New Shop Wiring & Finishing

[thermite]

Here in the Midwest Commie Capital, MN, code doesn't even require a separate disconnect at the machine as long as the panel is in sight of said machine.

On that particular nit.... putting disconnects right at the operator's hand, instead of in a big s**t-ugly box on the backside of a machine, got EASIER.. once I (yazzz, "slow-learner" sometimes..) twigged to WHY the "rotary disconnect" tribe used a 5 mm square actuating rod that "floats" though a hub at arbitrary spacing.

One hole and the guts go into a big box inside the lathe or mill.

Rotary knob, escutcheon, and lock-out tab live neatly on the surface, operator side.

So "Old Iron" can do it same way so many "modern" OEM's do it.

And/or.. each box with a twist-lock outlet at the wall can have its own rotary disconnect inlined ahead of it, lock-outable, and visually obvious.

Rotary disconnect can be rotated with a simple forked pole if yah want 'em on the overhead. No ladder required. Hubbells are not as cooperative.

 

[Scruffy887]

Copper pipe for air lines is the way to go. I made the mistake of using PVC once, had chunks blowing off and chasing me around the shop.

I have gray PVC all through my shop, 20,000 sq ft. 35 years now. No explosions. Currently have a tiny hissing leak up near the ceiling. Only makes the sound when system is pressurized. That is the only time I remember it.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

I had a boss that insisted PVC would be fine. When it blew, it took out the windshield of his boat rather than my head, so it worked out okay


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A real attention getter, I'm sure.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

I have gray PVC all through my shop, 20,000 sq ft. 35 years now. No explosions. Currently have a tiny hissing leak up near the ceiling. Only makes the sound when system is pressurized. That is the only time I remember it.

You're lucky. I had explosions twice. I then ripped it all out and replaced with copper. The second explosion tossed a shut off valve so close to my head I heard it whistle by.

 

[Archer120x]

I absolutely hate black pipe air systems. It's fine if you have a dryer (which is a requirement for any air system, really) but every one I've worked on was all rusted out and the fittings were twisted and leaking in very inconvenient places.


1/2" copper is $1 per foot at home depot. 1" is $3 per foot. We used 1" copper pipe from the dry receiver all around the shop with knockoff shark bites every 20 feet. No leaks. Any drops are super easy too.

PVC explodes.

PEX is okay but it doesn't straighten out and takes a lot of brackets to make it look half decent against a wall.

Weld on bungs are the easiest way to utilize black pipe. Shark bites are crap.

 

[david n]

I have gray PVC all through my shop, 20,000 sq ft. 35 years now. No explosions. Currently have a tiny hissing leak up near the ceiling. Only makes the sound when system is pressurized. That is the only time I remember it.

You're lucky.....................my first shop had a blow out.....................big bang and sharp plastic shrapnel .....................

I ran copper .....................easy to work with and easy to change.......................

 

[thermite]

Only makes the sound when system is pressurized.

That part could appear to make a certain amount of sense?



Using it at all? Much less-so?

Even so... the thick-walled grey does seem to be more durable. It is used all OVER Hong Kong where we run two water supplies to each unit. Potable water and seawater. The seawater is for flushing toilets, but metal pipe doesn't like it.

The gain is not having to pay upriver mainland Chinese to flush THEIR toilets more often to provide what we then treat for our (allegedly) potable water.

Mostly used for washing.

We then DRINK bottled water, of course!

Water-challenged California? There's your future!

 

[BT Fabrication]

I’m torn... I can buy 125 AMP/ 14 slot sub-panels for $40 at Home Depot. Pretty easy to put three of those up for 1/10th the price of running wireway. That means three long runs of 4 gauge wire in EMT, then a bunch of short conduit runs from the sub panels. Then again, I’m not in love with pulling wire or bending conduit.

Buss Bar is a cool idea, I’d probably do that if I was spending someone else’s money

I’ll get some pricing on gutters. So far I’ve just been digging for prices on-line.




