New to me 20" Lodge & Shipley lathe. Information needed.

[pompeiisneaks]

I have a Lodge & Shipley 20" lathe from the 1925 era. (I've had the machine dated via the serial number stamped on the ways). Monarch doesn't support that old of a lathe. Wondering if anyone has any details on the parts/components like drawings or service manuals? I think I have all the parts but not 100% sure. I'm starting the cleanup as it was in a garage for who knows how many years collecting dust and a bit of rust. I might have to scrape the ways and slide back in, not sure at this point, but that's all new to me, but am willing to take on the challenge to restore this old beast. It also has an old GE motor on it 3 phase at 440 VAC, 7 1/2 HP but has details on it how to rewire it for 'lower voltage' I'm guessing/hoping that's about 220 or so. I might be able to get the old model number off the plate of the motor but it's a bit dirty still so I'll have to clean it up. Any information people have would be great. I do know of vintagemachinery.org and I found a doc that seems to be perfect for this timeline and it has a few images etc, but no closeups or detail on the parts themselves. Just overview shots.

Posting a few pics of the old beast.

Thanks!

~Phil

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

You will get a lot more advice posting in the Antique Machinery & History section.

 

[johnoder]

I have a Lodge & Shipley 20" lathe from the 1925 era. (I've had the machine dated via the serial number stamped on the ways). Monarch doesn't support that old of a lathe. Wondering if anyone has any details on the parts/components like drawings or service manuals? I think I have all the parts but not 100% sure. I'm starting the cleanup as it was in a garage for who knows how many years collecting dust and a bit of rust. I might have to scrape the ways and slide back in, not sure at this point, but that's all new to me, but am willing to take on the challenge to restore this old beast. It also has an old GE motor on it 3 phase at 440 VAC, 7 1/2 HP but has details on it how to rewire it for 'lower voltage' I'm guessing/hoping that's about 220 or so. I might be able to get the old model number off the plate of the motor but it's a bit dirty still so I'll have to clean it up. Any information people have would be great. I do know of vintagemachinery.org and I found a doc that seems to be perfect for this timeline and it has a few images etc, but no closeups or detail on the parts themselves. Just overview shots.

Posting a few pics of the old beast.

Thanks!

~Phil

Lots of them - just referred to as Selective Head. Here is a scan from 1916. Thanks to member Mike C. for the scans

Manual just about useless

Some L&S threads of mine are here

Antique Machinery forum greatest hits

To avoid them being lost in shuffle, this thread contains links to some of the more popular and interesting threads in the Antique Machinery and History forum. While this thread remains locked, the moderator can edit it. As interesting as so many threads are here we cannot include most of...

www.practicalmachinist.com

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2104/6068.pdf

 

[moonlight machine]

I don't see a tailstock, is it missing?

 

[pompeiisneaks]

Thanks for the info all! Sorry I figured it should go under the monarch area since monarch owns the trademarks now. I have the tailstock, it was not on the lathe when I got it, and it's a heavy beast so I figured I'd leave it off and clean it too, and when the lathe's ready to start making chips I'll get that on too. It has the cross slide, steady rest, etc. Just need to do a ton of cleaning. There seems to have been some kind of taper attachment that I 'might' have parts to as well, but it's hard for me to say without a good machine diagram and exploded parts list etc. There may be a decent amount of missing bolts etc, but I'm guessing that's not going to be hard to replace. In playing around I can see that the speed selectors work to gear it up/down etc. The threading slider is working but slow to move so I'll need to clean that all out as well. The ways are pretty crusty but as I've cleaned them a bit they still seem pretty decent all in all. Does anyone know for sure if that type of GE motor's 'low' speed is 200, 220 or? I think back that far 200 or 220 is more common than 240. I'm guessing I'll need to find a way to drop it a bit to be sure? I think I've seen some VFD's that do lower output, but I'm thinking of getting a rotary phase converter instead, but not sure if you can lower the voltage with those? Maybe by intentionally under-filtering a bit with the run capacitors?

Again, thanks for the help and info!

If people are interested I can do more like videos or photos of the beast as I go? I've done tons of youtube videos for my other hobby of hand building tube guitar amplifiers

~Phil

 

[Cal Haines]

I have a Lodge & Shipley 20" lathe from the 1925 era. ...

... It also has an old GE motor on it 3 phase at 440 VAC, 7 1/2 HP but has details on it how to rewire it for 'lower voltage' I'm guessing/hoping that's about 220 or so. ...

... Does anyone know for sure if that type of GE motor's 'low' speed is 200, 220 or? I think back that far 200 or 220 is more common than 240. I'm guessing I'll need to find a way to drop it a bit to be sure? I think I've seen some VFD's that do lower output, but I'm thinking of getting a rotary phase converter instead, but not sure if you can lower the voltage with those? Maybe by intentionally under-filtering a bit with the run capacitors?
...

