New to me Monarch 10EE just arrived!

[PLC]

Looking good!

 

[bsg]

Do I have to work/think that hard about picture orientation?

If you don't want to jump through a bunch of hoops with a photo editor!

Kevin

 

[Peter.]

BTW, what do I need to do to make sure the picture rotation works out correctly?

If you have a windows PC just copy them on to your desktop, open in photogallery (the default viewer for windows on my pc) and hit the rotate arrow.

 

[bsg]

If you have a windows PC just copy them on to your desktop, open in photogallery (the default viewer for windows on my pc) and hit the rotate arrow.

Doesn't work with iPhone pic's.......you either have to take the pictures on the phone in the correct orientation or use a photo editor! The free software with windows hasn't worked so far? There's some embedded code in the photo's that display correctly in the preview, but rotate them to the original orientation when you post them?

If you do a quick search on the net you will find plenty of answers......

There's another work around for the pic's......edit the pictures on your phone to the correct orientation, then email them to your self. Open them on your computer and post from there.

Hope that helps!

Kevin

 

[rakort]

If you have a windows PC just copy them on to your desktop, open in photogallery (the default viewer for windows on my pc) and hit the rotate arrow.

This is the normal thing I do. I use MS "photos" to preview and rotate the pictures to look good on my PC, then uploaded they are rotated back to where they were.

I'll have to experiment a little more...is there a forum here someplace to play around and test things?

 

[Cal Haines]

... Also, most relays (including the one linked above) aren't rated for DC loads. In that case, a capacitor and perhaps an MOV could be used to protect the relay's contacts against arcing.

Thanks as always for your informative input. One questions out of this is what is "MOV" related to protecting a relay contact?

MOV stands for Metal Oxide Varistor. It's a type of surge suppressor. When you disconnect a DC load, particularly an inductive load (that is, one involving things like windings that create a magnetic field) the current wants to keep flowing and will find a way to do so, by arcing across the contacts of the relay if necessary. An MOV "breaks down" at a certain voltage and provides a path for the voltage spike. A capacitor across the contacts is also sometimes used to provide a discharge path for an inductive load.

Cal

 

[bsg]

This is the normal thing I do. I use MS "photos" to preview and rotate the pictures to look good on my PC, then uploaded they are rotated back to where they were.

I'll have to experiment a little more...is there a forum here someplace to play around and test things?

Just post them here, if it doesn't work just delete the post...…

Kevin

 

[rakort]

Progress

 

[rakort]

So some more progress, obtained a VFD to drive the MG set, assembled a drive cabinet and tested the MG 3-phase motor. MG set spins up nice and smooth and draws 1.8 AMPS on 220 VAC 3-phase with everything disconnected.

As far as testing the exciter and main generator I'm assuming that I have to setup a test rig to evaluate things and I can't simply do that with spindle motor and rheostat disconnected?

 

[rakort]

You have to go there someday, anyway, yah?

Aye


Good call on the load options, 2 good old fashion light bulbs got me 250 VDC off the exciter generator.

 

[rakort]

Tried the same off the main generator GS1 / GA2 and got next to squat regarding voltage/current. E1/E2 off the exciter with two 120VAC bulbs in series yielded the desired ~250VDC.

 

[rakort]

Bottom line is that:
- the main generator output will be negligible until its field coils are energized through its control rheostat.
So far they have not been so energized, hence the zero output, or near as dammit under any sort of load.
- the Field voltage will be high until it has the normal load on it of the final-drive motor's field coils though their control rheostat.
IOW - ALL your voltage readings will change once everything is back in-circuit, per OEM plan.

Understand completely, thanks for the response. I have just been impatiently toying around before I got everything hooked backed up and humoring myself about this billed as working MG set, sans a smoking component that later turned out to be the FWD contactor coil that someone wrongly rewound in the semi recent past, was in fact working.
I’ve convinced myself close enuff and am done messing around for now.

…….its own big Ohmite rheostat, nominally 400 to 0 Ohms, mid range on the Armature, steady on zero, second half of the range as it hits and holds full Armature power.
The other rheostat starts at zero ohms, holds that 'til mid-range, then ramps from zero to 400 Ohms, second half of its revolution as it progressively "weakens" the Field current.

Again, understand, as you may recall I recently graphed out the resistance profile of the ‘stat from a 115V exciter machine and will do the same from the 230V exciter machine as soon as I repair the two open spots in that ‘stat setup.

