New Machine Day

[Andrew M]

I finally mounted my Orange vise last night

Can we get a picture please, and vice model, so we can see how much table space it uses. Do you have a 4th axis on the table too?

I've got money coming my way shortly so I will be placing my order for a DEM in the not too distant future.

 

[rklopp]

Can we get a picture please, and vice model, so we can see how much table space it uses. Do you have a 4th axis on the table too?

I've got money coming my way shortly so I will be placing my order for a DEM in the not too distant future.

This is the Orange 16” model set up as a single station with TalonGrips. I suppose you could fit three in a pinch.

 

[Andrew M]

This is the Orange 16” model set up as a single station with TalonGrips. I suppose you could fit three in a pinch.

Thanks for posting the pics and info - it looks great!!!!

Are you getting to grips with the controller? Still happy with the machine?

 

[rklopp]

Andrew
Yes, I am getting to grips with the controller. It is definitely not intuitive compared to Haas. There is a lot more menu poking on the soft keys to get where I want to go. I can upload and download programs from USB, but for some reason can't do the same with a CF card, even though I pick the right device and do the same steps as for USB. The DEM and Fusion 360 play nicely together. It took a ton of soft key poking, but I was able to edit the keep relay for the chip auger so it is manual only, rather than automatic whenever operating at a feed rate. I prefer this for my style of working.

I do my tool length setting offline with a 40-taper socket and a surface gauge on a surface plate. That works really well when combined with a Haimer probe in the DEM. I had used this approach with my old Deckel, but it works better on the DEM because the Deckel did not have a global tool length offset table.

So yes, I am happy with the machine.
RKlopp

 

[rklopp]

Update: I am very happy with the DEM 4000 and am fairly comfortable with the Fanuc 0I-Mf+ control. The 10-hp Phase Perfect is a good match. This weekend I was loading the spindle up to about 50% load and the Phase Perfect was showing 50% of its rated current. The California Air Tools 60040CAD 11-cfm compressor also seems to be a good match, not cycling too frequently. I had a warranty claim on the compressor due to a blown hose, and C.A.T. could have responded more quickly because I was dead in the water, but it's OK now. The compressor is not a heavy duty industrial grade machine, but OK for a garage setup like mine.

I almost exclusively generate code using Fusion 360 and do sneakernet transfer via USB.

I put a Haas milling chuck in the spindle and the machine did not explode. Here is a "lathe" job in more ways than one. (It is a replacement handwheel for the lathe tailstock at the high school. A student broke the original. Don't ask... I did not form the keyway using the DEM.)

 

[Andrew M]

Do you use a Renishaw / other brand probe, or a manual Haimer etc for workpiece setting? What about tool setting?

I'm getting closer to ordering a DEM, just need an electrician to turn up to work out the switchboard electrics.....

 

[rklopp]

Do you use a Renishaw / other brand probe, or a manual Haimer etc for workpiece setting? What about tool setting?

I'm getting closer to ordering a DEM, just need an electrician to turn up to work out the switchboard electrics.....

I use a Haimer manual probe that I keep parked as tool 20. I set tool lengths offline with a surface gauge and a dummy 40-taper socket upside down on a surface plate. Tool radii are set manually. I am of course living with the risk of fat-fingering a number.

I DIYed the electrics, since no available electrician around here is likely to have a clue about buck-boost transformers and phase converters.

 

[EZNC]

What are the voltages you're supplying to the DEM4000? Curious if you're getting the standard ~240Vac to the input of the phase perfect. Did you have to use a transformer?

 

[Miller846]

What are the voltages you're supplying to the DEM4000? Curious if you're getting the standard ~240Vac to the input of the phase perfect. Did you have to use a transformer?

I did have to run a transformer on mine. I had 250V coming in and stepped it down to 220V. No hiccups at all! I’m running an American Rotary 30Hp phase converter and transformer from them as well and the DEM runs perfectly.