You have a delta-connected motor, which is less common in the US than a Wye-connected motor.

Assuming that the motor is wired for "higher voltage" and known to have been running from 440 3-phase, you should be OK rewiring it for "lower voltage" and running it from 240 VAC using either a VFD or a rotary phase converter. Here's a web page that explains delta-connected motors:

Understanding Delta-Wound Three-Phase Motors for Industrial Applications - Technical Articles

There are two types of winding designs inside three-phase industrial motors: Wye and Delta. Although the motors and connections look similar on the outside, this article discusses the internal construction for Delta wound motors.

control.com

 

[johnoder]

In case you have to have the chuck off bye and bye
My 24 is bigger but the same idea

* Worked Good!

The spindle brake tool I made here: * Horizontal Mill As Lathe Worked like a charm, but this 20" four jaw must not of been on very tight on its 8.000" - 4 thread. All I had to do was bump my 95 lb 9 1/2 foot lever up and down a few times to break the chuck loose. Here are photos...

www.practicalmachinist.com

 

[pompeiisneaks]

You have a delta-connected motor, which is less common in the US than a Wye-connected motor.

Assuming that the motor is wired for "higher voltage" and known to have been running from 440 3-phase, you should be OK rewiring it for "lower voltage" and running it from 240 VAC using either a VFD or a rotary phase converter. Here's a web page that explains delta-connected motors:

Understanding Delta-Wound Three-Phase Motors for Industrial Applications - Technical Articles

There are two types of winding designs inside three-phase industrial motors: Wye and Delta. Although the motors and connections look similar on the outside, this article discusses the internal construction for Delta wound motors.

control.com

Thanks,

I noted on the current wiring that it's wired for the lower voltage so I think I'm good there (i.e. I could see wires 2,8,4 were wire nutted together) I'll triple check that before I put power to it. Glad to know it should be fine at 240 3-phase.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

In case you have to have the chuck off bye and bye
My 24 is bigger but the same idea

* Worked Good!

The spindle brake tool I made here: * Horizontal Mill As Lathe Worked like a charm, but this 20" four jaw must not of been on very tight on its 8.000" - 4 thread. All I had to do was bump my 95 lb 9 1/2 foot lever up and down a few times to break the chuck loose. Here are photos...

www.practicalmachinist.com

That's really cool, I'm guessing that means otherwise you have to wait quite a while for the head to stop spinning before you can do other work...

the other thing I'm going to have to figure out is related to on/off state. The run/stop lever seems to have had something disconnected in the past. I have the lever there, but it attaches to a mechanism that seems like it expects a rod to go off towards the area near the bottom of the lathe spindle connection for the belt from the motor, and there's no rod there. I.e. it seems the lathe is 'on' right now, as I can turn the chuck or the large wheel at the back and they're linked, but not sure if it's in 'forwards' or 'reverse' Either way, I can't disable it as is. I'll have to possibly jury-rig something short term to enable me to adjust that.

~Phil

 

[johnoder]

That's really cool, I'm guessing that means otherwise you have to wait quite a while for the head to stop spinning before you can do other work...

the other thing I'm going to have to figure out is related to on/off state. The run/stop lever seems to have had something disconnected in the past. I have the lever there, but it attaches to a mechanism that seems like it expects a rod to go off towards the area near the bottom of the lathe spindle connection for the belt from the motor, and there's no rod there. I.e. it seems the lathe is 'on' right now, as I can turn the chuck or the large wheel at the back and they're linked, but not sure if it's in 'forwards' or 'reverse' Either way, I can't disable it as is. I'll have to possibly jury-rig something short term to enable me to adjust that.

~Phil

You are referring to clutch linkage. Rod runs along in front so you can have (sometimes) a lever at HS end and another at right end of carriage. Left end of rod works a rod going back to the shaft and lever hanging out of the clutch housing.

Some of these had a reversing gear up in the head stock so additional things could happen with the clutch lever - like reverse the spindle, My 24 had that though disabled in the dim past

 

[johnoder]

If you ever decide to snatch off cover this is what you will see - and it gives you an opportunity to replace the felts over the oil ports in the bearing caps on the spindle. Looks pretty sturdy in there. No oil pump yet on this 1923 version, just splash/sling-it-off .

 

[pompeiisneaks]

You are referring to clutch linkage. Rod runs along in front so you can have (sometimes) a lever at HS end and another at right end of carriage. Left end of rod works a rod going back to the shaft and lever hanging out of the clutch housing.

Some of these had a reversing gear up in the head stock so additional things could happen with the clutch lever - like reverse the spindle, My 24 had that though disabled in the dim past

Oh my, that's too bad, I'm missing some of those parts... I'll get a photo here soon showing what I 'do' have but I don't know how I'll manage to fix it.

