New Manual Lathe

[esearfoss]

I will preface that I have been reading older postings related to this topic but want to ask about a specific machine that I have not found discussed but am open to other options. Our shop is looking to possibly replace one of our current manual lathes. We currently have 5 older lathes 2 of them are 10" south bend, a toolroom sized do-all, a Clausing engine lathe, and a large Chinese lathe. All of the current lathes are older and show wear but the Chinese lathe is in the worst condition. This lathe has a spindle bore of 4.25" and we use the through spindle bore one a regular basis with 4" material. The lathe is rather large and not extremely user friendly which is somewhat understandable because of the overall size, but we need to replace it and would like to have something new that could also serve the purpose of being our primary lathe that we also use for smaller diameter jobs.

1. I know that usually a 1 tool fits all generally does not do all jobs great it does all jobs "OK"
2. We must have a through spindle bore of over 4"
3. Current bed length from chuck to the end of the bed is 78". We do not use the full length on a frequent basis but it is always nice to have the length but don't really need longer.
4. Current considerations are Weiler lathes. Do not want to really go with the Asian market as far as Chinese or Taiwanese (would consider others like Japanese). Was considering the CNC/manual capabilities of a Weiler E series. Pros? Cons? Is it better to go strictly manual lathe and keep all CNC operations on our CNC machines? We do have old timers that still strictly run manual in our shop and they would probably be the primary users. Are there other European or US based manufactures that you would consider.
5. To go a different route, if we were to replace one of our smaller engine/toolroom lathes if there is not a good 1 size fits all what brand would you go with? Weiler? Other European/US manufacturer?

I know that this is an extremely broad question, but wanted some outside input. Also the vast majority of the work we do is sub 2" but we have to keep a large lathe on hand. If there is not a good 1 size fits all that you have experience with we would probably opt to replace one of the smaller lathes.

Thanks in advance.

 

[michiganbuck]

Should be a good thread.
Weiler should be good being out of Germany, and Hass seems to sell a lot of lathes.
Clausing makes spindle bores to 4 1/8.
Does the Standard Modern S series lathe belong in the good/great lathe list?.

I'm not the lathe guy and have not run any late model lathes, so won't make any suggestions

 

[howieranger]

I will preface that I have been reading older postings related to this topic but want to ask about a specific machine that I have not found discussed but am open to other options. Our shop is looking to possibly replace one of our current manual lathes. We currently have 5 older lathes 2 of them are 10" south bend, a toolroom sized do-all, a Clausing engine lathe, and a large Chinese lathe. All of the current lathes are older and show wear but the Chinese lathe is in the worst condition. This lathe has a spindle bore of 4.25" and we use the through spindle bore one a regular basis with 4" material. The lathe is rather large and not extremely user friendly which is somewhat understandable because of the overall size, but we need to replace it and would like to have something new that could also serve the purpose of being our primary lathe that we also use for smaller diameter jobs.

1. I know that usually a 1 tool fits all generally does not do all jobs great it does all jobs "OK"
2. We must have a through spindle bore of over 4"
3. Current bed length from chuck to the end of the bed is 78". We do not use the full length on a frequent basis but it is always nice to have the length but don't really need longer.
4. Current considerations are Weiler lathes. Do not want to really go with the Asian market as far as Chinese or Taiwanese (would consider others like Japanese). Was considering the CNC/manual capabilities of a Weiler E series. Pros? Cons? Is it better to go strictly manual lathe and keep all CNC operations on our CNC machines? We do have old timers that still strictly run manual in our shop and they would probably be the primary users. Are there other European or US based manufactures that you would consider.
5. To go a different route, if we were to replace one of our smaller engine/toolroom lathes if there is not a good 1 size fits all what brand would you go with? Weiler? Other European/US manufacturer?

I know that this is an extremely broad question, but wanted some outside input. Also the vast majority of the work we do is sub 2" but we have to keep a large lathe on hand. If there is not a good 1 size fits all that you have experience with we would probably opt to replace one of the smaller lathes.

Thanks in advance.

