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No power feed or gear changes on 1941 Cincinnati no2 horizontal

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
I'd need a pic to know exactly. But does it look like this:
D3174C - Bijur L5P-R One Shot Lubrication Pump - H & W Machine Repair

That link shows a clear plastic tank, mine is older and is aluminum. The pump itself is part of the oil tank. Oil tank can be removed from the pump. With tank off, you will probably see a felt filter in bottom of pump. Not sure your style filter, but they usually use felt. Could make your own if you have felt on hand, or buy a filter, if this is the style:

S109 - Bijur One Shot Filter Kit For Models L5H, L5P and L19P - H & W Machine Repair

The line at top of pump assembly. either remove it from pump, or the other end of line. Pump handle, what happens ? Oil should come out real easy. If not filter on pump is probably clogged.

There are bijur pop fittings. In theory they pop off at 5 or 10 psi. I hate them, because they have their own tiny filter which plugs up, plus a tiny internal spring assisted valve of sorts. Normally you replace them when they plug up. I personally gut them of the filter and valve. But to do that, you'd want to do all in the tree associated with them. If you have one bad one replace it. Those special fitting have sizes stamped on them like: 00

With the size, you order what you need, on this site they call them oil meter, scroll down:
Bijur Lubrication Products - H & W Machine Repair

If you did ever choose to gut the fittings, again you need to do all in same tree or oil line. An example here in post #170:
Oerlikon Italiana Milling Machine size "3", Model MN3H

If you can see the bijur pop fitting, in following the oil lines, then you dont need to tear machine apart. Just take it out. MAYBE the oil lines are plugged, but i'd start at the fitting. If the fitting is hidden, well. . . might have to find it.

If you dont have time to get into a teardown, dont. Use an oil can or something to shoot onto whatever is not getting oil, wipe it around, or whatever.
 

calvin b

Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Location
E-burg MD USA
Dope Sir,
If memory serves.. There is another oiler on the right side of the knee. Also, there is a fine screen type filter that tends to get get gunked up over time that may need cleaning. Check your owners manual. Also the correct way oil is vactra #1 or some version of that ( ISO 32 perhaps ? ). I made the mistake of putting vactra #2 in mine and the screen was/is so fine it had a hard time seeping through. Had to flush it with kerosene.. Try it after it has set for a bit ( like over night) and see if enough oil has seeped in. You should be able to pull the oiler out and it will stay out for at least a minute as it oils the whole system..
Another observation/experience on my part.. With my machine, it sat for who knows how long ( there is a thread about it somewhere and a pic of it sitting in the bushes in the scrap yard waiting to go to the smelter 400 yards down the way ) and the oil lines were dry and when I put the heavier oil in it seemed to air lock the system. I flushed it with kero and worked the saddle back-n-forth after manually oiling things. This may very well work for you and save you the agony of removing the table. Once you get the system primed you'll have a gusher !
Hope this helps
Stay safe
Calvin B
 
Last edited:

Dope

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
I'd need a pic to know exactly. But does it look like this:
D3174C - Bijur L5P-R One Shot Lubrication Pump - H & W Machine Repair

That link shows a clear plastic tank, mine is older and is aluminum. The pump itself is part of the oil tank. Oil tank can be removed from the pump. With tank off, you will probably see a felt filter in bottom of pump. Not sure your style filter, but they usually use felt. Could make your own if you have felt on hand, or buy a filter, if this is the style:

S109 - Bijur One Shot Filter Kit For Models L5H, L5P and L19P - H & W Machine Repair

The line at top of pump assembly. either remove it from pump, or the other end of line. Pump handle, what happens ? Oil should come out real easy. If not filter on pump is probably clogged.