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those cheaper loadcenters are only rated to 300V, so by code anything 3 phase needs to be in an enclosure that is seperated 3 phase and rated up to 600V.

 

[thermite]

those cheaper loadcenters are only rated to 300V, so by code anything 3 phase needs to be in an enclosure that is seperated 3 phase and rated up to 600V.

Meah.. I certainly class them a "sub-optimal investment", as previously stated..

And "yes" as to separation.

But... classification?

"Depends".

"South 48", our 2XX ONLY .. 3-Phase system has nothing at the consumer end that reaches the 300 V class upper bound. Now-common "Wye" last-leg runs are at least "nominally" 208 VAC, hence lower potential than our 1-P 240 VAC CT to Earth "split phase" service.

Oddly, in used-but-good, I've gotten LOWER prices on 600 V class - ex-Canada, yet - than 300 V class.

I'll "guess" that Canadian Code is less tolerant as to re-use of "pulls" as well?
Or mayhap just has a slower-moving market that NRi bothered to import them?

Square-D goods. Of course. So I use it.

 

[mmurray70]

Using Pex pipe here, ran it in the walls when I built my shop. No leaks or expolosions yet. Pex has burst pressure over 500lbs.

PVC can take the pressure in theory but oils make it brittle. Oil comes in PE containers so I feel pretty safe with PEX.

 

[SeymourDumore]

those cheaper loadcenters are only rated to 300V, so by code anything 3 phase needs to be in an enclosure that is seperated 3 phase and rated up to 600V.

Sorry, what did I miss?
While the OP did not mention what he's got for power, my guess is it's 120/208 Wye.
3PH, single phase or 120V loads need not be separated in that system.
Them panels - cheesy as they may be - will do just fine by the code.

 

[SeymourDumore]

PVC can take the pressure in theory but oils make it brittle.

So does UV.

 

[thermite]

Sorry, what did I miss?

Not you/we. He.

Canadian grid one-step back of basic wall outlets isn't the same as US grid is all. Few are.

See also Oceania.

 

[G00 Proto]

I should have stated my incoming power... as many amps of household 240 V power as I want . $30k to get another leg. I run individual RPCs at each machine.

Right now I’m leaning towards bringing in 400 AMPS to a main breaker panel with 3 100 AMP breakers. I’ll run gutter all the way around the shop and feed 125 AMP panels on three of the walls. Then bring the individual circuits from the sub-panels back into the gutter and drop out of the gutter with EMT to the individual outlets. That should give me maximum flexibility, with minimum dollars spent on heavy gage wire running around the shop. I’ll run individual conductor wire (well labeled and bundled with zip ties) throughout, with the exception of SO cord from the outlet (or RPC disconnect) to the machine.

I’m still leaning towards copper. It’s expensive, but I like the way it looks. It always works, and truth be told, I really enjoy sweat soldering copper.

I’m liking the idea of running gloss white tin on the inside of the shop. It’s so freaking gray and dark in Idaho for half the year, the more light the better. Plus, OSB is $20 a sheet which closes the cost gap, especially after trim and paint.

I’ll probably spray foam. The guy from MN is all wet when he says ID is easy weather . I’m colder here than when I lived in northern MN... winters are cold like Montana and wet like Washington. I just came inside from being out working in it all day... spent ten minutes trying to find an extension cord so I could use my hot pad in my Jacuzzi .


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[SeymourDumore]

I should have stated my incoming power... as many amps of household 240 V power as I want ..... I run individual RPCs at each machine.

That means you'll still be running 4 wires to each subpanel ( load center ), except the colors can be 2xBlack, White and Green.
The "gutter" can be 2" EMT to the load centers, but please forget that 125A shit!!!
Since you're using RPC-s, just go with a nice 200A or more GE plug-in panel that has a bunch of circuits!!!

