New (to me) SB 9A that needs some attention... (Advice needed)

[Teachag]

A good friend of mine had three lathes in his shop. He got another project car and needed to rearrange the shop. He bought this lathe at a storage auction 30+ years ago. The first time he tried to use it the leather belt broke and it has sat untouched since. He called me up and told me if I could come out to his house that weekend with a trailer I could have it free. So I have this lathe in my shop now and am itching to use it but while it seems to be in fairly good condition for a nearly 70 year old piece of equipment it needs some attention from sitting for decades. The spindle seemed a little stiff so I pulled it to check the bearing surfaces which seemed fine but dirty. The wicks were a little worn and the left one when I pulled it out had a bent up spring so at a minimum I need to replace them. I also need to replace the belt. I am on the fence thinking about maybe trying a serpentine belt but being it is a UMD I would have to splice the belt.

Now I need to get the spindle oiling wicks which I found on Ebay for $20. I can also get the kit with all the felt for $44. I know what some of the pieces are for but I do not know the others and I have no idea what those red gaskets are for. South Bend Lathe 9" Model A - Rebuild Parts Kit | eBay I figure for the price, I should just get the whole kit. Then there is the option to get the kit with a rebuild book for $70 South Bend Lathe 9" UMD (Underneath Drive) - Rebuild Manual and Parts Kit | eBay or the option to get the kit with the book and oil for $110 South Bend Lathe 9" Model A ● Full Rebuild Package ● Manual, Felts, Oil, Grease! | eBay.

I realize that some of the links I posted were for the horizontal drive but the same seller offers kits for the UMD which I would order. Does anyone know if this book is worth the extra money? I cannot find much in the way of a rebuild manual online. Is the oil kit worth it? The bottles are only 4oz. Any advice here would be appreciated.

Also I am looking for ideas on the belt solution as well. Some of the reading I have done online indicates that the headstock sump should have a drain but I cannot find one. It is not where is shows in the diagrams and the oil in their looks like it came out of a diesel. Do I need to suction it out? Does anyone have any other advice or words of wisdom for me?

Here are a couple pictures of it when I first brought it into my shop

Here is the contents of one of the drawers. Note the old leather belt.

Here is a picture of it lined up with my two wood lathes.

 

[mcload]

​Wow...what a beauty! I wish I had a friend who would give me a nice lathe like that on an
original SB cabinet. I've always liked the sleeker look of an under-drive SB lathe.

If you are really itching to take it for a spin, then first order of biz is to oil the hell out of it
everywhere. Do not use motor oil. But in the back of your mind, remember that the oiling felts are more than
likely old, clogged, and hardened (not unlike myself), and that running it could be damaging
your lathe. You are a "top dog" for removing and checking the spindle first.

If it were me, I'd want the spindle oil reservoirs completely clean of old sludge. I'd use a handful of cotton
swabs and thoroughly clean out the holes with some min spirits, then screw the two GITS oilers back
in place. I would then replace the spring felts and oil it up with the spindle weight oil. I would then
simply order another leather belt w/pin for the meantime. Personally, I would pass on the little oil kit,
but get everything else.

Yes, buy the book and all of the felts....you will eventually want to completely go through this lathe before
you run it for any appreciable length of time. But for the time being, get a quart bottle of the spindle oil on order
as you will need that immediately:
1 QUART OF MOBIL VELOCITE SPINDLE OIL #6 BRIDGEPORT MILL & HARDINGE LATHE | eBay

Albino is a good outfit for a new belt, even if temporary.
Lathe belt pricing | Your choice of metal-laced belt with pin or complete glue kit

You can sweat the type of belt later. Pretty sure you will have to disassemble the lower unit and headstock just to
install a seamless serpentine type belt. Maybe do that during the rebuild? People seem to think highly of them;
I haven't gotten around to it just yet, but I definitely want a pinned belt.

Nice job on posting photos. Keep in touch with progress.
(I'm sure there is something I haven't thought about)

PMc

View attachment 321596

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

You owe your friend big time! No experience with SB myself, but would suggest getting the book and full wick set, not sure about the gaskets. I've pulled wicks out of 30 year old machines that were basically solid noodles of dried goo, so yes, you've got to do the wicks. Nice score, you stole it

Also look up the book "How to Run a Lathe", it is required reading.

 

[SLK001]

It's missing the two GITS oilers for the spindle. Do NOT operate the lathe until those are replaced.

The Ilion book is worth the money. The oils are not. Order some 16 oz plastic dispensers and gallon jugs of the four oils you'll need from McMaster, or MSC. You can also get the oilers from McMaster. Do not use the grease - use the "Type C" oil for the back gears. Type C oil worked for years in the back gears, plus, the grease is no longer made (and has no modern equivalent), so you'll be going back to the oil anyway, if you decide to use the grease.

 

[chipss]

What SLK said.

