New Old Elgin Lathe

[Bradford72]

Hey all, I just got an Elgin lathe (plate says: Elgin Tool Works, 1770 Bertreau Ave At Ravenswood Ave, Chicago, ILL).

I'm sure it's obsolete, but perhaps there are ways I can modify it, or modify modern tooling to fit.

It was only $250, been sitting in an old semi trailer for years, and is intact. Surface rust, but even the grub screws came out no problem.

I did have to relocate a family of mice, from the head stock casing, but they'll be fine.

So...I'm looking for info, tooling, manuals...any and everything that y'all might be able to inform me about this lovely older gal.

I'm in the process of taking her apart, and getting ready to soak what I can in Evaporust.

Anything else will get scotchbrite and WD-40, or a mix of 50/50 lamp oil and synthetic motor oil, which I generally use as a go to bench oil.

Thanks loads in advance, and look forward to hearing from y'all!

 

[Tom A]

Pitchers, please :~)

 

[Bradford72]

I took a video while I was taking it apart last night.

https://youtu.be/50VnIe_6tEg

Maybe this will help?

Thanks again!

 

[L Vanice]

What major parts are missing? I did not see a tailstock or slide rest or collet closer in the video.

Does it take 5C collets? Is the swing 9 inches? If yes, I have a 9" Elgin tailstock, lever collet closer and slide rest that I would sell.

Is the spindle nose in terrible shape, as the video indicates? I have a complete Elgin headstock with a good spindle.

Larry

 

[dundeeshopnut]

Looks like a wood lathe from here. Dude! You really need to clean your camera lens!!!

 

[Bradford72]

Lol...yes, I'm sorry about the poor camera quality!

I replaced the back glass on my phone about a year ago, and the lenses started binding, and won't focus properly.

The lathe is actually mostly there.
I have the collet holder and tail stock, and the tool holder.

It's definitely a metal lathe.

I'm really just missing collets and the chuck (non threaded). I'm assuming they're 5c collets.
From what I've read online, that's what at least some of the early models of Elgin lathes use.

The spindle nose is actually in quite good shape. There's just some surface rust...and as we've established, my camera sucks.

It's really in remarkably good shape.

Unsure about the state of the electricals, but I can always go with a newer motor that works on a 240v line, and run new wiring.

I'm definitely looking for any and all documentation that might be available, so I can see what I need to do about powering this thing up.

I'll see if I can get better pics/video posted up.

I'll also look for model numbers, or some other designation that might help elucidate what kind of tooling I might need.

Thanks loads!

 

[dundeeshopnut]

I stand corrected. Where is the leadscrew on this machine? I hope you have the carriage for it too!

 

[Bradford72]

Elgin Lathe

Just found this.

This is pretty much exactly my lathe, but I'm missing the coolant dispenser (though I have the mount for it), and the doors with nice collet rack...and the collets.

My collet holder does not have a lever, but a simple hand wheel that tightens the collets.

There's electrical in the head stock housing, perhaps for the coolant pump?

I'll look for more markings when I get home in a bit.

 

[Bradford72]

Also, my cross slide is much less of a turret, and more just a basic tool compound cross slide.

 

[IrbyJones]

Bradford72,
I sent you a Private Message on some Elgin lathe info.
Irby

 

[Bradford72]

IrbyJones
I just checked, and there's nothing in my "Inbox".

Not very savvy with this site yet, but I'd think it would just be there?

I'll keep an eye out for it, and thanks for that!

If the message system doesn't work on this site, I'll post my email address, and you can send the info there.

 

[L Vanice]

I stand corrected. Where is the leadscrew on this machine? I hope you have the carriage for it too!

This Elgin was designed quite like a Hardinge Brothers TR59 and dates to the WWII years. There is no carriage or lead screw. It uses a slide rest with longitudinal and cross feed that clamps to the bed with a T-bolt.

Larry

 

[Bradford72]

Larry, thank you!

I knew about the Hardinge take over of Elgin, but I couldn't find more info about vintage lathes of either name.

I'm not a machinist, but I've spent a fair bit of time over the course of roughly ten years learning to use a lathe to (eventually) make quite detailed parts for brass musical instruments, and even the odd taper tool, here and there.

I'm not looking for anything that can cut threads, just very basic tapers, and most importantly, concentric, pretty things.

 

[Bradford72]

The website I posted earlier shows a much cleaner, more complete version of what I have.

I'm not looking to do a complete restoration (ala Had Tool Rescue...though I'm a huge fan!), I'm simply looking to make this as functional as possible.

