New Member; First Post; Interesting Old Lathe

[Joe Babbitt]

Hi. This is my first post here. I'm really a collector of antique woodworking machinery but every now & then I acquire an old metalworking machine to restore. Recently I bought some lineshaft equipment out of a closed shop in Newark. I also acquired a C. A. Mann metalworking lathe. Research shows that the Mann company only operated from 1885 through 1905 in Providence RI. I was only able to find one other example of this lathe. It's (mostly) disassembled in my shop now in preparation for restoration. Any information greatly appreciated. Here are some pics:

Despite it's rusty and neglected condition - I have yet to find a siezed bolt. Everything is stiff but moves. Items of note - double 'v' ways with the head & tailstock riding on one and the crosslide riding on the other. I'll be curious to see what's at the end of the spindle. Hopefully it's threaded. I'll post progress updates as they come along. Thanks for your interest.

 

[SouthBendModel34]

Cutaways on both sides of the bed?

Welcome to the forum.

It's interesting to see that there are cutaways of the edges of the bed on either side of the headstock. At first glance, these appear to be clearances for the flat belt to go downward! However, they do not appear to be wide enough to allow all the steps of the cone pulley to be used.

If you enjoy tinkering, this will be great for you! Wonder what color it was originally? Wonder if it had pinstriping?

 

[sealark37]

Welcome Aboard!

You have found an interesting machine. I am working on a conehead Hamilton, found half-buried in an abandoned shop, that appears to be of the same vintage. Your pictures are excellent. We would very much like to see some of your other projects as well as the progress on this one. Regards, Clark

 

[Joe Babbitt]

I believe, based on what I can see under the rust that the original color scheme was black with gold detailing. The only other one I've seen in picture was repainted light blue with red detailing. I'm leaning towards black & gold. I'm not sure what the cutaways are for. The belt design is to run upwards & to the rear & there is an interesting gear set up inside the headstock. I also have the countershaft but didn;t get pics of it yet. I run flat belt machinery in my shop.

 

[Billtodd]

Any idea what the slot in the headstock is for? Not present on this example : http://www.lathes.co.uk/mann/

It's not unlike a Seneca Falls Star:

Page Title


Bill

 

[SouthBendModel34]

Well, there you have the answer to the cutaways on the sides of the bed: right there in Tony's lathes site, it says: "Although offered with treadle-driven flywheel assembly, the example below lacks a hole in its headstock-end leg to accommodate this and would have been driven from either a separate wall or ceiling-mounted countershaft, or a factory's roof-fitted line shafting."

The cutaways must be a holdover from the treadle version!

The tumble reverse has something in common with a Myers lathe. The tumble gears are inboard of the left side of the headstock, but the lever is outboard of same. Up until now, the Myers was the only one I knew to have such an arrangement. (Not to be confused with a Seneca Falls where the tumble gears are inside and the reverse lever works in a vertical slot.)

JRR

 

[Joe Babbitt]

If the 'tumble gears' are the forward & reverse gears they are located inside the headstock. I'll get a picture of them next time I work on the lathe. You can see in this picture

There is a small hole on the left side of the end of the headstock. There is actually another hole similarly located on the right side. These are oil accesses for the spindles for these gears. The lever on the lower front of the heafdstock is the forward/reverse shifter and there is a bronze yoke that moves the gears inside.

 

[john holcomb]

on display

I purchased a identical lathe severial years ago but in much better condition and has an electric motor drive attached. The lathe is currently on display and operational in the line shaft powered machine shop of the West Michigan Old Engine Club in Scottville MI. It can be seen every year the first weekend in Aug. at the annual show. Good luck and let us know what you come up with for change gears ours currently only cuts a 20TPI.

John

 

[Marty Feldman]

Welcome, Joe. You're going to enjoy this forum.
Your photographs are clear and informative.

 

[Joe Babbitt]

Thanks for the welcomes everyone. Other projects... Most are WW Machines but here's a few metalworking machines:

Keller 3B

Atlas 10"

Another little power hacksaw:

Haysradt 'Sensitive' Drill Press:

& here's one a little off the beaten track.....

 

[Joe in NH]

Nice little white "sensitive drill." You even have the lower table which for some reason is usually missing on these. Sometimes a cone was used in place of the table.

Is there a name on that? I have one "Worcester Polytechnic Institute" made as a student project about 1912. A course catalog in the Worcester Public Library Archive shows a "line up" of these drill presses in various states of completion. The other I own is "excelsior" cast in raised letters in an arc across the base. Nothing else. I've seen other attributions of these DPs including Leland-Gifford, Wm. Barr, Francis Reed, others.

You do nice restoration work though. ALMOST too good to use.

Joe

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

Well, there you have the answer to the cutaways on the sides of the bed: right there in Tony's lathes site, it says: "Although offered with treadle-driven flywheel assembly, the example below lacks a hole in its headstock-end leg to accommodate this and would have been driven from either a separate wall or ceiling-mounted countershaft, or a factory's roof-fitted line shafting."

