vintage
 

dcrace

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 26, 2002
Location
U.S.A.
I will mess around a bit.. really don't want to completely disable the door lock and possibly have one of our operators have an issue.. As others have expressed, its annoying, the setup key should allow us to do simple things like at least run the spindle and have to turn it off if the machine was in auto or MDI.. On our UMC, the switch is readily accessible and I just put a magnet over the prox switch.. if you close the door all the way it nocks the magnet off and all is good.. Only problem with that setup is It won't let me release the tool because it thinks the door is open...
 

SeymourDumore

Diamond
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Location
CT
Any tips that can be shared here or is it as simple as a setting somewhere.


Look on the I/O board for 2 connectors on it's upper right side, labeled Door2 and Door3
Put a cable on two of the pins, route it to the front of the machine and put a toggle switch across it.
Simple like.
Only slightly more involved is to mount a DPDT rotary keyswitch into one of the round blanks on the control cabinet, and wire that to those 2 connectors.
Then route the cable to the front of the machine for the toggle switch.
Give the setup guy the key to the rotary switch.
During setup, he can turn the switch to the "setup" side and toggle the front switch as he needs to.
Once done, he can just turn it back to "normal" mode and all door safeties are back to factory.

Why Haas can't figure this shit out is beyond me!
They literally go far out of their way to fuck up the machine ( not just this issue ) and make it as much of a pain in the ass as they can!
Gene should really take a few months off from his busy racing schedule and spend some time in the field listening to those who use his machines day-to-day!
 

dcrace

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 26, 2002
Location
U.S.A.
Great info Seymour, thanks for sharing. Seems the old "We listen to our customers' needs and give them what they want" saying was scrapped over the years at Haas. Our newest machine is touch screen which is ok.. but some software engineer decided to change some of the VPS templates and made it now where it takes MORE keystrokes to do any probing routines.. For example single axis probing which I use a lot and it drives me crazy because it's different than our 1 year older machine..
 

BGL

Hot Rolled
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Location
Maryland, USA
Seems to me one could use a small project box with a magnet on the back and toggle switch. Molex 76650-0011 connector kit and some wire.
Tie into the circuit with proper molex quick connectors Haas uses.

Use this only when needed. Disconnect for normal use or a Haas tech visit.
Just an idea.
<click, click>
 

rons

Diamond
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Location
California, USA
Haas has gotten more restrictive over the years.

The newer ones do not allow the spindle to be on with doors open. I don't think the machines will even do a tool change with the doors open.

I do not know of any setting that will override this mode of operation.

Really annoying to try to work with...
It's cheaper and more humane to incorporate door safeties and other stuff than have lawyers picking at
their wallet. They save their ass from going to court and charge the customer for the "upgrades".
 

EMTech

Aluminum
Joined
Feb 10, 2022
Location
South Bend area
It's cheaper and more humane to incorporate door safeties and other stuff than have lawyers picking at
their wallet. They save their ass from going to court and charge the customer for the "upgrades".
I get it... I don't have to like it.

At some point "safety features" prohibit efficiency. I want to be able to weigh risk vs reward for myself. I strongly dislike having that decided for me for every potentially dangerous situation.

I am only speaking as an individual. I can understand in today's legal atmosphere why businesses and machine tool builders do not want the potential liability.
 

rons

Diamond
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Location
California, USA
I get it... I don't have to like it.

At some point "safety features" prohibit efficiency. I want to be able to weigh risk vs reward for myself. I strongly dislike having that decided for me for every potentially dangerous situation.

I am only speaking as an individual. I can understand in today's legal atmosphere why businesses and machine tool builders do not want the potential liability.
Interlocks are not hard to disable. Usually a micro-switch.

Wonder if those protections where brought about by accidents.
 

Pete Deal

Stainless
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Location
Morgantown, WV
I think this is brought about by osha and lawsuits. To think Haas can’t figure out how to install a bypass is silly. My Brother machines don’t have a way to bypass the safety either.
 

Mike1974

Diamond
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Location
Tampa area
I understand the 'want' to have the ability to run with doors open, but you really need it?

I mean with simulation in cam... single block, op stop...
 

EMTech

Aluminum
Joined
Feb 10, 2022
Location
South Bend area
I understand the 'want' to have the ability to run with doors open, but you really need it?

I mean with simulation in cam... single block, op stop...
A couple things come to mind...

It is very difficult to use an edge finder with the doors closed. New safety feature stops the spindle from being on even at low RPMs with the doors open. Probes and indicators are nice, but sometimes I still want to pick up a small edge that needs an edge finder.

Newer safety feature prevents tool changes with doors open. Haas machines have to load and unload tools via the spindle. So if I have 20 to 30 tools in a carousel, I have to open and close the door in between each unload and then all over again when I load up the tools for the next job. That slows everything down and gets annoying REALLY fast. Especially with the newer auto doors.
 
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SeymourDumore

Diamond
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Location
CT
I understand the 'want' to have the ability to run with doors open, but you really need it?

I mean with simulation in cam... single block, op stop...

Actually, simulation or dry running is pretty much the ONLY time you don't need it!
Setting up, cutting a fixture or jaw, taking a test cut or simply dialing in a chamfer tool ... yupp, it is essential for efficiency and accuracy!
 

ima_machiner

Plastic
Joined
May 23, 2022
I wouldn't recommend any bypassing of safety features but i may have seen something with a magnet and a piece of shim stock under both door sensors.
 

colton_m

Plastic
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
I wouldn't recommend any bypassing of safety features but i may have seen something with a magnet and a piece of shim stock under both door sensors.

On my machine (2015 VF-3) they got around that by having the tool release button disabled with the doors closed...
So you need the doors closed to run a tool change and you need them open to activate the release button...
I settled on disabling my right door and leaving my left door normal, now I only need to bump the left door open every time I want to use the tool release button.
It's annoying but bumping the left door 2" to the left has become second nature.
 
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Bluejeep

Hot Rolled
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Location
Cape Cod, Ma
a neodymium magnet strategically placed on top of the door will make the control think the door is closed while open, Haas tech clued me in while installing my vf3 when he saw that I was a competent human
 








 
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