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New manual lathe for all around job shop.

jraksdhs

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Location
Dover, DE USA
In the market for a 15x50 manual lathe and have narrowed my options to a clausing 8044vsj and a victor 16x60s. I got a price from Norman machine for around 43 for the clausing and had a quote from another company for the victor of around 25. Pretty substantial difference in price. Is the clausing that much better of a machine? One thing that kinda conflicts my thoughts is the weight. The victor comes in at almost 5k and the clausing is 3400. I know the Victor is slightly bigger but I wouldnt think that extra little bit would make that much difference in weight. I victor comes standard with steady and follow rest as well as a few other options like an 8 inch chuck. The Clausing the way I have it optioned is both work rests, and an Acu-Rite 300 installed. I would be buying chucks after the deal. I would need to add a DRO to the victor myself. I know its a loaded question, but what is everyones thought between these two. This machine would probably be the last lathe I purchase in this size, as Im only a one man band and never really intend to get any bigger or have employees. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks

Jason
 

steve-l

Titanium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Location
Geilenkirchen, Germany
Jason, that's a lot of money. Before you commit yourself, please look at the new LeBlond lathes first. They look really nice to me. Furthermore, most of the new lathes do not have a clutch and for a lathe in that size class, I would want a clutch and brake long before a DRO. If you're lucky you might find a late model L&S. these even used are 10 times the machine in comparison to what's being made today and these machines are very well supported by Monarch. Monarch actually still sell factory refurbished both Monarchs and L&S machines. Phone call is cheap.
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
Jason, that's a lot of money. Before you commit yourself, please look at the new LeBlond lathes first. They look really nice to me. Furthermore, most of the new lathes do not have a clutch and for a lathe in that size class, I would want a clutch and brake long before a DRO. If you're lucky you might find a late model L&S. these even used are 10 times the machine in comparison to what's being made today and these machines are very well supported by Monarch. Monarch actually still sell factory refurbished both Monarchs and L&S machines. Phone call is cheap.
looks like the Leblond 16-60 comes with hard ways and a taper attachment.
 

RC Mech

Stainless
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Location
Ontario, Canada
Of the two original choices, I’d go with the Victor and not give it a second thought.

I’ve used new Microweilys and they’re also a nice machine if you’re looking for options.
 

steve-l

Titanium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Location
Geilenkirchen, Germany
As I stated above, for that class lathe a mechanical spindle clutch and brake is essential for many reasons. This is very true if you are using an rpc for 3 phase power. Starting and stopping the large motor can sometimes stall the rpc and blow fuses. Of course there are several other advantages as well, like single point threading up against a shoulder etc.

I just reviewed both the clausing and the victor. I'm sorry, I don't see the advantage with these machines in comparison to a refurbished L&S or Monarch. Even though they all use a D1-6 spindle and a MT4 TS quill, the spec comparison is like night and day. First, with manual lathes, you MUST avoid all electronics. Without electronics, the usable lifespan well maintained can be over 100 years. Add electronics and the effective lifespan will be reduced to less than 20 years. As a reference, look at the difficulty of repairing the DC drive on a Monarch 10ee or an L&S 14 to say an L&S PowerTurn. Parts and service are non-existent. As an example of specs, the Clausing has a 3 speed spindle with a VFD. (I assure you VFD drives are no substitute for gears) The Victor has 12 speeds. The L&S PowerTurn has 24 speeds. The Victor has 7.5 HP motor, the Clausing has a 10HP motor. The PowerTurn has a 15 or 20 HP motor, The L&S cuts twice as many treads as either the Clausing or the Victor. The Victor weighs 4800 lbs, the Clausing weighs 3500 lbs. and the PowerTurn weighs at least 10,000 lbs and is all cast iron with no lower sheet metal cabinet.. Both the Clausing and the Victor has flame hardened Meehanite iron beds. The L&S has replaceable tool steel bedways. Only the L&S has a spindle clutch and brake. I could go on, but you get my drift.These machines are not even in the same league yet your cost could be much less for a used L&S or similar for a factory refurbished one. Make the phone call, you won't regret it.
 
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jraksdhs

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Location
Dover, DE USA
As I stated above, for that class lathe a mechanical spindle clutch and brake is essential for many reasons. This is very true if you are using an rpc for 3 phase power. Starting and stopping the large motor can sometimes stall the rpc and blow fuses. Of course there are several other advantages as well, like single point threading up against a shoulder etc.

