What's new
What's new

New to me Harig 618 Auto Step, new way oil pump not stong enough to move oil

bmklawt

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Location
Holland, MI, USA
I bought two new oil pumps for the lubrication on my new to me Harig grinder, a little giant 21L14, that I've seen recommend on these forums and a March pump 1U-MD, I believe a March pump is what originally came with the Machine, neither pump will pump the oil high enough to get the oil to the sight glass, they both pump oil up a single 1/4" O.D. tube about 22", the bottom of the sump to the sight glass is 32", I am using the recommend Harig way oil.
Any ideas whats going on or what I'm doing wrong?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3279.jpg
    IMG_3279.jpg
    92.1 KB · Views: 51
  • IMG_3280.jpg
    IMG_3280.jpg
    97.5 KB · Views: 43
  • IMG_3281.jpg
    IMG_3281.jpg
    93.5 KB · Views: 51

CarbideBob

Diamond
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Location
Flushing/Flint, Michigan
There should be two lines. The valve restricted to the front ways and a open line to the top.
Regardless of this I think your oil weight maybe heavy? Also perhaps some blockage to the top? Blow that clear.
Take the tube off at the high end and see it it pumps up to the top of the column height when free.
Bob
 

gwilley

Plastic
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
The return passages on mine were fouled with a waxy buildup from someone using the wrong way oil. The flex line goes up to a distribution tube on top of the column where it goes to the column way surfaces. Like Bob said, make sure that isn't obstructed and that you aren't hooked up to the needle valve which feeds the cross slide and table. Also verify the voltage of your pump matches the voltage of the transformer.
 

CarbideBob

Diamond
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Location
Flushing/Flint, Michigan
....... Also verify the voltage of your pump matches the voltage of the transformer.
The standard voltage of mine were 220. A 440 machine got a transformer added from the factory.
I have put 110 pumps in some and did the transformer or wall plug.
If the correct power every pump has a "head". Disconnect it up top and hold the tube to height. Does it still stall?
Disclaimer is that I have never owned an Auto Step but have had a lot of Harig 6x12s and 6x18s.
Bob
 

jbacc

Cast Iron
Joined
May 5, 2009
Location
New Jersey
I have the original pump in my Harig and use Vactra #2 and it pumps fine. If the grinder has been sitting a while, it take a few minutes for the oil to appear in the sight glass.

As mentioned, there is a restrictor valve and also mentioned, the possibility if the return line being clogged? Have you confirmed that the lines are clear?
 

bmklawt

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Location
Holland, MI, USA
I'm actually just bench testing the pumps, I tried this in the machine but no oil was getting to the sight glass, what you see in the picture is me just seeing if it will pump enough to get the oil to rise high enough to get to the sight glass, I just have a piece of tubing going from the pump to open air, the other port with the needle valve is closed off. I thought maybe I didn't get the correct oil and have no way of checking so I took a viscosity cup for paint I had and filled it up with Harig way and timed that it took 37 seconds to empty, with 30W motor oil it took 1 minute 52 seconds and with ATF fluid 33 seconds, I believe Harig way oil and ATF are about the same viscosity so I believe the oil is correct.
The March pump says its 3 GPM, 4.5 foot head, .005 HP, little giant pump say 2 GPM, 7 foot head, 1/200 HP, Both work great with water.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3294.jpg
    IMG_3294.jpg
    98.8 KB · Views: 28

gwilley

Plastic
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
How long have you let it pump? Like jbacc says, it may take several minutes to make it to the top of the column. The oil looks like the correct Harig oil. Where did you source it?
 

gwilley

Plastic
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
If I understand the parts breakdown correctly there's a filter screen on the assembly that installs onto the pump discharge. If that filter screen is plugged with swarf then it would essentially strangle the output of the pump. This would explain why both of your pumps are having issues. I've had mine apart and I had thought they were referring to the screen on the inlet. This is worth checking into.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot 2022-02-16 at 10-31-39 25687 pdf.jpg
    Screenshot 2022-02-16 at 10-31-39 25687 pdf.jpg
    18.8 KB · Views: 26

KevinV_MEI

Plastic
Joined
May 11, 2012
Location
Almont, Mi, USA
Please contact Harig, Specializing in High Precision Grinding Services - TRU TECH Systems in Clinton Twp or Harig in Ill. JDS TECHNICAL SUPPORT JIM SEYLLER P 847 683 0476 C 847 857 8643. Jim is very knowledgeable and is willing to help for free to a certain point if you buy the parts from him. Also use the correct oil, PART # HA16211245, Way Oil – Gallon, Trutech has it. It has friction modifiers in it and will keep you from burning up the pump, which usually happens when a too heavy oil is used.
 

CarbideBob

Diamond
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Location
Flushing/Flint, Michigan
Confusing things as both these pumps 110 so not factory?
I do put in 110 volt Little Giants in as replacements with no problem and have been doing it since the late 70s.
Water head and oil head is a tad different.
While fine for testing these pumps do not oil at the bottom only. They need to sit in a oil sump or they will die.
Is that screen clear? But even if coated over time one should get up top. Any leaks along the way or at any fittings?
This is just very strange.
Bob
 

gwilley

Plastic
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
If I am reading the wiring diagram correctly, the only things on these machines that are on primary voltage is the spindle and hydraulic pump. Everything else runs off the transformer.
 








 
Top