New To Me Miyano BND-42S5 on the way- bar feeder question…

[Pete Deal]

I just bought a Miyano BND-42S5 lathe. It comes with an LNS hydrobar bar feeder. I think I’ll initially just get the lathe running stand alone since I have a lot to learn with the machine. I do plan to set it up with a bar feeder of some sort before long though. Bar sizes would be 1/4-1-5/8” diameter, part length 5” and less.

I’m not very familiar with bar feeders so have been reading all I can find on them. The hydrobar looks to me like a rube goldberg design sort of but from some of the posts I’ve seen on here they seem to be a pretty functional and uniquely simple feeder for 12’ bars. While I do have the space for the 12’ + long feeder it’s a lot of shop space to give up.

I’ve also been looking at some of the shorter lns servo bar feeders. Looks like for most of these spindle length is the longest bar length they’ll handle. This Miyano I think has about a 24” long spindle so pretty short. Seems like being restricted to such short length bars is not as desirable. I was reading the lns manuals for the feeder that will feed 6’ or so bars (longer than the spindle) and it appears that there are a bunch of change parts for each bar size.

Anyone with experience on the trade-offs of various bar feeders for an application like this care to share their insights?

 

[Pete Deal]

Just after posting this thread I found another related excellent thread-

Understanding bar feeders. What the heck do I need.

Sorry for the repeat post but I thought before I blindly put a bar feed on our Mori, I should understand more about them to make a smart decision. We really do not have room for a 12ft barfeed right now but will next year in the new shop. We can fit a max "contraption" length of 6ft. I have...

www.practicalmachinist.com

Actually, the thread linked above, which I’m still reading, pretty much answers my questions. I’d still like to hear any new insights though if anyone has any to offer.

 

[DavidScott]

Cutting 12' bars to fit the feeder sucks.

 

[wmpy]

Hi Pete,

Congrats on the new machine. I have a similar, older Miyano. Is the LNS Hydrobar you have the "gatling gun" style where you can change to the different size tubes? I like those for a single bar feeder. Changeovers are quick and easy, nothing ever really goes wrong with them, and they do a good job handling bar vibrations.

If you really are feeding parts close to 5" long, I think you'll want to stick with 12' bars. You'll end up with way more material as remnants if you start cutting bars into shorter pieces.

I would not recommend a short bar loader for that machine. As you said, the spindle is quite short. The best application for those loaders are machines where you can fit a 4' bar in the spindle. Then, you just need to cut your 12' bars into three pieces. If you really wanted to, you could put a spindle extension on your machine to be able to fit a longer bar. Here is an example of one:

Barfeeder Application - JF Berns | Spindle Liners, Bar Supports, Machine Tool and Lathe Accessories

Application: Top Load Sport used between a barfeeder and a Lathe. The Problem: We have a barfeeder that will feed bars longer than the spindle. Right now the bars have to be cut to spindle length which is adding a cut operation, increasing amount of remnants and slowing down production. The...

jfberns.com

You mentioned 6' bar feeders. I have an LNS Quick-Six on two of my machines. They work well. It's like the short bar loaders, but some of the bar sticks out the back of the spindle and is supported by a large polyurethane bushing. The only part you have to change out for different bar sizes is that bushing. I get mine from Trusty-Cook. They are expensive, though. I paid $450 for the last one I bought. Of course, you also have to change the spindle liner, but you have to do that for any style bar feeder. Although this is for 6' bars, the loader is still kind of long. I think mine is around 11' long. That part surprised me a little.

There are automatic bar loaders for 12' bars that would be shorter than your Hydrobar. When loading a new bar, they move the long pusher out of the way, so the loader doesn't need to be long enough for the bar + the pusher. It's something to keep in mind since space seems to be an issue.

Sure, cutting bars can suck, but so does chamfering bars. You have to have chamfered bars for your Hydrobar. The short and 6' bar loaders don't need chamfers. We just sand a small corner break on the ends so there is no burr. A 12' loader doesn't have to have a chamfer, but it really helps to get consistent bar changes if there is one.

 

[Pete Deal]

Wmpy that’s great info thanks for that. I don’t have any 5” parts now most are much shorter. I only mentioned 5” since it seems like a practical max length for the machine. Sounds like the smart thing to do in my case is to use the hydro bar ( it is the gatling gun type) at least as a first feeder. I think I can rearrange things in the shop so it doesn’t mess up the layout too badly.

I was wondering about the lns quick sixes so good info there!

My only other cnc lathe is a two axis mazak. There’s a whole lot more going on in this Miyano so figuring that out and learning Fanucese will keep me busy at first. This is my first Fanuc machine.

In reality i don’t have the work to justify this machine at the moment. I wanted a second lathe though and this seems to make a lot of sense for a one man show since it has a whole lot more one and done and unattended running capabilities.

 

[wmpy]

My machine is a BNC-34S, so it has smaller bar capacity, is an older generation, and doesn't have live tooling. Otherwise, it's pretty similar, I think. I regularly run a job that is a little over 6" long in it. I have to be careful when turning on the sub with a double turning holder that I don't hit the part in the main spindle with the other turning tool. There are some tricks I could use to run longer parts, but it might get complicated. Plus, the parts catcher isn't really made for parts that big.

I think the Fanuc will be pretty different from your Mazak, but you'll probably find it quite similar to your Brothers. You shouldn't have any problems learning it.

I think this machine makes great sense for a one man shop. It's made to run unattended with a bar feeder. I'm not sure how your machine is optioned out, but part catchers, part conveyors, chip conveyors, cut off detection, etc are all pretty common options on these machine. Do you know if your machine has full C-axis on both spindles? Or just spindle indexing? I ask because I've been looking at picking up one of these to replace my old Miyano.

 

[Pete Deal]

The one I bought has full c axis on both spindles, cut off detection and a conveyor.