Mostly turning brass, some mild steel, or higher carbon steel I can harden later.

Nothing super intricate.

 

[IrbyJones]

IrbyJones
I just checked, and there's nothing in my "Inbox".

Not very savvy with this site yet, but I'd think it would just be there?

I'll keep an eye out for it, and thanks for that!

If the message system doesn't work on this site, I'll post my email address, and you can send the info there.

I just looked and it's not in my "Sent" mailbox either. Heck, wonder where it went! I was just sending you links to Tony's site (Lathes + Machine Tool Archive) for Elgin and Cataract lathes in case you hadn't seen them.

And a comment that slides, headstocks, and tailstocks for Elgin and Cataract lathes all fit each other because the lathe beds tops are shaped the same. The centerline heights vary depending on if they are for the 7" swing or 9" swing lathes, and even then the headstocks and tailstocks don't always line up exactly. And the slides for the 7" lathes are slightly different than the 9" lathes, but can work.

Irby

 

[IrbyJones]

Oh, a quick note. In your movie, I saw what looked like the bolts were out of the front bearing retainer. I wouldn't recommend you try and remove the spindle when you clean out the headstock. The felt seals inside it are a royal pain to get out and are likely to be stiff and get damaged and you can't find replacements. I have the felt to make new ones but it's a pain to get the correct clearance on the spindle when you cut them out! And fiddling with the bearings is also tricky.

Irby

 

[L Vanice]

Larry, thank you!

I knew about the Hardinge take over of Elgin, but I couldn't find more info about vintage lathes of either name.

I'm not a machinist, but I've spent a fair bit of time over the course of roughly ten years learning to use a lathe to (eventually) make quite detailed parts for brass musical instruments, and even the odd taper tool, here and there.

I'm not looking for anything that can cut threads, just very basic tapers, and most importantly, concentric, pretty things.

Tony has a lot of information on Elgin, and some is correct. Elgin Machine Tools

Keep in mind that the Elgin Tool Works in Elgin, IL was a completely different company and made different machines from the company of the same name started by Franklin Hardinge in Chicago around 1930. And the Elgin Tool Works Division of Hardinge Inc. had nothing to do with Hardinge Brothers Inc. of Elmira, NY beyond the obvious common link to Franklin Hardinge and the Chicago building where the Hardinge Brothers Inc. machine builders resided before the Elmira move and where the 1930+ Elgin stuff was made. Hardinge Inc. of Chicago was mostly a manufacturer of oil burner conversion units for old coal furnaces, invented by Franklin Hardinge, known as a "millionaire Chicago oil burner man" in July, 1929.

If you plan to make mouthpieces for brass instruments, you will want a T-rest and a set of mid-size woodturning tools. Brass is very easy to turn by hand, and curves are easier to turn by hand than by using the slide rest. Brass turning tools should have a flat top (no back rake). You can also make a hand knurling tool that can do straight and angled knurling on curved surfaces. It can add interest to otherwise plain turned brass parts. The pictures include a T-rest for a 9" Hardinge or Elgin lathe and a hand knurling tool. I made both. The brass parts are just to demonstrate what you can do with the tool.

Larry

 

[Bradford72]

Wow, that's great info!
Thanks so much!!

Irby, yes, I did take them out, but I wasn't planning on disassembling the head stock. I just wanted to get as much rust off as possible, so I thought having that assembly as loose as possible might help me get in there. I'll put them back asap!

Larry, definitely plan on making mouthpieces.

From what I've gleaned from mouthpiece makers, turning mouthpieces is mostly done with collets, and using the tool holder on the compound slide, and tools held in the tail stock for cup shapes, throats and backbores.

I have seen a few makers use a tool rest for minor hand adjustments inside the cup to remove material that a player might want done for a specific reason (comfort, blow, sound quality, etc), but I've not seen them turn the exteriors by hand.

I think it's mostly due to the fact that they want the exterior of their product to be easily recognizable, and repeatability is much easier to achieve with pre-shaped cutters.

That's not too say I wouldn't try it!!

I'm game for about anything, after I get this thing running!

Thanks once again for the wealth of info!

 

[Bradford72]

By the way, the lathe that's pictured first on that site (described as "circa 1940's") is exactly what my lathe is.

I'm just missing the doors, and the chuck type attachment that's shown in the picture.

I have ONE collet that was in the machine, and what looks like a carbide blade brazed onto steel for a cutter in the holder.

Otherwise, that's all I have.

I'm definitely looking for the goodies that go with my lathe, so anyone that was offering parts for sale, please message me!

Have a good weekend y'all!