 

[Andrew M]

The machine specs say EOP is not available on the DEM 4000 even as an option, so the screen that pops up is just a tease.

So that gets me back to wanting an M-code list.

I got a quote last week from the DN dealer in Australia, and they gave me the option of the DEM 4000 with or without Easy Guide. Said if I get Easy Guide it will take longer to build the machine because it requires a different controller for Easy Guide than the standard non Easy Guide machine.

Renishaw GUI is not available on the machine regardless of whether you have Easy Guide or not, so that's a bit of downer. So I'll have to learn about macros for the tool setter and workpiece probe.

So while I wait for my house sale to go through, I am thinking about whether I should get Easy Guide or save the $8K for something else?

 

[LockNut]

I got a quote last week from the DN dealer in Australia, and they gave me the option of the DEM 4000 with or without Easy Guide. Said if I get Easy Guide it will take longer to build the machine because it requires a different controller for Easy Guide than the standard non Easy Guide machine.

Renishaw GUI is not available on the machine regardless of whether you have Easy Guide or not, so that's a bit of downer. So I'll have to learn about macros for the tool setter and workpiece probe.

So while I wait for my house sale to go through, I am thinking about whether I should get Easy Guide or save the $8K for something else?

This is tough for me to say because I'm not a big fan of conversational programming. It doesn't give you the fine control that CAM programming gives you. But I was brought up on CAM systems early on. And there will be things you want to do that simply can't be done in EZGuide. But that's just me and you need to do what's right for you. I do believe though, eventually, you will want more.
That machine is targeted for education purposes. No advanced look ahead (AICC) either. Cheap on the memory and no provision for expanding it. It's missing a lot of things. Price looks great but at what cost? I would spend the money on the probing but all of the macros will eat greatly into your memory. I am not even sure you could get a data serrver on that thing. Get used to running from a mem card, whisc IS a viable option. Look into getting the MEM card option where you can run a MEM card as regular memory with full editing, search and save features. I am not trying to dissuade you sincce I work for DN but I do think you should do more homework because, generally speaking, you are not being told everything. Either the sales guys don't know or they don't want you to know.

 

[Andrew M]

This is tough for me to say because I'm not a big fan of conversational programming. It doesn't give you the fine control that CAM programming gives you. But I was brought up on CAM systems early on. And there will be things you want to do that simply can't be done in EZGuide. But that's just me and you need to do what's right for you. I do believe though, eventually, you will want more.
That machine is targeted for education purposes. No advanced look ahead (AICC) either. Cheap on the memory and no provision for expanding it. It's missing a lot of things. Price looks great but at what cost? I would spend the money on the probing but all of the macros will eat greatly into your memory. I am not even sure you could get a data serrver on that thing. Get used to running from a mem card, whisc IS a viable option. Look into getting the MEM card option where you can run a MEM card as regular memory with full editing, search and save features. I am not trying to dissuade you sincce I work for DN but I do think you should do more homework because, generally speaking, you are not being told everything. Either the sales guys don't know or they don't want you to know.

I have been brought up on CAM too, I have never programmed a machine with conversational programming and wouldn't know where to start with it either, I've always used Inventor and now Fusion 360. So if EzGuide is basically only for conversational programming, then I will save the money and not get it. I've only used Doosan / DN lathes, not a vmc, but have used other brand vmc's ( not Fanuc ).

What exactly is the MEM card - do I buy that from the dealer or separately myself from Fanuc or somewhere?

One of the main reasons I'm looking at the DEM is because it is the largest machine ( table travel ) that I can fit in my garage - the garage door height being the limiting factor. The only other options in my neck of the woods seems to be a Haas, or a Syil X7, but they have their problems too, mainly no support on the ground, it's either Facebook groups or go through China every time. They also don't do that machine with a Fanuc, only LNC, 22MA, or Siemens. A Syil X9 might fit but I can't find the height yet as the machine still hasn't been released properly yet, they do this with a Fanuc, but the total lack of support and problems people are having with their X7's worries me.

