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What's new

New to me 18" CBB

grounding

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 1, 2021
Bought this beauty about a month ago to accompany my 10ee. I came with all the original chucks, faceplates, steady rest, taper attachment and the original manual! Also came with a Hardinge collet chuck. I have the original motor which is out of the machine, because it was replace with a new one some time ago....

I do have some questions. There is a forward/reverse drum switch next to the start/stop switch. I'm assuming this is not original, but could someone confirm? If it is not, can someone tell me how the forward/reverse functioned? Basically looking to see how the original electrical was done?

Hoping this link to my Google Photos album will work. Click link below to access pictures.

Monarch 18” CBB Lathe - Google Photos
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
Not sure about the drum switch question.

But what a nice lathe. Taper attachment, travel dial, and all that tooling. You did quite well.

Some of your pics:

479.jpg 480.jpg 481.jpg 482.jpg 483.jpg
 

grounding

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 1, 2021

jeff76

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Ohio USA
I cant really answer your question as to what was original on these lathes, but I also have an 18"CBB and mine also has a forward/reverse drum switch as well.

Jeff
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
I checked what manuals I could find for your lathe, and those like it. Couldn't find anything on the electrical switches, or user operation.

My lathe is different from yours, in that the headstock looks different. But its base design is actually quite similar to yours in how they did things with the gear box itself, the clutch etc. Though my manual does not give details in operation, both my machine and the manual show forward and reverse:

491.jpg
 

grounding

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 1, 2021
I checked what manuals I could find for your lathe, and those like it. Couldn't find anything on the electrical switches, or user operation.

My lathe is different from yours, in that the headstock looks different. But its base design is actually quite similar to yours in how they did things with the gear box itself, the clutch etc. Though my manual does not give details in operation, both my machine and the manual show forward and reverse:

View attachment 341096

Thank you sir


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grounding

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 1, 2021
I checked what manuals I could find for your lathe, and those like it. Couldn't find anything on the electrical switches, or user operation.

My lathe is different from yours, in that the headstock looks different. But its base design is actually quite similar to yours in how they did things with the gear box itself, the clutch etc. Though my manual does not give details in operation, both my machine and the manual show forward and reverse:

View attachment 341096

Hey, how many gallons of oil for the headstock?


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texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
Hey, how many gallons of oil for the headstock?
I don't see an exact number for yours.

In this 1947 Model C manual, it recommends SAE 30, which would be DTE Heavy. I would think DTE Heavy or DTE Heavy/medium which is SAE 20. You're in the north, might be subject to colder environment, so I might go with DTE heavy/medium there.

Page 5:
Monarch Machine Tool Co. - Publication Reprints - Installation, Operation & Parts Manual-1947 Model 16C | VintageMachinery.org

The pdf:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/17622.pdf

Mine is a 16" with 18.5" swing, but different shape to headstock housing, it calls for 5 gallons:

496.jpg
 

dana gear

Hot Rolled
Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Location
Northern califorina, usa
Great machine, I have two that pretty much look like yours.
Both have forward/reversing drum switches. Although nicely done, neither of them look factory installed.
On how the drum switch works, there's tons of wiring diagrams online. Basically all 3-phase motors can run forward or reverse depending on how there wired.
The rotary switch simply changes the phase cycle, example if the 3 hot legs of 3 phase are running your motor clockwise and leg 1 is attached to terminal A, leg 2 to terminal B and leg 3 to terminal C. Then changing leg 1 to terminal B and leg 2 to terminal A and leaving 3 unchanged will reverse the rotation of your motor.
That said be very careful and never work anything that is electrically hot(power on)
On the lube mine hold about 3 gallons more or less of oil.
 

grounding

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 1, 2021
I don't see an exact number for yours.

In this 1947 Model C manual, it recommends SAE 30, which would be DTE Heavy. I would think DTE Heavy or DTE Heavy/medium which is SAE 20. You're in the north, might be subject to colder environment, so I might go with DTE heavy/medium there.

