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New to me Van Norman 26

jdbouchard60

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 5, 2023
Location
Canada
Hi all, I am new to this forum. I just purchased a Van Norman 26 and when I was doing my research on the machine, I found a couple of post on this forum so I figured I would post my questions here.

Machine serial number is 26-5365 but I have no idea about mfg. date since the little name plate is gone. I’m going to pickup the machine later in February so no pictures yet, but I will post some as I’m rebuilding the machine.

My first order of business is going to be to convert it to run on 240V 3 phase motors since it is currently rigged to operate on 600V.
  • For some reason, the machine has a spindle motor of 3hp even though the documentation states that these machines should be running a spindle motor of 5hp. Do you think I should look for a 5hp or it’s fine with 3? This is going to be a garage mill that won’t see much heavy use.
  • The power feed motor is 2hp. Is it risky to run a 3hp instead? I’m worried about breaking stuff in the gearbox… I also heard that if you run a smaller VFD the motor is going to act like the VFD power. Meaning if I run a 2hp VFD on my 3hp motor, the motor is going to produce as much torque as a 2hp motor. Any thoughts on that?
I’m asking because I currently have 2 x 3hp motor that I could use for this conversion.
 
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While technology has loosened the rules a bit, you generally do not want to run two independently operated 3-phase motors on one VFD. A phase converter (rotary or electronic, like PhasePerfect $$$) will operate both motors fine. A VFD generally expects to get intimate with one motor, and having two motors independently switched on and off will not be a happy experience.
If 3HP spindle power is adequate for your needs, the machine won't suffer for not having a 5HP spindle.
As for the feed motor, a 2HP motor is ample to break anything that doesn't have an overload clutch or shear pin. So you probably won't be in any greater trouble with a 3HP motor. The #26 has the feed motor in the base, with a power shaft coming up parallel to the knee elevation screw, right? So if the base has ample room for the larger motor, go for it.
 
I was actually thinking about installing one VFD for each motor since it will also give me the ability to only turn on the spindle if I'm not using the power feed. These things are not as expensive as the used to be and I got the mill for a reasonable price so I don't mind spending a little bit of extra on the electrical side of things

Thanks !
 
I am trying to figure out the adapter bracket for the two motors ahead of time so I can get the machine up and running as quickly as possible when I get it.

I have all the info I need for the spindle motor but the power feed motor does not have its nameplate anymore. The machine is all packaged and wrapped at the vendor’s place, so I don’t feel like asking him to take some measurement. I cannot locate the info in any of the documentation either.

Could anyone with a VN26 take a quick look at the power feed nameplate and give me the frame number? Spindle is 225 and the PF looks like it has a similar bolt pattern but I don’t want to assume too much.

Thanks!
 
My VN is a #28A, with a totally different location for the feed motor, mounted to the right side of the knee. Can't help with that question on a #26.
 
That would make sens, thanks!
The only thing I know about the motor on mine is that it has a 1” shaft. Looking at the frame size chart the only two frames to ever have a 1” shaft were the 224 and the 225. The only difference between the two being the position of the rear bolt. At this point I will just build my bracket with slotted rear holes to accommodate both options. Easy enough.
 
On a slight tangent, the motor on my VN is so old (1956), it's from the earlier NEMA frame series. I decided to have a local motor shop relead and reseal the windings, rather than make an adaptor mount for a new(er) motor.
 
Releading was cheaper than buying a new motor. I think I paid somewhere between $100 and $200. For a one-time refurb, I didn't flinch. They washed out the stator windings, attached new leads (insulation was dying), and re-varnished the windings.
 
Here are a couple pics of VN 26 feed motor plate. Mine is from the early 40's I believe and has an open frame motor. The feed motor is tucked in the machine base where the nameplate can't easlily be photographed. These two came out best. Also added one of the coolant motor and pump tags. Ed.
 

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Hey thanks to everyone that replied. The motor frame was 225 for the power feed.