There are bijur pop fittings. In theory they pop off at 5 or 10 psi. I hate them, because they have their own tiny filter which plugs up, plus a tiny internal spring assisted valve of sorts. Normally you replace them when they plug up. I personally gut them of the filter and valve. But to do that, you'd want to do all in the tree associated with them. If you have one bad one replace it. Those special fitting have sizes stamped on them like: 00

With the size, you order what you need, on this site they call them oil meter, scroll down:
Bijur Lubrication Products - H & W Machine Repair

If you did ever choose to gut the fittings, again you need to do all in same tree or oil line. An example here in post #170:
Oerlikon Italiana Milling Machine size "3", Model MN3H

If you can see the bijur pop fitting, in following the oil lines, then you dont need to tear machine apart. Just take it out. MAYBE the oil lines are plugged, but i'd start at the fitting. If the fitting is hidden, well. . . might have to find it.

If you dont have time to get into a teardown, dont. Use an oil can or something to shoot onto whatever is not getting oil, wipe it around, or whatever.

So it turns out, this isn't one of those standalone one-shot Bijur oilers, it's built into the machine. Maybe some sort of collaboration between companies? It sure looks like a factory piece, but it has a Bijur label on it.

Right side of the saddle, you can see the sight glass for the reservoir and the little pull handle on the right side:

iNgkTWR.jpg


Close up shot:

p7mdcIO.jpg


I took it apart and the entire reservoir was filled with sludge. I cleaned everything out and flushed it with acetone. I blew out all the lines with compressed air. I'm getting airflow through the pump and all the fittings but it still doesn't pump oil after re-assembling it. It makes a sound that sounds like slightly wet air moving. Once in a while, if you let the pump handle really snap shut, it shoots a mist of oil out but nothing substantial. I think there might be a bad seal inside that long cylindrical pump or something, because I took it apart this far and I'm still not getting any real flow out of the coiled tube (the beginning of my expertly photoshopped white lines).

HtirIiV.jpg


You can see the "pop fitting" as you called it, it doesn't look like a modern one as it has female/male fittings instead but it appears to be a similar idea, it's got some sort of small valve inside of it and it has a number 5 engraved on it. I ran out of time so I put that whole assembly into a vat of acetone and will let it soak till next time. I'll contact Bijur and see if they sell any parts for this, I doubt it but you never know.

I contemplated saying "screw it" and just manually oiling the ways, but according to the manual, this pump also lubricates "saddle parts", I assume the gears inside the saddle for power feed and such. So I figured I'd at least give it a decent shot at fixing it.

Edit: a look at Bijur's website shows they still make these pumps, amazingly enough: http://www.bijurdelimon.com/fileadmin/products/docs/bdius/Datasheets/35530_LUB_KI-Pump_DS-R5.pdf Only $700 for a new one! LOL I guess I'll give them a call and see if they sell seals/filters for these.
 

Dope

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Dope Sir,
If memory serves.. There is another oiler on the right side of the knee. Also, there is a fine screen type filter that tends to get get gunked up over time that may need cleaning. Check your owners manual. Also the correct way oil is vactra #1 or some version of that ( ISO 32 perhaps ? ). I made the mistake of putting vactra #2 in mine and the screen was/is so fine it had a hard time seeping through. Had to flush it with kerosene.. Try it after it has set for a bit ( like over night) and see if enough oil has seeped in. You should be able to pull the oiler out and it will stay out for at least a minute as it oils the whole system..
Another observation/experience on my part.. With my machine, it sat for who knows how long ( there is a thread about it somewhere and a pic of it sitting in the bushes in the scrap yard waiting to go to the smelter 400 yards down the way ) and the oil lines were dry and when I put the heavier oil in it seemed to air lock the system. I flushed it with kero and worked the saddle back-n-forth after manually oiling things. This may very well work for you and save you the agony of removing the table. Once you get the system primed you'll have a gusher !
Hope this helps
Stay safe
Calvin B

Thanks! And yes, I think this is the oiler you're talking about. Good call on the Vactra, I had issues with filling the reservoir as it couldn't get through the filter fast enough and kept overflowing. I did clean the hell out of that screen on my disassembly mentioned in the post above, so it should be good now. Interestingly enough, I looked at a couple manuals between the 30s and 50s for these machines, and they all say to use DTE medium (25) in this reservoir. I would have (and did) assumed way oil but I guess this oiler is also hitting some saddle gears, which is why they wanted hydraulic oil. Interesting.
 

