What's new
What's new

New to the Monarch family. 10ee

zamboni2354

Cast Iron
Joined
May 26, 2008
Location
Long Beach, CA.
Hey guys,

I don't post too often but have learned a lot lurking. I've wanted a smaller lathe to compliment my larger lathe in my home shop. I have a whacheon 17x40. I wanted either a HLVH or a 10ee. I ended up getting a HLVH English metric clone several months ago. It's pretty nice but I still kept an eye out for a real HLVH or 10ee.

I'm on Instagram under the name @anotherhomeshopguy and a guy that follows me sent me a message that he saw 2 at a scrap yard and asked if I was interested. I was. He picked them up for me and I just got them yesterday.

Here's pics: pretty rough, been sitting outside for months but I figured with one being an English metric with taper attachment it was worth the risk and worst case scenario I could part out and get my money back.

The English metric was made in 1988. Looks like the original solid state drive. I got the order sheet from monarch and it was order at 460v. So I'll have to see if that can be easily changed to 230. I've read that these require true 3 phase but that a phase perfect converter will work. I have a phase perfect.

I don't see the knob for changing the speeds.

The 2nd machine has more rust and is missing the tailstock. It was rebuilt in 91 and has been converted to a DC solid state drive with a pacemaster 2.

I'm hoping most of the 1988 machine is OK and will use the 2nd for parts. The large handwheel for moving the carriage on both machines is broken so I'll need one of those at some point.

Anyway, looks like I have a lot of work ahead of me!!

Jeff
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m-lud

Stainless
Joined
Sep 4, 2016
Location
Missouri
Hey guys,

I don't post too often but have learned a lot lurking. I've wanted a smaller lathe to compliment my larger lathe in my home shop. I have a whacheon 17x40. I wanted either a HLVH or a 10ee. I ended up getting a HLVH English metric clone several months ago. It's pretty nice but I still kept an eye out for a real HLVH or 10ee.

I'm on Instagram under the name @anotherhomeshopguy and a guy that follows me sent me a message that he saw 2 at a scrap yard and asked if I was interested. I was. He picked them up for me and I just got them yesterday.

Here's pics: pretty rough, been sitting outside for months but I figured with one being an English metric with taper attachment it was worth the risk and worst case scenario I could part out and get my money back.

The English metric was made in 1988. Looks like the original solid state drive. I got the order sheet from monarch and it was order at 460v. So I'll have to see if that can be easily changed to 230. I've read that these require true 3 phase but that a phase perfect converter will work. I have a phase perfect.

I don't see the knob for changing the speeds.

The 2nd machine has more rust and is missing the tailstock. It was rebuilt in 91 and has been converted to a DC solid state drive with a pacemaster 2.

I'm hoping most of the 1988 machine is OK and will use the 2nd for parts. The large handwheel for moving the carriage on both machines is broken so I'll need one of those at some point.

Anyway, looks like I have a lot of work ahead of me!!

Jeff
dab8a209aead254cbb3f271c17c0d373.jpg
171779e80c5b476983d1b4d235590d4c.jpg
ce0b1a9d1f07c159b9217974de686250.jpg
6c0e21bd4d24e7b682f4695eb683e4cb.jpg
fdc5b9d55b7510b49e5c610ba442ec59.jpg


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A razor blade held at the right angle shaves the bulk of rust like that off. Good luck with your lathe's
 

Don's Engine

Aluminum
Joined
May 29, 2020
I found it amazing how well these come back to life. An old SB in that shape really would be scrap. Nice find!! Don
 

m-lud

Stainless
Joined
Sep 4, 2016
Location
Missouri
Good Ole military with unlimited funds I suppose. Lol. Thanks.

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They aren't wasting their money and really don't have any appreciation for a precision machine.

Zamboni
It really doesn't effect running the lathe but did they come with the end covers?

Don's Engine
I have cleaned up both South Bends and Monarch's . The Monarch's don't seem too rust pits as easy if left outside. It has too be the difference in the cast/steel mix.


Those two lathes should clean up nice. At least someone seen some value before they hit the melting pot. Scrappers know what to set aside and give a second chance.
 

TheOldCar

Stainless
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Location
Utah, USA
I only skim read and didn't realize you got two! Looks like the I/M from 1988 is NOT the rebuilt one, also! NICE.
 

zamboni2354

Cast Iron
Joined
May 26, 2008
Location
Long Beach, CA.
I only skim read and didn't realize you got two! Looks like the I/M from 1988 is NOT the rebuilt one, also! NICE.
Yeah, two of them. I didn't want to overload my initial post with too many pics. The one missing the tailstock was made in 59-61 then rebuilt in 91. Ways aren't that great and missing the tailstock but plenty of good parts if I need any for the I/m machine. Here's some more pic's of the 2nd one and it's electricals:
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zamboni2354

Cast Iron
Joined
May 26, 2008
Location
Long Beach, CA.
I only skim read and didn't realize you got two! Looks like the I/M from 1988 is NOT the rebuilt one, also! NICE.
Here are more of the regenerative drive and other pics of the I/m machine. I ordered the manualfrom monarch. Hopefullythere'sa wiring schematic:

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bob

Titanium
Joined
Aug 12, 2002
Location
Regina, Canada
I run my IM on a Phase Perfect no problem. But you have to get the phase rotation right or it wont go. There should be sticker in the cabinets .
Bob
 

zamboni2354

Cast Iron
Joined
May 26, 2008
Location
Long Beach, CA.
I run my IM on a Phase Perfect no problem. But you have to get the phase rotation right or it wont go. There should be sticker in the cabinets .
Bob
Good to know Bob! I have a 10hp phase perfect. No sticker in the cabinet. Hopefully the manual has more info on the electronics. I want to clean all the dust and dirt off the electronics and try to confirm it's all wired correctly before trying it. The order sheet shows it was ordered 460v. I need to confirm it hasn't been messed with and then figure out how hard to convert to 230v.

