New (To me) Machine day! Warner and Swasey SC-32

[Nerv]

As mentioned in the thread title, our Warner and Swasey SC-32 arrived! I was initially quite concerned; How are we going to get this machine off the trailer with a crane (55,000lbs)? The riggers in Texas loaded this with a large forklift. We managed to figure out that challenge and unloaded the behemoth with a Terex 80 ton crane. I know there are members with larger machines but this is a pretty serious unit.



I'll post more about it in my other thread, then I only have to keep one thread up to date.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...they-will-be-a-maho-owner.321712/post-4043161

Nerv

 

[Cole2534]

Now THAT is a workhorse!

What's your intended use? From TX, presumably it did oilfield stuff in its former place of employment.

 

[DDoug]

Bigger yes, but I contend those lathes (along with J&L) were some of the heaviest in that size range.

 

[Nerv]

Now THAT is a workhorse!

What's your intended use? From TX, presumably it did oilfield stuff in its former place of employment.

We are located in the Calgary, Alberta area in Canada. Oilfield work is very common here too, 20 years ago I worked for BJ Services Company Canada as a well stimulation equipment designer and our head office was in Houston, Texas. The industry here is very similar to there.

I will be doing similar large diameter work with this machine, though I'm seriously contemplating throwing an newer control on it and putting a tilting 5 axis spindle off a DMG DMU60T monoblock on it (It already has the axis and feedback I need for the movement that would need to be added). I know of one that is almost a parts only machine at this point that would turn this machine into something quite incredible. If you are adding live tooling why not add a couple axis too right? As it is, this machine is in really nice shape with a late 90's Fanuc 18TT control that was retrofitted by the Texas companies (Dril-Quip) in house Fanuc retrofitting department. They did a really nice job of it too. It is twin turret, the lower slide is actually a huge 7 in boring bar that can index and hold 4 tools on the end of it. It sticks out 3 feet. It's something that has to be seen in person.

Nerv

 

[Cole2534]

It sticks out 3 feet. It's something that has to be seen in person.

Nerv

Sounds like you'll be taking more pics!

 

[david n]

She's got some gravity to 'er................

 

[DDoug]

Did you see the write up JrIowa did on the one I found for him, and how he had it rebuilt ?

 

[Cole2534]

Did you see the write up JrIowa did on the one I found for him, and how he had it rebuilt ?

I havent, and I would like to

 

[Nerv]

Did you see the write up JrIowa did on the one I found for him, and how he had it rebuilt ?

I did see a few threads where JRIowa wrote about his W&S lathe(s) but I don't recall anything about a rebuild, or anything documenting that process. I know there was one that had been customized by a third party for him? I also recall him saying there were very few SC-32's out there with the 110+ inch Z travel. This machine is one of those few.

Nerv

 

[DDoug]

I did see a few threads where JRIowa wrote about his W&S lathe(s) but I don't recall anything about a rebuild, or anything documenting that process. I know there was one that had been customized by a third party for him? I also recall him saying there were very few SC-32's out there with the 110+ inch Z travel. This machine is one of those few.

Nerv

I can't seem to find it anymore.
The contact I had that led JrIowa to the sc-32 long bed, indicated that there were IIRC qty (6) made in total.

 

[Nerv]

I can't seem to find it anymore.
The contact I had that led JrIowa to the sc-32 long bed, indicated that there were IIRC qty (6) made in total.

That is very interesting! What I wonder is how many were made with this lower integrated indexing boring bar with rotating tapered rings when the lower slide is used as a tailstock for tube/pipe:



Nerv

 

[david n]

That is very interesting! What I wonder is how many were made with this lower integrated indexing boring bar with rotating tapered rings when the lower slide is used as a tailstock for tube/pipe:

View attachment 392293

Nerv

That's pretty cool.........I never got a chance to run big iron. Looks like I'm missing out.........................

 

[Ox]

Boy, those (plural?) ball screw(s) are kind'a right out there in the thick of things eh?

I wonder if that spiral jobbie covers has holes in it on the bottom to let out whatever gits in?


I have a customer in Detroit that has a similar machine, but prolly not quite that big.

The fact that you have a newer 18 on it is a big plus!


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Cole2534]

So what's the electrical load on that thing? 100a 480v?

 

[Nerv]

Boy, those (plural?) ball screw(s) are kind'a right out there in the thick of things eh?

I wonder if that spiral jobbie covers has holes in it on the bottom to let out whatever gits in?


I have a customer in Detroit that has a similar machine, but prolly not quite that big.

The fact that you have a newer 18 on it is a big plus!


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Yes, I agree about those spiral covers. I think they have enough of a gap on the bottom they let most things that get in back out again, all but the largest cuttings but then again those might not make it in there in the first place. I'm going to pull them off to inspect. My Mori lathe has thick armor-like plate over the screws as does my Daewoo so it did surprise me to see these so exposed.

Just by looking at how this is designed, I would assume this machine is intended to turn mainly hollow tube/pipe over 8in ID, with this chuck max 12.2" OD. I'm looking for a larger chuck that has the same ID as the spindle bore, which is around 19" (to be confirmed) I just need to measure up the spindle taper to see what this machine has. If anyone out there has specifications or any sort of brochure for the SC series lathes I would love to get a copy of it.