 

[pavt]

WOW you scored big time!! You *STOLE* it !!!
X2 what everyone else said, and yes you can still get new leather belts
Leather Drive Belts | Hudson Belting

Make sure you replace those spindle wicks and oiler cups. Clean the heck out of everything and use the proper oil. Gallon size is cheaper in the long run.

I use and recommend
Mobil Vactra #2 on the ways
Mobil DTE heavy/medium everywhere else except the spindle
Mobile Velocite #10 spindle oil

I just keep them in pump oiler cans.

 

[Teachag]

Thank you for all the replies. First I want to address all the comments about the deal I got. My friend knows what he gave me. He is kind of a father figure/best friend/mentor to me. I met him 23 years ago when I was in 9th grade and volunteering at the local historical society rebuilding antique tractors. He had just retired He kind of took me under his wing and mentored me. Eventually we became good friends. He is 75 and I am 38 but we hand out and I feel like I have more in common with him than with most of my friends that are my own age. Last year he called me up and asked me to come over to his shop to talk about something. He told me he was putting me in his will and leaving his 300+ piece vintage firearms collection and tools to me. I told him that was too generous and offered to be there to help his wife sell the items. He told me that she would not need the money and I was shocked when he told me he is a millionaire. He wears old patched jeans and until about four or five years ago, he drove the same truck that he bought used in the late 1960's when he got home from Vietnam. He is the most humble man and I have learned so much from him. I try to pass some of the lessons and mindsets he has passed to me on to my students (I am a high school shop teacher). I value my friendship with him more than any other with the exception of my wife and kids. Now that I have the emotional stuff out of the way... on to the technical stuff.

​Wow...what a beauty! I wish I had a friend who would give me a nice lathe like that on an
original SB cabinet. I've always liked the sleeker look of an under-drive SB lathe.

If you are really itching to take it for a spin, then first order of biz is to oil the hell out of it
everywhere. Do not use motor oil. But in the back of your mind, remember that the oiling felts are more than
likely old, clogged, and hardened (not unlike myself), and that running it could be damaging
your lathe. You are a "top dog" for removing and checking the spindle first.

If it were me, I'd want the spindle oil reservoirs completely clean of old sludge. I'd use a handful of cotton
swabs and thoroughly clean out the holes with some min spirits, then screw the two GITS oilers back
in place. I would then replace the spring felts and oil it up with the spindle weight oil. I would then
simply order another leather belt w/pin for the meantime. Personally, I would pass on the little oil kit,
but get everything else.

Yes, buy the book and all of the felts....you will eventually want to completely go through this lathe before
you run it for any appreciable length of time. But for the time being, get a quart bottle of the spindle oil on order
as you will need that immediately:
1 QUART OF MOBIL VELOCITE SPINDLE OIL #6 BRIDGEPORT MILL & HARDINGE LATHE | eBay

Albino is a good outfit for a new belt, even if temporary.
Lathe belt pricing | Your choice of metal-laced belt with pin or complete glue kit

You can sweat the type of belt later. Pretty sure you will have to disassemble the lower unit and headstock just to
install a seamless serpentine type belt. Maybe do that during the rebuild? People seem to think highly of them;
I haven't gotten around to it just yet, but I definitely want a pinned belt.

Nice job on posting photos. Keep in touch with progress.
(I'm sure there is something I haven't thought about)

PMc

View attachment 321596

First of all I want to compliment your lathe. It looks like it just came from the show room.

I don't know about "Top Dog", I just don't want to booger something up by being impatient. I want to take it for a spin but as you say but I am not going to jump the gun and do anything before I have it set up right. It is like pulling a classic car out of storage. It may start with some new fuel but it will not last if you do not completely go through it before trying to start it.

How do I flush out the reservoirs if there appears to be no drain? Suction?

I cannot put in an intact serpentine belt. On the UMD models there is a casting with two openings (think like an 8) where the belt goes through both openings. There is a thread on here where people talk about gluing the belt together. I really am not sure what I want to do on that one.

You owe your friend big time! No experience with SB myself, but would suggest getting the book and full wick set, not sure about the gaskets. I've pulled wicks out of 30 year old machines that were basically solid noodles of dried goo, so yes, you've got to do the wicks. Nice score, you stole it

Also look up the book "How to Run a Lathe", it is required reading.

My friend told me about that book. He has a couple of original copies which he said I could have one if I could not find one. I found it and printed it out. I have half a dozen or so SB publications in a binder now.

WOW you scored big time!! You *STOLE* it !!!
X2 what everyone else said, and yes you can still get new leather belts
Leather Drive Belts | Hudson Belting

Make sure you replace those spindle wicks and oiler cups. Clean the heck out of everything and use the proper oil. Gallon size is cheaper in the long run.

I use and recommend
Mobil Vactra #2 on the ways
Mobil DTE heavy/medium everywhere else except the spindle
Mobile Velocite #10 spindle oil

I just keep them in pump oiler cans.

What is best to use for a belt? Original leather, synthetic replacement like mcload linked? Serpentine? There are so many options. For example McMaster-Carr vs. McMaster-Carr

Also McMaster has the Mobil oil and a generic that is essentially the same specs for half the price. Is it worth it to get the Mobil?