Thanks for the detailed photo. I realized you were linking different pages of that same document, so I went and downloaded all 59 pages and converted them from jpg images to a single PDF if you want me to attach it here?

~Phil

 

[pompeiisneaks]

If you ever decide to snatch off cover this is what you will see - and it gives you an opportunity to replace the felts over the oil ports in the bearing caps on the spindle. Looks pretty sturdy in there. No oil pump yet on this 1923 version, just splash/sling-it-off .

Oh nice view. I do want to do that at some point but I'll need a cherry picker or gantry before I can lift of that behemoth of a motor on top to get a look at the guts. I do need to before I start her up, because there's a lot of old crusty oil build up everywhere I've looked. I'm going to have to come up with a strong degreaser that can break down uber long term aged goo that was once oil but now more like gum.

~Phil

 

[johnoder]

Oh my, that's too bad, I'm missing some of those parts... I'll get a photo here soon showing what I 'do' have but I don't know how I'll manage to fix it.

Thanks for the detailed photo. I realized you were linking different pages of that same document, so I went and downloaded all 59 pages and converted them from jpg images to a single PDF if you want me to attach it here?

~Phil

Good question on the pdf - I do know that some time back PM would only allow very "small" pdfs. Now if you can HOST that pdf and link to that - that would be great.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

Good question on the pdf - I do know that some time back PM would only allow very "small" pdfs. Now if you can HOST that pdf and link to that - that would be great.

Like this? LSCatalog1916.pdf

Done

~Phil

 

[pompeiisneaks]

Here are a few pics of the back side. I also have the other stuff that came with it. If people can point out 'what that is' I think I know a lot of it but still not against smarter people than me helping

 

[Cal Haines]

... I realized you were linking different pages of that same document, so I went and downloaded all 59 pages and converted them from jpg images to a single PDF if you want me to attach it here?

~Phil

You might want to upload it to VintageMachinery. There's even an L&S page (link). The problem with hosting it yourself is that if/when your domain goes away the information gets lost.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

You might want to upload it to VintageMachinery. There's even an L&S page (link). The problem with hosting it yourself is that if/when your domain goes away the information gets lost.

True but my domain's have been up for about 25 years now. I'm an IT nerd I def will put it on vintage machinery too


~Phil

 

[johnoder]

There is tons more - if less comprehensive and more personal - just on the old L&S

Follow Rest Rig

On the 24" 1917 L&S - made possible by carriage saddle tee slots Worked great Zero chatter / vibration Had the 4" channel with holes in the ends and the 353 cylinder liners and added the rest Blocks just left over Phenolic - milled a scallop in the important one. You may be able to see that...

www.practicalmachinist.com

* Set Up To Bore Apron

This is a continuation of fixing up the 1917 24" L&S Selective Head. I am boring this for a bushing as a repair, and is for the double bevel gear repaired here: Rework L&S Apron Double Bevel Gear This big piece does just fit in the 2CH, but I took enough time with the set up so that I have no...

www.practicalmachinist.com

Non Messy Oil Change on the 24" L&S

Worked good.

www.practicalmachinist.com

Rig, Lift & Place

Took off headstock on the 1920 24" Lodge & Shipley today. This is in preparation for eventually planing the ways in house with a sled rig. Took my time - bought/made enough stuff to build a good rig, put the diagonal struts on gantry crane, and lubed up chain fall. Went off as planned. Here...

www.practicalmachinist.com

* "Shoeing" Shifting Forks

This relates to my 24" Lodge & Shipley Selective Heads from the teens/twenties, but many lathes use a form of this apron gearing. L&S, who made very tough lathes, did not do great here, at least over the very long haul. The shifting fork is the only thing there that takes the thrust of the...

www.practicalmachinist.com

Cheap Tools For Working Alone

Especially if the machine tool is good sized. :) Had to take apron off the 1917 24" Lodge & Shipley, so made a "helper" tool for the floor jack. Photos here: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/24%20X%20168%20LS/Older%20One/Apron%20Removal/ John

www.practicalmachinist.com

* More Old L&S Clutch Work

Thought you might enjoy my "southern engineering" on this rig to pull off drive pulley on my 24" Selective Head L&S. All sorts of trying to pry against classically rounded castings had no effect. So I came up with this. The plywood spreaders not only position things, but keep the business...

www.practicalmachinist.com

 

[pompeiisneaks]

Great! More for me to digest.

Here's the link to vintage machinery now too: Lodge & Shipley Lathe Catalog 1916
I also posted my machine up as a photo index: This lathe's photo index
And as a serial number in the registry: Serial Number 28068
~Phil