I also love that is has the 18 control because they put all matching servos and drives at that time so everything is AC, and thus quite reliable. The only motor that is still DC is the 75HP spindle motor. I have a 40HP Fanuc AC spindle motor I may retrofit in it's place and gear it appropriately so I can keep the current draw lower, we'll see. The 18 should be fairly open hopefully with the ladder accessible via FLADDER software so I can make changes if needed or desired down the road, especially for automation. Worst case I can even upload it if I decide to put a newer Fanuc on it with more available axis, reducing the work involved considerably. At this point I'm likely just going to put her to work doing what she does best and focus on getting my Mori finished.

What I found surprising is the OD tools are all upsidedown mounted in the turret. The cutting forces are away from the saddle. I could pull the turret plate and make a new one that can take either direction like most other machines do now, with also some ability to take small ID tooling, we'll see if I get to the point the itch justifies the scratch. The boring bar end comes off so I could possibly make any sort of tool holding combination there, I'm going to take it partially apart to see how difficult it is to swap out the bar for something else on the lower saddle in the event the work justifies it. If I had a much bigger shop with a machine for everything (Like the shop this came from) I would be more than happy to leave this alone for the work that it is best setup for, but if it isn't too much work making it a little more configurable may make it easier to keep it busy. It also has a big hydraulic steady rest on it...



Nerv

 

[Ox]

19" spindle bore?
WOW!

Not sure I've ever heard of that before.

My Large and Shapely has a 7" (?) bore, and I know that 12 was an option.
(Likely slower gears?)

I have a pr of the L&S's and they are both updated with red caps and such, but like yours, they both have the original DC motors, but updated drives.

Mine has a scroll chuck.
Not sure I would want your type chuck for low volume / high mix parts?
Prolly has better run-out tho.

What's on the other end of the spindle?
Apparently a closer?
With a pull-back chuck like that - you can't really have a rear chuck?

I'll git a pic of what I did for stabalizing long bars / tubes.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Nerv]

So what's the electrical load on that thing? 100a 480v?

Yes, at least the main switch is rated for 100A and the mains voltage is 480V. Tags as normally can be expected are not really in place on this machine. I do have the retrofit manual with the schematics, parameters and ladder. I'll probably relocate the transformer so the lines are run at 480V unlike the 240V 3 phase I have elsewhere, just to keep the cost of copper down.

 

[Nerv]

What's on the other end of the spindle?
Apparently a closer?
With a pull-back chuck like that - you can't really have a rear chuck?

This machine has a Schunk Rota TB800-310 Chuck, it is fully self contained and is pneumatic, the rear of the spindle used to have another chuck at one time but right now there is nothing mounted. There were 4 similar chucks available in the auction and I was going to bid on them but they went for almost as much as I bought this entire machine for. None of the chucks I saw have a bore large enough to take advantage of the big bore this has anyway, so I'll be searching for something better. A scroll might be okay, I'm not going to be needing to take heavy cuts from tubing anyway, I just want chucks on both ends as this not only takes a bit of the gripping needs and spreads them over two sets of jaws but the lower required force, at least on the end sticking out of the cutting side of the chuck will allow for less pipe distortion.

I touched on it earlier, I'm likely going to put a different spindle motor on it but with the mains at 480 I need to check a few things to make sure I choose something that will work most optimally with the existing wiring. Worse case I throw in another autotransformer just for the spindle drive, this is similar to what DMG did with my MC800H right from factory, only it was the axis drives that needed the lower voltage and needed to be stepped down. Too bad my German equipment is 380-400V and this is 480 while my Oriental equipment is 200-220V. I suppose the wise move would be to initially step it up to 600V from my Phase Perfect and then runs isolation transformers at each machine, as 600V step down transformers are readily available here and economical, plus the copper running from the PP which is quite far away can be more moderate in size and still be more than adequate. We'll see, it's only time, money, and just general lower efficiency across each transformer.

Nerv

 

[Ox]

Yeah, you will definately be wanting a chuck of some sort back there.
Not really for grip, but to keep it from flopping all over.

Air eh? WOW, somebody spent some bucks there!
I doo question the grip tho?
Is it air open/spring close? Or maybe air / air?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Nerv]

Hi Ox,

Pneumatic chucks, especially larger diameter ones have some pretty strong gripping force because the pistons have such large area in them and the ramp the jaws are sliding on is quite steep. There are some designs that have a two stage ramp that allows the jaws to open more near the end of the piston stroke but these have two limitations: You must be very careful they actually grip on the steep ramp stage and they can't be used as ID workholding chucks, at least if I remember correctly.

In my application I think the chuck will be able to grip more than I want and I will be using less air pressure than the max rating. As for how it "holds", this is quite clever and my Pneumatic chuck on the Mori from the early 80's works the same way:

It uses air both for opening and closing, only when the chuck is not turning can air be applied. The seals that transfer the air are designed to pull back away from the chuck when not in use so they do not wear. There are special valves that only let air out when air is applied to the other line so they do not leak during normal use. In the manual for my one chuck it recommends not leaving the chuck "gripping" for over a day and to be sure to cycle the jaws at least once a day to keep the air pressure up. There are moving elements within the chuck that move when pressures fall outside of the safe range and provide feedback for the control to stop the machine well before the chuck lets go of the part.

My Mori had air still up to pressure after the chuck had been sitting for... 5 years? (Most of those prior to my ownership). In some ways I think they are safer than hydraulic actuators, they don't take up spindle bore but they are more expensive.

Nerv