Lion lathes list several lathes with 4in+ spindle bore in various lengths. They are made in Bulgaria and seem to have a good reputation. There is a US distributor

 

[Brett W]

Look for Oil field type lathes. They usually have big spindle through bores to accommodate some of those hydraulic shafts.

 

[L Vanice]

Look for Oil field type lathes. They usually have big spindle through bores to accommodate some of those hydraulic shafts.

They may even have a pair of chucks, one at each end of the spindle to keep long tubes from whipping. That has to be a very valuable safety feature.

Larry

 

[esearfoss]

So after looking into this more, it looks that we are probably better off replacing one of the smaller lathes that we used on a daily basis rather than the large lathe and hope to use it as an everyday machine for small parts (kind of figured this was going to be the case). That being said, still interested in a Weiler and was considering a E50 or E series lathe. They call these their hybrid lathes and market them as small batch or single part production lathes with CNC capabilities as well as being fully operational as a manual lathe. Do any of you have experience with these machines? If so would love to hear how well it operates as both styles. Also if any of you have one in the Capital District of New York State, would love to have the opportunity to stop by and take a look at the operations of the lathe.

Thanks,

 

[esearfoss]

They may even have a pair of chucks, one at each end of the spindle to keep long tubes from whipping. That has to be a very valuable safety feature.

Larry

If we were to go with the larger lathe, I do like the idea of the second chuck. Had not really been exposed to this style of lathe prior to starting to look into them now.

 

[Kingbob]

we have purchased 4 new kingston lathes (taiwan) in the last 10 or so years and are happy enough with them that we are currently considering adding a 5th one. They are all 17" x 40" with 10" chucks. That being said, I was able to put my hands on a weiler at imts last year and was absolutely blown away. I've run manual lathes for almost 25 years and have never touched such a fine machine. From what the guys in the booth told me, one can have almost 3 kingstons for the cost of one weiler so I doubt I'll ever own one but I will forever want one. Let us know what you end up doing. The guy in the booth said it's mostly the us navy that buys their manuals, I guess because they are the only ones with deep enough pockets for a $80k small manual lathe.

 

[alphonso]

Have you considered Summit?

Precision Metal Lathes | Summit Machine Tool

Summit 22'' metal lathe for sale. Summit Machine Tool Mfg LLC carries metal lathes, CNC lathes, and many machine tools for your shop. Get a quote today!

summitmt.com

The ones I ran were pretty stout machines. 45 years ago.

 

[esearfoss]

we have purchased 4 new kingston lathes (taiwan) in the last 10 or so years and are happy enough with them that we are currently considering adding a 5th one. They are all 17" x 40" with 10" chucks. That being said, I was able to put my hands on a weiler at imts last year and was absolutely blown away. I've run manual lathes for almost 25 years and have never touched such a fine machine. From what the guys in the booth told me, one can have almost 3 kingstons for the cost of one weiler so I doubt I'll ever own one but I will forever want one. Let us know what you end up doing. The guy in the booth said it's mostly the us navy that buys their manuals, I guess because they are the only ones with deep enough pockets for a $80k small manual lathe.

Do you know what model of Weiler you were looking at that was 80K? Was it an E series?

 

[Kingbob]

it was a big manual no servos, it had either a 12" or 15" chuck on it and a longish bed, at least 72". I did just go look at their website to try and figure out what it was but I don't see any all manual lathes listed that are big enough to fit my memory. If you get a quote let us know

 

[drcoelho]

I've got a Weiler Praktikant VCD, love this lathe...mine is more like a toolroom lathe size wise, but totally recommend Weiler, they make very fine machines.

 

[j-weiler]

Just logged in for the first time in awhile and this thread caught my attention. @Kingbob, the lathe that you looked at in the Weiler booth during IMTS was a DA260 conventional manual lathe. The other machines in the booth included an E70 with an 8.5" thru bore and 118" center distance and an E50 with 3.2" thru bore and 78" center distance.