(Disclaimer on the GE panel, for some reason I despise SquareD. Dunno why, but I just hate it. Hated it from the getgo back 30+ years when I was exposed to it day after day ... )

 

[thermite]

That means you'll still be running 4 wires to each subpanel ( load center ), except the colors can be 2xBlack, White and Green.
The "gutter" can be 2" EMT to the load centers, but please forget that 125A shit!!!
Since you're using RPC-s, just go with a nice 200A or more GE plug-in panel that has a bunch of circuits!!!

(Disclaimer on the GE panel, for some reason I despise SquareD. Dunno why, but I just hate it. Hated it from the getgo back 30+ years when I was exposed to it day after day ... )

No "hate" for GE / Bryant here.

Never was all that hard to discard them and replace with Square-D.



You want to grumble, take note that Square-D's owner, Schneider of France - ALSO owns several of their "traditional" cheap competitors!

And that the Square-D "Homeline" goods are absolute GARBAGE!

"QO" is still good value for money, somewhere over 60 years and counting since we went over to it, exclusively, our clan.

 

[alphonso]

My only problem with QO breakers is that sometime back they went to plastic anchor clamps instead of steel. I've had to replace several breakers because of those clamps breaking off..

 

[Garwood]

I should have stated my incoming power... as many amps of household 240 V power as I want . $30k to get another leg. I run individual RPCs at each machine.

Right now I’m leaning towards bringing in 400 AMPS to a main breaker panel with 3 100 AMP breakers. I’ll run gutter all the way around the shop and feed 125 AMP panels on three of the walls. Then bring the individual circuits from the sub-panels back into the gutter and drop out of the gutter with EMT to the individual outlets. That should give me maximum flexibility, with minimum dollars spent on heavy gage wire running around the shop. I’ll run individual conductor wire (well labeled and bundled with zip ties) throughout, with the exception of SO cord from the outlet (or RPC disconnect) to the machine.

I’m still leaning towards copper. It’s expensive, but I like the way it looks. It always works, and truth be told, I really enjoy sweat soldering copper.

I’m liking the idea of running gloss white tin on the inside of the shop. It’s so freaking gray and dark in Idaho for half the year, the more light the better. Plus, OSB is $20 a sheet which closes the cost gap, especially after trim and paint.

I’ll probably spray foam. The guy from MN is all wet when he says ID is easy weather . I’m colder here than when I lived in northern MN... winters are cold like Montana and wet like Washington. I just came inside from being out working in it all day... spent ten minutes trying to find an extension cord so I could use my hot pad in my Jacuzzi .


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Something about 33 degrees and rain/high humidity chills you to the bone.

I'd rather have 20's for daytime highs than mid 30's because the moisture is what chills you to the core.

 

[thermite]

My only problem with QO breakers is that sometime back they went to plastic anchor clamps instead of steel. I've had to replace several breakers because of those clamps breaking off..

I've recently bought several new ones. 2-Pole & 3-pole. I haven't seen that yet.

"Homeline", OTOH.. bought a few 1-P by ACCIDENT.

I did say "garbidge"?

 

[darron]

For air, I have been using the Lowes/Home Depot flexible hose. It says it's PVC, but it's not the hard stuff that will blow sharp shards at you. They also say the covers are "oil resistant" for whatever that's worth. I've been using this stuff for 10+ years in a shop environment and longer personally. I've got some hoses that were my dad's... probably 30 years old at least... they still seem just fine. I've never had a hose leak.

I use standard quick-connect fittings too. I've got a couple really old fittings in my system now that are leakers... but extremely slow. Before I moved shop and got a bad fitting or two someplace these would hold pressure for 3 days after turning off the compressor.

I got tired of my christmas tree of T connectors and fittings and machined a 13 position manifold lately with a built in gauge and individual ball valves (off the shelf valves). Works great. (Currently only using 7 positions) Whenever I needed air, I'd just go grab a 100' or 50' hose from Lowes, some quick connect fittings, and another T. Now I just run from the manifold.