New Machine Purchase

[rklopp]

You doo NOT want a Siemens control in the USA unless you are running a $500K+ European 5x mill.



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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Yikes, tell us what you really think. [emoji16] I’ll bite -why?


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[Ox]

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Well, finding anyone to help with programming and trouble shooting - even here on the internet is a lesson in futility.
Call Siemens themselves for clarification on programming, and they all but tell you to go pound sand.
(I've had it happen 2wice!)

I have found their entry level equipment to be very poor quality compared to the high end stuff that I had in the back of any of my Cinci's. (Siemens motors and drives)

They have had good turn-around on components sent out for repair tho. I will give them that!

You will have to have a service tech from the machine tool distributor to doo much with it as most independents won't know much about them.
And if that distributor doesn't doo much with Siemens routinely, you having an odd duck with one on it (option) will not go well.
I currently have 3 Hardinge mills with optional Siemens controls, and you can pick those up for 1/2 the price that the same mill with a Fanuc will fetch.

Example, one mill in Maine that has been for sale for a year (?) on Ebay with a control glitch that he has listed @ $5K, and it's still there ....
It looks like a nice clean machine, but ...
I have seen others like it with running Fanuc's fetch as much as $20K.


Picking up a used one really cheap - knowing the issues is - one thing.
Buying a new one and paying for that option - a really bad move IM/HO!
Your resale value will be for naught.


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Just say NO!
Ox

 

[Bobw]

Your 2011 QT is jail bait! My 1999 SQT is still making good parts.

I'll raise your '99 and see you an '84....

She's not fast, but she's solid, I have no problem holding within .0005", though you
do have to chase it a bit as the temp changes, she's not as stable as the newer machines.

And the mazatrol back then, not as friendly. You actually have to lie to it, but its
still fast and easy. For 1984... The technology is insane... You could still buy
a Commodore64 brand new back then, and the technology involved in that was not.

 

[rklopp]

I currently have 3 Hardinge mills with optional Siemens controls, and you can pick those up for 1/2 the price that the same mill with a Fanuc will fetch.

Example, one mill in Maine that has been for sale for a year (?) on Ebay with a control glitch that he has listed @ $5K, and it's still there ....
It looks like a nice clean machine, but ...
I have seen others like it with running Fanuc's fetch as much as $20K.
Ox

That's too bad, because I've been looking at the Hardinge Bridgeport V480 & V710 with Fanuc OiMF with an 8.4" screen. They allegedly offer it with the Siemens 828D, and, on paper at least, the 828D is a lot more capable. I am sure the Fanuc is great in a production environment, but I'm looking for a VMC to use in a onesey-twosey environment.

 

[boosted]

As a counter perspective, I have worked on a lot of machines with Siemens 828D's and would see it as a massive selling point.

However, I do agree with Ox that you are going to have to get service from the machine OEM, as the few independent techs who can really dive into a Siemens are going to be busy working on expensive stuff. Also, I would double-check that the OEM is actually equipped and willing to support the control.

Example: ROMI sells a ton of machines with the 828d, so they are going to support it as well as they support anything else. Doosan probably sells less than 1 in 40 with the Siemens control, so it's much more likely to be orphaned.

 

[Vancbiker]

….. Doosan probably sells less than 1 in 40 with the Siemens control, so it's much more likely to be orphaned.

And if the machine builder doesn’t orphan it, give it 10 or 15 years then Siemens will orphan it for you by telling you replacement boards/parts are NLA.

 

[Pete Deal]

You doo NOT want a Siemens control in the USA unless you are running a $500K+ European 5x mill.



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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

I'll second that! My last job was at a pharma plant. We inherited a piece of equipment that was about 15 years old and cost about a million dollars new but never used by the previous facility that had it. Not a machine tool but had Siemens controls- servo amps, motors, main control, etc. By then it was completely unsupported by Siemens. Wound up scrapping it.

 

[JMC]

Yikes, tell us what you really think. [emoji16] I’ll bite -why?


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A Siemens on a Doosan lathe would be like a red-headed step child. Not very many of them in the wild & therefore very few people are going to know how to work on them when shit goes south. Even training on one I would doubt that Doosan has many application engineers who have seen one, nevermind actually worked on one. I learned a long time ago...stay away from the odd-duck machines. There is a lot to be said about owning a common machine, not a semi-custom.

 

[DavidScott]

A Siemens on a Doosan lathe would be like a red-headed step child. Not very many of them in the wild & therefore very few people are going to know how to work on them when shit goes south. Even training on one I would doubt that Doosan has many application engineers who have seen one, nevermind actually worked on one. I learned a long time ago...stay away from the odd-duck machines. There is a lot to be said about owning a common machine, not a semi-custom.

When you talk to tech support at your MTB and they say "yeah, we never sold many of those" meaning your machine with THAT control, you know your not going to get much help.

 

[Fred Rezfield]

i'd buy a DMG CTX with siemnse control if you're just starting buy the entry level CTX from early 2000s

 

[SND]

My opinion is that if you really want MSY for production and aren't just cutting easy stuff, its very likely best to go to the top end model. Puma2600 or Quick Turn or NLX.
Then by that point you start wondering if an integrex type machine would be ever better, and they often are...


It's so easy spending order people's money

 

[mmurray70]

I'll raise your '99 and see you an '84....

She's not fast, but she's solid, I have no problem holding within .0005", though you
do have to chase it a bit as the temp changes, she's not as stable as the newer machines.

And the mazatrol back then, not as friendly. You actually have to lie to it, but its
still fast and easy. For 1984... The technology is insane... You could still buy
a Commodore64 brand new back then, and the technology involved in that was not.

My QT10 is an 81. Still works perfectly. This is my only lathe, use it nearly every day. Id brag about mine being the oldest but I know its not. Ive seen several people on here running mazaks from 70's!

 

[Philabuster]

My QT10 is an 81. Still works perfectly. This is my only lathe, use it nearly every day. Id brag about mine being the oldest but I know its not. Ive seen several people on here running mazaks from 70's!

I still run a 1986 Mazak QT10N ATC/MC almost daily at work. Been running it since we got it from another division back in 1995. I liked it so much that I bought the same machine for my home shop about 5 years ago and also bought it's big brother, a 1986 ST30 ATC/MC. All three machines still making parts.