@esearfoss- the Weiler E50 model is something to consider. This model is offered with 3.2", 5" and 6.5" spindle bores. With the 5" and 6.5" sizes, they are equipped with both front and rear chucks, usually 16" diameter. Operation is very simple with the user friendly conversational control. If you are running small lot sizes, the E-Series could be a good option to look at.

 

[esearfoss]

I and 2 other guys are actually going to a near by shop tomorrow to take a look at a few E series lathes. Interested to see if they are a good fit for our application.

 

[esearfoss]

Well we went to look at 7 of these machines the other day and I have to say the were fantastic. What is not so fantastic is the price. For and E50 your looking in the $250k ball park with basic options and the smallest through spindle size. That being said we were wanting to explore the option. Loved the concept and if I could only have 1 lathe in my life I would strongly consider one. That being said at that price and for the parts we do, we will probably just go the CNC route and also purchase something like a Kingston manual. FYI this shop that had 7 Weilers said that they could hold sub .0005" tolerance with machines that were about 10 to 12 years old and the newer ones they had were just as good. They were also taking .125" deep of cut on 304 SS and taking it down from about 4 inch to about 2 inch OD at about 3ft long.

Kingbob, what kind of pricing were you seeing on Kingston manuals?

 

[EmGo]

FYI this shop that had 7 Weilers said that they could hold sub .0005" tolerance

Horseshit. When people start talking like this, run. It's an engine lathe. Sure, the lathe maybe can but the operator and the room temp and the tool wear and the material cannot. Maybe on a Hardinge, not anything bigger.

They were also taking .125" deep of cut on 304 SS

Be still, my heart.

 

[Kingbob]

Well we went to look at 7 of these machines the other day and I have to say the were fantastic. What is not so fantastic is the price. For and E50 your looking in the $250k ball park with basic options and the smallest through spindle size. That being said we were wanting to explore the option. Loved the concept and if I could only have 1 lathe in my life I would strongly consider one. That being said at that price and for the parts we do, we will probably just go the CNC route and also purchase something like a Kingston manual. FYI this shop that had 7 Weilers said that they could hold sub .0005" tolerance with machines that were about 10 to 12 years old and the newer ones they had were just as good. They were also taking .125" deep of cut on 304 SS and taking it down from about 4 inch to about 2 inch OD at about 3ft long.

Kingbob, what kind of pricing were you seeing on Kingston manuals?

last one we got was early 2021, a 17" with dro and taper attachment was in the low to mid 30's. Just for reference a similar sized and equipped weiler manual lathe was verbally quoted to me at around $120k, well well well past the point of diminishing returns for a manual lathe.
I think I'll always want one in the same way I'll always want a koenigsegg, but will never have one for the same reason I drive a toyota.

 

[esearfoss]

Horseshit. When people start talking like this, run. It's an engine lathe. Sure, the lathe maybe can but the operator and the room temp and the tool wear and the material cannot. Maybe on a Hardinge, not anything bigger.



Be still, my heart.

Just relaying what I was told. As far as the cut I know this was occurring but the tolerance could just be blowing smoke. I will point out though that this shop was very particular about how all their machines were set even these weilers were grouted in for leveling and the maintenance was on top of things, even the older machines looked brand new. They did have a E70 they said that was more in the 1 to 2 thou range but that it had been crashed pretty hard.

 

[EmGo]

Just relaying what I was told.

People who talk like that have never actually run production on an engine lathe. Hell, they've probaly never made three parts the same on an engine lathe. It's like people who talk tenths in a non-airconditioned room. It's stupid. It'd be like me talking about the time I won at LeMans. Well, I read a book about it ....

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just relaying what I was told. As far as the cut I know this was occurring but the tolerance could just be blowing smoke. I will point out though that this shop was very particular about how all their machines were set even these weilers were grouted in for leveling and the maintenance was on top of things, even the older machines looked brand new. They did have a E70 they said that was more in the 1 to 2 thou range but that it had been crashed pretty hard.

Grouting in machines isn’t such a good idea. What happens when you want to re-level the lathe ? If you don’t want an un-sightly gap or a trap for turnings between the foundation and the lathe base tap in some timbers that can be removed if need be.

Regards Tyrone