calvin b

Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Location
E-burg MD USA
Hey Dope, Sir
My experience is with a '2L' which is all mechanical ( no hydraulics ).. Anyhow DTE medium would be an ISO 46 oil..( cinci oil P-55) My manual calls for way oil (P-53) which is ISO 32 or vactra #1. Interesting. The plunger/pump in mine had leather seals and after a bit they absorbed enough oil to begin pumping and have been working ever since.. MY oil system is real sensitive to air locking.. ( even with the 'right' oil ) I have to pull the pump out, hold it out for ten seconds or so and then let it go. It will stay out for over a minute pushing oil all over once it's primed..
Now that you have cleaned it and has sat for a bit let me know how it works..
Do you have another oiler on the knee ? Just asking as mine does. And ,yes I know the 2L is a bit of an odd ball in cinci world.
Stay safe
Calvin B
PS DTE medium is not a hydraulic oil but rather a 'circulating oil', while it can be used as a hydraulic oil it's main use is for gears in a wet environment.. think steam turbine or some such.. FWIW
 

Dope

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Hey Dope, Sir
My experience is with a '2L' which is all mechanical ( no hydraulics ).. Anyhow DTE medium would be an ISO 46 oil..( cinci oil P-55) My manual calls for way oil (P-53) which is ISO 32 or vactra #1. Interesting. The plunger/pump in mine had leather seals and after a bit they absorbed enough oil to begin pumping and have been working ever since.. MY oil system is real sensitive to air locking.. ( even with the 'right' oil ) I have to pull the pump out, hold it out for ten seconds or so and then let it go. It will stay out for over a minute pushing oil all over once it's primed..
Now that you have cleaned it and has sat for a bit let me know how it works..
Do you have another oiler on the knee ? Just asking as mine does. And ,yes I know the 2L is a bit of an odd ball in cinci world.
Stay safe
Calvin B
PS DTE medium is not a hydraulic oil but rather a 'circulating oil', while it can be used as a hydraulic oil it's main use is for gears in a wet environment.. think steam turbine or some such.. FWIW

Yup, there is an oiler on the other side (left side) of the knee. It's got a fill/drain/sight glass but no pump, it says it's an automatic oiler for all of the knee parts. Takes the same oil (P-55 spec).

Interesting note about the DTE medium, do you know if they make something more appropriate for this application?
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
Yup, there is an oiler on the other side (left side) of the knee. It's got a fill/drain/sight glass but no pump, it says it's an automatic oiler for all of the knee parts. Takes the same oil (P-55 spec).

Interesting note about the DTE medium, do you know if they make something more appropriate for this application?

Probably splitting hairs here, but the refining process has altered for a bunch of petroleum products since these machines were released. I think you'll find DTE heavy/medium is a good all around weight if you consolidating down to one or two oils. There are two DTE's, circulating and hydraulic, not always marked clearly, i like to cross reference the part number to be sure. DTE, Dynamo, Turbine, Engine.

Both hydraulic and circulating oil are processed from the same stock of mineral oil.

I have a decent thread I'll link you on oils later.
 

calvin b

Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Location
E-burg MD USA
TG Sir
Actually it's a relativity simple nomenclature that Mobil devised for it's oils.. Named oil ( for example)DTE medium is a 'circulating oil'. Just plain old oil. The numbered series have EP ( extreme pressure ) additives in them. So named is plain and numbered has additives.
If there is even a controversy it's that some older type of bronze and other bearing material can be degraded by the EP additives.
Cincinnati had their own oil company subsidiary and more or less had their own line of lubes thus the 'P' series stuff you see in the manuals.. I crossed referenced a bunch of their oils with the Mobil industrial tech line so I'm just recommending what cincy recommended for my 1937 machine.
Hope that clears things up..
Dope, Sir
Iff'n it be me and cincy called for dte medium that's what I'd stick to. The engineers, though probably lone gone knew more about what they were doing with the specs than I. Does it call for the same oil in the gear box/hydraulic system ? If so it would keep any cross contamination out of the system. I'd call that smart..
Stay safe
Calvin B
PS Dope sir and TG
Thanks for hound dgg'n that bujur link.. Cool to see they still make replacement parts ( leather seals ??? ) for my 1937 system..way cool !
PPSS..
I seem to remember that the reservoir cap/plug had a breather hole in it that was painted over on my machine.. may be worth a casual look see...
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
Hope that clears things up..