 

[rklopp]

I have been brought up on CAM too, I have never programmed a machine with conversational programming and wouldn't know where to start with it either, I've always used Inventor and now Fusion 360. So if EzGuide is basically only for conversational programming, then I will save the money and not get it. I've only used Doosan / DN lathes, not a vmc, but have used other brand vmc's ( not Fanuc ).

What exactly is the MEM card - do I buy that from the dealer or separately myself from Fanuc or somewhere?

One of the main reasons I'm looking at the DEM is because it is the largest machine ( table travel ) that I can fit in my garage - the garage door height being the limiting factor. The only other options in my neck of the woods seems to be a Haas or a Syil X7, but they have their problems too, mainly no support on the ground, it's either Facebook groups or go through China every time. They also don't do that machine with a Fanuc, only LNC, 22MA, or Siemens. A Syil X9 might fit but I can't find the height yet as the machine still hasn't been released properly yet, they do this with a Fanuc, but the total lack of support and problems people are having with their X7's worries me.

I still like my DEM as a garage machine. I have issues with height even inside the room, and a DEM just fits. Even the most basic 40-taper Haas would not. I don’t have any issues with the Fanuc control being the stripped down version. Fanuc sure isn’t very intuitive, but I’ve got a brain and am not afraid to use it.

 

[LockNut]

I have been brought up on CAM too, I have never programmed a machine with conversational programming and wouldn't know where to start with it either, I've always used Inventor and now Fusion 360. So if EzGuide is basically only for conversational programming, then I will save the money and not get it. I've only used Doosan / DN lathes, not a vmc, but have used other brand vmc's ( not Fanuc ).

What exactly is the MEM card - do I buy that from the dealer or separately myself from Fanuc or somewhere?

One of the main reasons I'm looking at the DEM is because it is the largest machine ( table travel ) that I can fit in my garage - the garage door height being the limiting factor. The only other options in my neck of the woods seems to be a Haas, or a Syil X7, but they have their problems too, mainly no support on the ground, it's either Facebook groups or go through China every time. They also don't do that machine with a Fanuc, only LNC, 22MA, or Siemens. A Syil X9 might fit but I can't find the height yet as the machine still hasn't been released properly yet, they do this with a Fanuc, but the total lack of support and problems people are having with their X7's worries me.

I was going to suggest you speak with rklopp but he already chimed in. It's a very good machine for the way it comes. We did not skimp on mechanicals, heavy castings still. We had one in our showroom and I was impressed for a machine that is intended for a classroom. This IS a very good garage machine.

The machine comes with a MEM card slot and you can run programs from a card using M198 P???? where P is your O???? program. With this, you can see the program as it runs but you have no editing capabilities whatsoever. The MEM card option let's the MEM card be seen as another chunk of CNC memory. You get the option with a small PC program that lets you format the card and load programs in a binary format and then the card is put in the machine. Now, you see all programs on the card and you can set a main program just like CNC memory. You can edit and save, search for anything, restart in the middle of a program and so on. This may be the best option for a machine like this. Talk to your dealer and make sure you can get this. All of our controls have the machine option built in but not sure about this one. The PC software option you can buy from your dealer or Fanuc. It's about 100$, cheapest Fanuc option for sure.
If you have any more questions, contact me at [email protected].

 

[Miller846]

I got a quote last week from the DN dealer in Australia, and they gave me the option of the DEM 4000 with or without Easy Guide. Said if I get Easy Guide it will take longer to build the machine because it requires a different controller for Easy Guide than the standard non Easy Guide machine.

Renishaw GUI is not available on the machine regardless of whether you have Easy Guide or not, so that's a bit of downer. So I'll have to learn about macros for the tool setter and workpiece probe.

So while I wait for my house sale to go through, I am thinking about whether I should get Easy Guide or save the $8K for something else?