Page 5:
Monarch Machine Tool Co. - Publication Reprints - Installation, Operation & Parts Manual-1947 Model 16C | VintageMachinery.org

The pdf:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/17622.pdf

Mine is a 16" with 18.5" swing, but different shape to headstock housing, it calls for 5 gallons:

View attachment 341166

Thanks


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grounding

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 1, 2021
Great machine, I have two that pretty much look like yours.
Both have forward/reversing drum switches. Although nicely done, neither of them look factory installed.
On how the drum switch works, there's tons of wiring diagrams online. Basically all 3-phase motors can run forward or reverse depending on how there wired.
The rotary switch simply changes the phase cycle, example if the 3 hot legs of 3 phase are running your motor clockwise and leg 1 is attached to terminal A, leg 2 to terminal B and leg 3 to terminal C. Then changing leg 1 to terminal B and leg 2 to terminal A and leaving 3 unchanged will reverse the rotation of your motor.
That said be very careful and never work anything that is electrically hot(power on)
On the lube mine hold about 3 gallons more or less of oil.

Thank you


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grounding

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 1, 2021
So I removed the compound and crossslide, to clean and such and found these. Some very substantial grooves in both the crossslide and saddle. Couple questions. What the hell could have caused this and do in need to be concerned? Can I put it back together after a proper cleaning?

6954731c660fe1415440c845c7b6f822.jpg

318c1c14515ebdb8c32dcd1585025240.jpg

04718231808ee9f473137a88804ec8d9.jpg



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texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
Short answers. Yes you can clean, lube, get the lube system cleared out and working, tighten and adjust things for best performance and then use it.

You could also scrape it in for better contact, better bearing surface, and greater accuracy.

In fact I'll be addressing my surfaces shortly somewhere after here:
Monarch Series 61, Rebuilding for Improvement

I'm not entirely sure the 18 CBB uses the exact same lube system, but presuming it does, then this other thread by Mike may help. It covers various lube issues, but in detail it also covers the apron, saddle cross slide problems:
Modifying Monarchs problematic oiling system.

I've made the decision to gut bijur fitting in that lube system, and divorce the saddle and cross slide from using oil feed from apron. Some details starting here I believe:
Getting a Monarch Series 61 Back in Service

And will use a one shot to lube saddle and cross slide, with some details here:
Modifying Monarchs problematic oiling system.
 

grounding

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 1, 2021
Short answers. Yes you can clean, lube, get the lube system cleared out and working, tighten and adjust things for best performance and then use it.

You could also scrape it in for better contact, better bearing surface, and greater accuracy.

In fact I'll be addressing my surfaces shortly somewhere after here:
Monarch Series 61, Rebuilding for Improvement

I'm not entirely sure the 18 CBB uses the exact same lube system, but presuming it does, then this other thread by Mike may help. It covers various lube issues, but in detail it also covers the apron, saddle cross slide problems:
Modifying Monarchs problematic oiling system.

I've made the decision to gut bijur fitting in that lube system, and divorce the saddle and cross slide from using oil feed from apron. Some details starting here I believe:
Getting a Monarch Series 61 Back in Service

And will use a one shot to lube saddle and cross slide, with some details here:
Modifying Monarchs problematic oiling system.

Damn, a ton there. Thanks man


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texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
Contacting in the center of cross slide is not good either. It should be close, maybe .003", but not actually riding on the center. I circled it here:

503.jpg

At a minumum I'd scrape or mill that out a couple thou.

More reading if you like, pretty much all of page 6 of this thread covers it:

Another New Toy
 

grounding

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 1, 2021
Contacting in the center of cross slide is not good either. It should be close, maybe .003", but not actually riding on the center. I circled it here:

View attachment 341356

At a minumum I'd scrape or mill that out a couple thou.

More reading if you like, pretty much all of page 6 of this thread covers it:

Another New Toy

I think most of this is because the flat plate (the chip guard) was rusted and wedged under the crossslide.


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texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
I think most of this is because the flat plate (the chip guard) was rusted and wedged under the crossslide.


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You might lay it back up on saddle to check with feeler blades. Or if you have any bluing, mark the cross slide, put it on saddle and see where the color transfers to.

If you don't have any inks or bluing on hand, get a lip stick from the wife she don't care about. Mark a real thin film on one surface, and see if it transfers to the other. If you mark the whole surface, you can check the real contact areas as well to see how well, and where you are contacting.
 








 
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