It's missing the two GITS oilers for the spindle. Do NOT operate the lathe until those are replaced.

The Ilion book is worth the money. The oils are not. Order some 16 oz plastic dispensers and gallon jugs of the four oils you'll need from McMaster, or MSC. You can also get the oilers from McMaster. Do not use the grease - use the "Type C" oil for the back gears. Type C oil worked for years in the back gears, plus, the grease is no longer made (and has no modern equivalent), so you'll be going back to the oil anyway, if you decide to use the grease.

Thank you. I noticed that the GITS oil cups were missing and was going to get some new ones when I get the rest of this stuff. Thank you for the advice on the book. I will get it then.

 

[SLK001]

Here's the oiling chart for your lathe:

 

[pavt]

What is best to use for a belt? Original leather, synthetic replacement like mcload linked? Serpentine? There are so many options. For example McMaster-Carr vs. McMaster-Carr

Also McMaster has the Mobil oil and a generic that is essentially the same specs for half the price. Is it worth it to get the Mobil?

I use and prefer the automotive serpentine belt. Mine is a rear drive so I didn't have to cut it, but I did have to disassemble it to get it on. If there is any way at all to do this, I highly recommend it even if it takes all day to get it on.

At my old job, they had a big 16" SB with the leather belt and under mount drive. It worked just fine for that. I can't say anything about the synthetic belts or the link belts -- no experience with those.

The generic McMaster oil is probably OK. Hell any oil is better than none, people use all kinds of odd things on these. I figured it was best or safest to go with the original manufacturers spec, but it's not cast in stone. I understand that it is more important to make sure it gets oil on a schedule , than whatever kind of oil it is (within reason).

FWIW, here's my 1945 9A with no measurable wear on it: my new SB9A seup w/ metric gears (lots of pics)

 

[DanAl]

...
...
...

How do I flush out the reservoirs if there appears to be no drain? Suction?
...

My friend told me about that book. He has a couple of original copies which he said I could have one if I could not find one. I found it and printed it out. I have half a dozen or so SB publications in a binder now.
...
...
...

Do you have the SB publication titled Oiling the Lathe? It does show suction for removing oil from the reservoirs. The publication can likely be found on the Vintage Machinery site. Lots of additional info that you will find helpful in the publication.

By the way, great relationship you described with your friend.

 

[Teachag]

Here's the oiling chart for your lathe:

Thank you. I will print it and add that to my binder or maybe even hang it on the wall in my shop.

I use and prefer the automotive serpentine belt. Mine is a rear drive so I didn't have to cut it, but I did have to disassemble it to get it on. If there is any way at all to do this, I highly recommend it even if it takes all day to get it on.

At my old job, they had a big 16" SB with the leather belt and under mount drive. It worked just fine for that. I can't say anything about the synthetic belts or the link belts -- no experience with those.

The generic McMaster oil is probably OK. Hell any oil is better than none, people use all kinds of odd things on these. I figured it was best or safest to go with the original manufacturers spec, but it's not cast in stone. I understand that it is more important to make sure it gets oil on a schedule , than whatever kind of oil it is (within reason).

FWIW, here's my 1945 9A with no measurable wear on it: my new SB9A seup w/ metric gears (lots of pics)

First of all, cool pictures on your lathe. If I go the serpentine belt option I will have to splice it. I found a good thread on this site about doing it. This forum seems to be the best one when looking for info like this. Every time I google something it pops up it seems like but I digress. As I was saying, the way the UMD is cast, it is impossible to get a continuous belt on unless you were to torch a section of the main casting out which is not going to happen.

Do you have the SB publication titled Oiling the Lathe? It does show suction for removing oil from the reservoirs. The publication can likely be found on the Vintage Machinery site. Lots of additional info that you will find helpful in the publication.

By the way, great relationship you described with your friend.

That publication is also printed out in my binder. I guess I need to read it in detail. If we are talking about the same publication, it mentions a drain when I skimmed it. Maybe it talks about both. I will take a deeper dive. Thank you.

 

[SLK001]

Thank you. I will print it and add that to my binder or maybe even hang it on the wall in my shop.

Don't print that one out. PM me for a PDF version of the file (can't post a decent sized PDF on this site).

 

[SLK001]

...it mentions a drain when I skimmed it. Maybe it talks about both. I will take a deeper dive. Thank you.

It doesn't look like a UMD 9" model has a drain. If it did, it would be directly underneath the holes for the GITS oilders (it should be a hex socket plug). Is yours painted over?

 

[Teachag]

Don't print that one out. PM me for a PDF version of the file (can't post a decent sized PDF on this site).

Thank you. I will do that.

It doesn't look like a UMD 9" model has a drain. If it did, it would be directly underneath the holes for the GITS oilders (it should be a hex socket plug). Is yours painted over?

You are right. No drain plug and the book mentions suction. That is what I get for being like one of my students and skimming.