Good Evening, I’d love to chime in as I have 2 DEM 4000’s in my standard 2 car garage. I rely on both of them all day every day and neither one of them has let me down. My first one has close to 800 cutting hours on it and my second has about 300 hours. I optioned with the renishaw probe and tool setter and both machines do have the GUI software. When I got my first one, I was told by everyone that it didn’t come with GUI so I was expecting to have to learn the macro thing but to my surprise, they do come with the GUI and it works fantastic. In my opinion, these DEM’s are the best machines that you can put in a garage hands down. Please feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions on them, I’d love to chat about it!

 

[Andrew M]

Good Evening, I’d love to chime in as I have 2 DEM 4000’s in my standard 2 car garage. I rely on both of them all day every day and neither one of them has let me down. My first one has close to 800 cutting hours on it and my second has about 300 hours. I optioned with the renishaw probe and tool setter and both machines do have the GUI software. When I got my first one, I was told by everyone that it didn’t come with GUI so I was expecting to have to learn the macro thing but to my surprise, they do come with the GUI and it works fantastic. In my opinion, these DEM’s are the best machines that you can put in a garage hands down. Please feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions on them, I’d love to chat about it!

Do you have EZ Guide? Or do you know which controller you have as I was told there are 2 - the basic one and a different / better one for Ez Guide. Or did the Renishaw GUI come with it because you optioned the probe and tool setter? Do you have the probe / tool setter and GUI on both machines or only one machine? Are both controllers identical?

 

[Miller846]

Do you have EZ Guide? Or do you know which controller you have as I was told there are 2 - the basic one and a different / better one for Ez Guide. Or did the Renishaw GUI come with it because you optioned the probe and tool setter? Do you have the probe / tool setter and GUI on both machines or only one machine? Are both controllers identical?

Good Morning, my controls are identical and they are both just the basic fanuc I series, neither have the EZ Guide. They’re very simple to operate, it took me about a day or two of playing with them to get it completely down coming from a haas. The GUI came with the control because I optioned the probe/tool setter. Very simple, reliable controls, I love them. The GUI is better than the haas probing in my opinion, easier to calibrate and simple operation.

 

[Andrew M]

.....Please feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions on them, I’d love to chat about it!

I sent you a message. Thanks.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

Former DN employee here.
I used to teach the EZ Guide classes and wrote the manuals on it.
It's a great system for basic work, and for things like fixtures, jaws, etc.
There are two edges to this "sword."
A) Spend the money and get the EZ Guide and learn it.. It's the same on nearly every modern Fanuc mill control.
or..
B) Take that money and put into a CAM system and learn that.
If you're in this to make money, you might want the CAM system route. It would be faster than learning Conversational Style programming that may or may not meet your machining needs.

Most of the EZ Guide folk come off of other Conversational Style controls like Mazak and Hurco and they're used to the graphical interface.
While I've used it in demonstrations and made some cool looking parts with it, the real power is in CAM software.

 

[Andrew M]

Former DN employee here.
I used to teach the EZ Guide classes and wrote the manuals on it.
It's a great system for basic work, and for things like fixtures, jaws, etc.
There are two edges to this "sword."
A) Spend the money and get the EZ Guide and learn it.. It's the same on nearly every modern Fanuc mill control.
or..
B) Take that money and put into a CAM system and learn that.
If you're in this to make money, you might want the CAM system route. It would be faster than learning Conversational Style programming that may or may not meet your machining needs.

Most of the EZ Guide folk come off of other Conversational Style controls like Mazak and Hurco and they're used to the graphical interface.
While I've used it in demonstrations and made some cool looking parts with it, the real power is in CAM software.

Thank you for this, which has made up my mind. I was leaning towards not getting EZ Guide, as I have never used conversational programming, and I do use CAM, so I'll do as you say and put the EZ Guide money towards other things that I will give me a better return.