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bob

Titanium
Joined
Aug 12, 2002
Location
Regina, Canada
If I slam it into stop running at 4000 (never need that speed) it will fault out. I think this more because of marginal wiring in the shop rather than a problem with the drive, at lower speed it never happens. Cant help with the 460 volt but a small transformer might be the easiest solution
Bob
 

Maxim

Stainless
Joined
Apr 29, 2005
Location
Colorful Colorado
I also have a Defense Logistics Agency rebuilt 10ee, done about the same time. Mine had the ways reground, you can tell by the turcite under the carriage.
The one I have had a new DC drive installed but its different then yours.

I hope your 10EE comes out great and gives you many more decades of service
 

thermite

Diamond
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Location
Sol, Terra
Good to know Bob! I have a 10hp phase perfect. No sticker in the cabinet. Hopefully the manual has more info on the electronics. I want to clean all the dust and dirt off the electronics and try to confirm it's all wired correctly before trying it. The order sheet shows it was ordered 460v. I need to confirm it hasn't been messed with and then figure out how hard to convert to 230v.

See later note in re the motor, but you may not need to "convert" it at all. 460 VAC was the working Voltage expectation, not the minimum.

That class of DC drive should actually provide "useful" DC output off any decent 3-Phase AC from well below 230 VAC up to around 480 VAC. "stand" 500 VAC (and a bit..) on the input.

The maximum DC output Voltage (and current) are then determined by adjustments on the drive's own control boards.

At 230 VAC 3-phase input, a '6-pulse" DC drive delivered 250 VDC out. That's the "physics", not the brand-name.

You WILL need a manual.. partly to insure it is optioned so the "brains" get THEIR independent power, usually 120 VAC or 240 VAC, single-phase - to their own power supply/regulator. Those typically run at 24 VDC or +/- 15 VDC and typically use reference/control signals in the 10 to 20 V range.

That said, from your photos, there are rather a lot of small & medium electrolytic capacitors that have poor odds of still being good.

VERY poor odds. Replacing the drive, entire, rather than doing board-level updates maintenance is almost certainly faster and cheaper.

FIRST .. you need to check the final-drive DC motor. Normally, all DC motors Monarch used for 10EE were nominally 230 V DC, regardless of what the AC side into the MG, Tube, or Solid-state DC drive was.

Sabina had some, not all, motors rewound for 440 or so DEE CEE. They might not have been the only drive maker who did that?

You "probably" have a tachogenerator grafted onto the motor as well? MOST 3-Phase DC drives for 10EE utilized such.

Meanwhile..

"The good news is.."

- That there are PLENTY of used-but-good far, FAR, NEWER 3-Phase-input DC drives in the market that can deliver "up to.." 250+ Volts DC directly off a 230-240 Volt 3-Phase AC feed.

Wiring became dirt-simple as the majority of the hardware in your older one was shrunken and became part of the drive's own package.

- Used but good single-phase DC Drives have gotten scarcer, but NEW ones with standard warranty can be had for around US $ 800 - $ 1200.

Those WILL need a boost/isolation transformer off 230-240 VAC - to around 300- 350 VAC, "sweet spot" about 320 VAC input.

They CAN be run directly off 440-480 VAC, single-phase. If you HAVE that.

A "drive isolation" transformer is a good idea in any case, even if no boost is needed. They make good filters in the specific zone needed. "Autotransformer" OTOH, do NOT filter.

SCR DC drives need that ... or a bespoke filer, capable of substantial current - to block the switching hash SCR's impose back UP the supply-side line into everything else on your shop/residence "local grid" otherwise.

Absent significant boost, single-phase DC Drives can only output 180-190 Volts, DC load-motor side off a 220-240 VAC input. That makes turns, but doesn't provide full power, nor regulate well at all under load, "Field Weakened" zone worst of all..

Your purchase came along as a "good time" of the century for sharing.

In addition to several PM members running various 3-Phase solid-state DC drives for long years, there is a Sabina just put back in service and already making chips - running off a rather modestly-sized RPC, yet:

Resurrecting 1960 10EE with 460V Sabina drive

"On the menu", AKA "round-tuit-wish-list" a Baldor (for a L&S "AVS"):

Lodge & Shipley AVS 2013

...and for the 10EE, one-each Eurotherm, an AddVantage-32, and a Sprint-Electric/Bardac 14 kW. Those last three queued-up as 'winter projects" under my own roof.. for testing off RPC source as well as Phase-Perfect vs "real" (rotary) utility-mains-grade "properly balanced" 3-Phase sources.

Many hands and eyes, shared, this need not be all that difficult?

Or so we hope!

:D
 

bob

Titanium
Joined
Aug 12, 2002
Location
Regina, Canada
picture of the label I mentioned. Also note missing fuses. Sure hope this is not a sign that someone was trying to "fix" it
Bob
 

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thermite

Diamond
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Location
Sol, Terra
picture of the label I mentioned. Also note missing fuses. Sure hope this is not a sign that someone was trying to "fix" it
Bob

Label is consistent with 'extra' information for an after-as-built third-party drive system. Not sure why a Thyristor-class DC drive would care about phase sequence, given rectified is rectified, but if they built it that way, BFD, respect it.
 

zamboni2354

Cast Iron
Joined
May 26, 2008
Location
Long Beach, CA.
picture of the label I mentioned. Also note missing fuses. Sure hope this is not a sign that someone was trying to "fix" it
Bob
Bob,
Yes, I have that sticker too! Thanks for the pic of the fuses, just ordered them. I thought the same thing. Hopefully it turns out ok.

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