The cutaways must be a holdover from the treadle version!

The tumble reverse has something in common with a Myers lathe. The tumble gears are inboard of the left side of the headstock, but the lever is outboard of same. Up until now, the Myers was the only one I knew to have such an arrangement. (Not to be confused with a Seneca Falls where the tumble gears are inside and the reverse lever works in a vertical slot.)

JRR

We have not seen the lathe's legs yet- it may have originally been treadle powered (and therefore the bed cutaways may not be a "holdover" at all).
Having the reverse gears mounted inside the headstock with the lever outside is a rather common design. Look through Ken Cope's lathe book and you will see several examples. Also, note that while the Mann lathe shown on the UK site has an external reverse lever, Joe Babbit's example and the lathe shown in the engraving in Cope's book do not.
I am guessing that the slot in the headstock and the lever mounted to the front wing of the bed both might have something to do with shifting the reverse gears, but I can't determine how they function from the photos.
Andy

 

[Joe Babbitt]

I have the cone for the lower table as well. The manufacturer is actually Haysradt & Croy. I haven;t found any info on that manufacturer. However the design is the same as Washburn Shops sensitive DP and parts are interchangeable.

These machines are in regular usage - including the funky red one. Not the Keller though - I have a weakness for power hacksaws & I have about a dozen of them. I have a Marvel #2 which is a regular user. Marvels are my favorites. Anyway - machines in my shop are there to work whether they're restored or not.

 

[Coppertogold]

New member, first reply, interesting old lathe

Hi Joe,
I too am a new member and enjoyed your photos and comments about your restorations of old wood and metalworking machinery.
I have an "American" wood lathe, 10' long bed that was probably used for porch column turning. It will turn 14" over the bed and 6' 8" center to center.
The headstock is set up to turn 80" outboard on a 2' faceplate.
It has a four pulley cone and independent jack shaft run by a 3hp. 220V 1 ph. motor.
The jack shaft and headstock are Babbitt bearing.
I used this lathe from 1985 through 1999 after adding left and right-hand metal spinning rests and roller/levers which I designed and built with the help of a metal spinner and machinist.
The lathe has been in storage for the past 12 years and I will not need it in the future.
I have pictures of it but have not figured out how to post them on this site.(the photos are in bitmap format)
What I'm getting to is, can you tell me where I can find information regarding its manufacture, age, use and worth? I have tried e-Bay, Google, Yahoo, Metalworking links and this site and can't find an "American" brand name.
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Coppertogold

 

[Joe Babbitt]

There were two 'American' wood working machine companies. There was American Wood Working Machine Company' and 'American Sawmill Machinery Company' and they both made all sorts of large ww equipment. For factual type stuff I'd look on Vintage Machinery.com VintageMachinery.org - Welcome The machines are listed by manufacturer and there are lots of pictures, catalogs & other type stuff about ww machinery. For info from owners & etc look on OWWM.org Old Woodworking Machines • Index page You may find people using very similar lathes. Such a shame you live in Tucson or I'd offer to help you relocate that lathe out of storage. And into my shop. Just for fun - here's a pic of a flat belt wood lathe I did last year. 8' between centers:

 

[Coppertogold]

Joe,
Wow! Awesome. Thanks for the prompt reply. You must really enjoy your work as I have enjoyed mine.
Any tips on resizing Bmp. photos for this site? I'm quite inept in this medium but willing to endeavor towards satisfactory results. I use a Mac, which I'm told is very intuitive, but my intuition seems to be lacking.
I'll check the references you have provided.
Thanks

 

[Coppertogold]

Joe,
Thanks for the vintage machinery thread.
I found three sets of photos that I could compare favorably with my lathe. They are at
vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=8478 , photos #1,#3 and #4, ""=4009 , photos #1 and #2, and ""=1379 , photos #1 and #2.
In ""=8478 #1, the bed construction and leg castings are nearly identical except there is no rack on my bed. #3 tailstock is very similar. #4 "American" type face identical.
In ""=4009 #1, headstock oil reservoirs are nearly identical. #2, tailstock nearly identical.
In ""=1379 #1, legs and bed nearly identical. #2, headstock and "American" casting similar except for pillow blocks.
I'm not an expert but the similarities these older lathes have with mine give some credence to the story I was told when I bought it, and that was that it was built before or near the turn of the twentieth century for turning porch columns.
Still haven't figured out how to post a photo with a comment. The only photos I have of it in operation are scans of prints.
I would love to relocate it with someone who can appreciate it. Know any buffs out west?
Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the research and bridge building.

 

[jim rozen]

There's a really good chance that the belt, when set on the largest cone step, will
clear the bed even though the cutout only covers the two smaller steps.

 

[Patrick Black]

OK, I'll ask

So what does the red one do? Coffee Grinder?

Pat Black

 

[Joe Babbitt]

You are correct Pat - coffee grinder. Shown here with a (more or less) matching meat grinder.....