We're all good. I like hearing different ideas and opinions. :cheers:

I come across the oil debate a bit. I wrote something up a while ago in another section. Not specified for this machine, but has good links for researching some good stuff. Also the bottom 3 links in that post are previous discussions here on PM, post #272:
Need some encouragement

One of my favorite posts comes from a well respect guy and machine rebuilder in Forrest Addy, pretty funny imo, post #14:
What is the difference between Mobil DTE Light and Mobile DTE 24?
 

Dope

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
TG Sir
Actually it's a relativity simple nomenclature that Mobil devised for it's oils.. Named oil ( for example)DTE medium is a 'circulating oil'. Just plain old oil. The numbered series have EP ( extreme pressure ) additives in them. So named is plain and numbered has additives.
If there is even a controversy it's that some older type of bronze and other bearing material can be degraded by the EP additives.
Cincinnati had their own oil company subsidiary and more or less had their own line of lubes thus the 'P' series stuff you see in the manuals.. I crossed referenced a bunch of their oils with the Mobil industrial tech line so I'm just recommending what cincy recommended for my 1937 machine.
Hope that clears things up..
Dope, Sir
Iff'n it be me and cincy called for dte medium that's what I'd stick to. The engineers, though probably lone gone knew more about what they were doing with the specs than I. Does it call for the same oil in the gear box/hydraulic system ? If so it would keep any cross contamination out of the system. I'd call that smart..
Stay safe
Calvin B
PS Dope sir and TG
Thanks for hound dgg'n that bujur link.. Cool to see they still make replacement parts ( leather seals ??? ) for my 1937 system..way cool !
PPSS..
I seem to remember that the reservoir cap/plug had a breather hole in it that was painted over on my machine.. may be worth a casual look see...

We're all good. I like hearing different ideas and opinions. :cheers:

I come across the oil debate a bit. I wrote something up a while ago in another section. Not specified for this machine, but has good links for researching some good stuff. Also the bottom 3 links in that post are previous discussions here on PM, post #272:
Need some encouragement

One of my favorite posts comes from a well respect guy and machine rebuilder in Forrest Addy, pretty funny imo, post #14:
What is the difference between Mobil DTE Light and Mobile DTE 24?

Thank you both. Who knew that oil was such a contentious subject? Now to fall down the rabbit hole with some homework :D
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
Thank you both. Who knew that oil was such a contentious subject? Now to fall down the rabbit hole with some homework :D

Not my pic, so might give you an idea :D

322.jpg

To calvin b, Re-reading one of my previous posts, I think I had two thoughts running through my head, and didn't spit either of them out right, lol. I meant to show the weight difference between DTE medium and DTE heavy/medium, was one of those.

The other thought, about some confusion, was about who marks the bottles. Some might get from msc direct, or a local distributor. My last purchase was from a local distributor J.A.M.

Well they do bulk, and I made my order. But if you look at the bottle's label it does not say if circulating or hydraulic:

306.jpg

By using the product or manufacture code you can confirm. Even msc direct has the one of the codes on their listing.

I seem to recall a problem on an online listing where pic didn't match description, or something along that line from msc direct, but its been several years, I forget the details now.