Just got the machine in and I’m starting the cleaning and swapping process.
PXL_20230227_182914137.jpgPXL_20230228_010757930.jpgPXL_20230228_010809945.MP.jpg
Here is a quick initial assessment of the machine.

Ram and Spindle have good clean oil in them and the spindle back bearing had some fresh grease in it. So that's encouraging.

Knee was bone dry, but everything inside looks pristine. The machine sat for 4 years before I bought it so I’m guessing the elevating screw is leaking and it drained out during storage.

The cavity inside the column was super nasty… lots of thick and sticky mud-like grease coating the whole interior. I proceeded to clean the whole thing to then find out that the power feed bearings were completely shut. I was kind of expecting that since it also seems to be a common issue on these machines. I think I’m not the first person to do this job on this machine since the bearings are just regular sealed bearings (not the 30 deg pressure angle ones). There was a lot of play in the shafts so I was afraid that the bevel gears would be worn out as well but there no visible sign of damage on them so that’s a relief.
PXL_20230302_143733835.jpg
I found some verry helpful post from on this forum regarding these issues. I’m currently trying to pullout the vertical bevel gear and its bearings but it’s in there pretty good. I chiseled all the overhanging lead and now I’m thinking about building a puller that screws in the four 1/4-20 holes and either pushes against the base or pulls towards the knee with a chain or something. Any suggestion or experiences on how to remove these parts would be appreciated at this point.

Thanks!
 
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If it is like the VN22L, I think some of the screw holes are threaded through the sleeve holding the bearings and can be used to jack it up.

1677772677659.jpeg
 
It is verry similar indeed and your previous post about that topic has been very helpful. I’m just afraid that I’m going to shear these poor ¼ screws trying to jack that out of there. You can see in the picture that I broke one already haha. I think a puller might be able to safely generate more force. I’m also going to heat the lead to soften it up as I’m trying to pull that thing out.
 
mine was a fairly tight fit, with sealant in the gap. once clean though it was a sliding fit, not a press fit. I took out the whole pan as you see, so it was easier to tell what was going on, and I had also removed the cap from the underside of the machine.

I'm thinking to get the splined shaft out you already had to have done that? Since IIRC there's a locknut on the bottom end of the splined shaft that holds it into the bearings?

You could always drop the whole pan. :) which means removing a lot more lead.
 
The bolt was not threaded on mine and I was able to pull the shaft right out. I can see the bolt at the bottom so it must have gotten loose from all the vibration.

I’m trying to avoid lifting the machine if I can. The thing that worries me right now is bolt 7366 on the diagram. I have no idea where that bolt(s) is, and I am worried that it is screwed horizontally between the casting and the flange to prevent it from coming out. I don't see that same bolt on the VN22 part diagram.1677785276846.png
 
From the diagram it also seems like there is a difference between the two models. On the 22 the bearing preload is achieved by tightening the locknut on the splined shaft. On VN26 it looks like the gear itself as an elongated shaft and some thread on it. The splined shaft as a retaining bolt but does not affect preload at all. Not sure how it affects the problem at hand though.1677786176427.png
 
Does the splined shaft have a threaded hole on the bottom for 112-823 to screw into, to retain it?

As you’ve said the 22 and 26 have differences and I’ve not seen a 26 so can’t comment more. It feels like VN intended those bearings to be serviced from above, but that means everything including 3-306 needs to pass through the bore.

It’s not clear as you say how 3-200 and 26-200 are held together.

Perhaps elevating the whole machine 1ft and removing the cap and the retaining nut from the bottom is easier?

When I did this I had the machine on its back because I was scraping the column anyway, and had the ram off too.
 
Machine serial number is 26-5365 but I have no idea about mfg. date since the little name plate is gone. I’m going to pickup the machine later in February so no pictures yet, but I will post some as I’m rebuilding the machine.
That would put the machines age about somewhere in 1941 or so, per my s/n reference book.
 








 
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