Now off to solve the problem of the vibration isolator mounts for the MG unit…..they are toast. I have some appropriate material but no capability, that I know of, to effectively cut it. Thinking about sending the material and a DXF to a local plastic supplier to water jet or laser cut it….to be continued.

 

[rakort]

Either clamp the elastomer between two sheets of sacrificial plywood and sabre-saw it, ELSE rig a CO2 blast to harden it and bandsaw it, naked.

I've used the technique to save Alloy wheels when a tire destroyed itself beyond tire-machine de-mountability. Needed a carbide oscillating saw to cut the bead wires, but the tread and sidewall were not that hard to saw, even naked.

Box knife works, too on some tribes of it, but its a tedious process and risky.

Wysong shear is another...

OTOH, a parts-bin walk, and there are automotive goods as should serve. Walker exhaust hangers, cut from tire cord or conveyor belting, etc.

So I had some scrap in-stock elastomer material burned up on what was probably a water jet cutter for a reasonable price.

now I have 2 sets of MG rubber isolator mounts

 

[rakort]

some other progress.

 

[murphatthepoint]

Rakort. Great work so far. I am following closely. Great basement shop. One comment my wife always makes: don’t die and leave me to clean up this mess. How will you remove all these machines when the time comes? I ask because I’ve been to too many estate sales! At 68 years old, my wife is asking a fair question.
Thanks for the extensive reporting on this site. I will continue to monitor.
Jim
San Diego

 

[rakort]

Rakort. Great work so far. I am following closely. Great basement shop. One comment my wife always makes: don’t die and leave me to clean up this mess. How will you remove all these machines when the time comes? I ask because I’ve been to too many estate sales! At 68 years old, my wife is asking a fair question.
Thanks for the extensive reporting on this site. I will continue to monitor.
Jim
San Diego

Good point.....its gonna take a rigger to get shit out of my basement....or a whole lot of breaking stuff down into small manageable pieces and still a rigger for some of the pieces.

 

[rakort]

MG Set brush holder spring tension adjustable and split brushes ?

So the inline MG I'm using has split brushes and is in good shape. The brush holder has two springs for each split brush. One half of the brush was worn more and it also has the greater spring tension of the two. So I'm wondering if the spring tension on these brush holders are adjustable? First look says no but need to study it a bit.

Also note in the other picture additional conductor on the brush holder shaft. The older one doesn't have this.

Also, thoughts on whether the split or one piece brushes are better?

 

[rakort]

Keep in mind that these pictures and the questions at hand are for the generator set not the final spindle drive motor.

So the inline MG I'm using has split brushes and is in good shape. The brush holder has two springs for each split brush. One half of the brush was worn more and it also has the greater spring tension of the two. So I'm wondering if the spring tension on these brush holders are adjustable? First look says no but need to study it a bit.

Also note in the other picture additional conductor on the brush holder shaft. The older one doesn't have this.

Also, thoughts on whether the split or one piece brushes are better?

View attachment 238972
View attachment 238973

 

[rakort]

I get the concept of current density. We just took a few brushes out of a 900HP DC motor at work to increase current density and improve commutator filming. (the motor is relatively lightly loaded compared to name plate).

The reason I bring up the whole topic is one half of the brushes have a higher spring tension and that brush is excessively worn. My other generator set has a single larger brush and they have a lot more meat left on them....I was considering swapping the brushes.

See pix below....


The single brush is marked with an H24
The double brushes are marked with 5410

 

[rakort]

NOW you have me wondering if there was also a secondary method to Reliance' madness after all in putting two sets of brushes atop the same swept commutator track on the 3 HP large-frame final-drive motor. May have just twigged as to why my motors had more brush types than they had motors, some of them clearly softer and slipperier than the others, and why those old Type T last as long as they do with low/no service required.

I hope I saved the stubs. I should take resistance measurements. Tamper spring tension as well.

Good on yah!

As with the recent discovery that DNA has more than just the ONE "code" we've been all ga ga about, we've been sorta starved for remaining 10EE "mysteries" for a while, too!

Well I did a little more reading....there is a LOT to brushes, their materials, and their service environment.

for example.....

https://www.mersen.com/uploads/tx_mersen/5-carbon-brush-technical-guide-mersen_07.pdf

Carbon Brush Reference : Repco Inc

http://www.argointl.com/wp-content/...Select_Brushes_for_Motors_and_Generators2.pdf

Well too much for me to digest for motor brushes!

I still haven't even been able to figure out if 5410 and H24 refer to physical brush size or brush material!?

At this point my gut says stop all the fretting and put the single piece brush set in place, bed them, and move on before my head explodes from over analyzing it.