I just reviewed both the clausing and the victor. I'm sorry, I don't see the advantage with these machines in comparison to a refurbished L&S or Monarch. Even though they all use a D1-6 spindle and a MT4 TS quill, the spec comparison is like night and day. First, with manual lathes, you MUST avoid all electronics. Without electronics, the usable lifespan well maintained can be over 100 years. Add electronics and the effective lifespan will be reduced to less than 20 years. As a reference, look at the difficulty of repairing the DC drive on a Monarch 10ee or an L&S 14 to say an L&S PowerTurn. Parts and service are non-existent. As an example of specs, the Clausing has a 3 speed spindle with a VFD. (I assure you VFD drives are no substitute for gears) The Victor has 12 speeds. The L&S PowerTurn has 24 speeds. The Victor has 7.5 HP motor, the Clausing has a 10HP motor. The PowerTurn has a 15 or 20 HP motor, The L&S cuts twice as many treads as either the Clausing or the Victor. The Victor weighs 4800 lbs, the Clausing weighs 3500 lbs. and the PowerTurn weighs at least 10,000 lbs and is all cast iron with no lower sheet metal cabinet.. Both the Clausing and the Victor has flame hardened Meehanite iron beds. The L&S has replaceable tool steel bedways. Only the L&S has a spindle clutch and brake. I could go on, but you get my drift.These machines are not even in the same league yet your cost could be much less for a used L&S or similar for a factory refurbished one. Make the phone call, you won't regret it.
I understand where you are coming from. When you say make the phone call, who are you speaking of?
 

jraksdhs

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Location
Dover, DE USA
looks like the Leblond 16-60 comes with hard ways and a taper attachment.

looks like the Leblond 16-60 comes with hard ways and a taper attachment.
When i wrote this post i had forgotten that i had a Leblond RKL quoted 6 months ago. Price is is around 35 equipped. I know a local shop that has a newer one so I need to put my hands on it again and give it hard look. Thanks for bringing that to me attention.
 

MCritchley

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
Milwaukee
For the money you are planning on spending you could find a good used manual lathe that will out live you.

The new modern lathes are built very light. The tailstock’s are very light and wimpy. Compare deflection when turning by the center of an old L&S and a Clausing. The compounds are a complete joke, and are built quite lightly.

If you are just doing light work then a new lathe is ok.
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
QT: (probably but they’re getting to be as rare as hen's teeth.)
Good always consider what companies are going to be there for parts 20 years down the pike.
Likely my criteria would be in this order:
What is needed/wanted?
Going to be there (in 20 years.)
hard ways
Good reputation.
Serviceability.
Price
and I really like a taper attachment.
 
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Ries

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Location
Edison Washington USA
I have never heard of modern day Monarch selling rebuilt older machines, except for 10EEs. There is certainly no mention of it on their website. Has anyone here ever bought one, or gotten a price quote?
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Location
marysville ohio
I like my LeBlond, you need to look into one for sure. another brand is Whacheon. built under license, a copy of a Mori Seki. Greer Machinery always has a good selection. I have spent 1000s of hours on one. Only thing I don't like about them is that you need to stop the spindle to reverse the lead screw. On the LeBlond lead screw reverse is on the carriage and can be changed with the spindle turning. I also have a L&S Powerturn and it is a beast! 24 speed 15HP. Any of these 3 will run circles around a Victor or Clausing.
 

jraksdhs

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Location
Dover, DE USA
I like my LeBlond, you need to look into one for sure. another brand is Whacheon. built under license, a copy of a Mori Seki. Greer Machinery always has a good selection. I have spent 1000s of hours on one. Only thing I don't like about them is that you need to stop the spindle to reverse the lead screw. On the LeBlond lead screw reverse is on the carriage and can be changed with the spindle turning. I also have a L&S Powerturn and it is a beast! 24 speed 15HP. Any of these 3 will run circles around a Victor or Clausing.
Is your Leblond a newer model and if so which one? Im going back and forth on if i want a 2 inch bore or the 3.125. I currently have a 3 inch bore Enco. Its a 1440 model and overall now a bad machine. Its got some electrical issues and needs a cross slide screw and nut, but I cant get parts anymore. My thought was to keep it for heavier work and get a small bore larger capacity machine for most of my work. My ultimate setup would be a new 3 inch bore machine, sell my enco, and get a used HLVH or clone.
 

jbacc

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 5, 2009
Location
New Jersey
What about Lion lathes imported from Europe? A YouTube guy (Topper Machine Works) recently purchased a large Lion lathe. His main reason aside from wanting a new lathe was it had a clutch. I am not sure what they cost but from his videos, it seems like a nice lathe.

My $.02 from a guy who is running a 17" Webb/Whacheon and a 15" Leblond Regal, neither with a taper attachment..
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
I guess one might add Acer and Summit to now getting a long list.
Horsepower might best relate to the kind of work being done. higher production jobber work might not care, but low production might wish to save on energy costs.
Summit 16, hard ways and 3" bore
Whacheon hard ways 2 3/64 bore
Lion hard ways,2 3/32 bore.
 
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