So what I try to do is match the product code. Two links I forgot were not in my previous links, but show product codes:

Products codes by number:
http://theoilnet.com/Atlantic-States-Lubricants/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/industrial-19.pdf

Product codes by oil name:
Mobil All Industrial Products

Examples:

307.jpg 308.jpg
 

svs

Hot Rolled
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Location
Riverdale, Nebraska, USA
Not saying you don’t have oiling problems, but the 2mh plunger operates by repeatedly pulling the plunger out then releasing it. Once the system is is full the plunger will stay out and gradually retract by spring pressure as oil moves through the orifi.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Dope

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Not saying you don’t have oiling problems, but the 2mh plunger operates by repeatedly pulling the plunger out then releasing it. Once the system is is full the plunger will stay out and gradually retract by spring pressure as oil moves through the orifi.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed, that's the same experience I have with my 2MH, so I was a little confused when it wasn't happening that way on my new No 2.
 

Dope

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Thanks for hound dgg'n that bujur link.. Cool to see they still make replacement parts ( leather seals ??? ) for my 1937 system..way cool !
PPSS..
I seem to remember that the reservoir cap/plug had a breather hole in it that was painted over on my machine.. may be worth a casual look see...

Just thought I'd update on this bit, the link I posted earlier was for a newer version of the KIB/KIC pumps. I talked to Bijur and they sent me the service manual for the old-style KIB which is what I have (also with the leather seals, as you mentioned).

lztVyd7.jpg


If you google these part numbers, you can find places selling some or all of these parts. The leather cup seals are like $5 and the filter kit is $16. Bijur does sell some of it but they have a $40 minimum order. Based on what the leather cup seals look like in this document, mine are completely trashed - you can barely even see that they're still there, they're so thin and worn out. I suspect this is why my pump mostly only moves air - can't make a good seal with the piston.
 

Dope

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
All right so, I've been working on this off and on for a bit. I machined up some power feed stops and new spindle drive lugs (slightly narrower so I can use CAT50 tooling):

A9Nq3Ir.jpg

(the extra lugs are for my 2MH which has the powered overarm)

I got those leather cup seals for the bijur oiler. Before and after:

fzpUpA2.jpg


guwmiIu.jpg


I THINK maybe the leather was a little worn and that's why I wasn't getting any pressure with the pump. Just mayyyybeeee...

Funnily enough, shortly after this pic was taken, I had to back off the nut a bunch because I couldn't even fit the whole piston inside the pump's tube - the leather seals were too oversized. I backed off the nut too far and the spring launched all the parts straight into my ceiling fan of the shop. Spent 2.5 hours on my hands and knees and found every piece except one of the leather seals. Pretty lucky, considering obtaining the other parts was likely a much larger pain than just ordering another set of seals. Anyway, I finally got it all back together and it works great. Takes like 2 minutes for it to full depress after pulling it out.

Only problem now is, I'm clearly getting oil in some spots but not others (nothing on the table screw or on the saddle ways for example). I decided to bite the bullet and pull the table after all, because I couldn't be sure what was and what wasn't getting oil. Turns out, there's a lot more lines than I expected:

YUoj7N9.jpg


So after pulling a few lines from the tree, it's obvious that the culprit is exactly what you talked about, seen below:

I'd need a pic to know exactly. But does it look like this:
D3174C - Bijur L5P-R One Shot Lubrication Pump - H & W Machine Repair

That link shows a clear plastic tank, mine is older and is aluminum. The pump itself is part of the oil tank. Oil tank can be removed from the pump. With tank off, you will probably see a felt filter in bottom of pump. Not sure your style filter, but they usually use felt. Could make your own if you have felt on hand, or buy a filter, if this is the style:

S109 - Bijur One Shot Filter Kit For Models L5H, L5P and L19P - H & W Machine Repair

The line at top of pump assembly. either remove it from pump, or the other end of line. Pump handle, what happens ? Oil should come out real easy. If not filter on pump is probably clogged.

There are bijur pop fittings. In theory they pop off at 5 or 10 psi. I hate them, because they have their own tiny filter which plugs up, plus a tiny internal spring assisted valve of sorts. Normally you replace them when they plug up. I personally gut them of the filter and valve. But to do that, you'd want to do all in the tree associated with them. If you have one bad one replace it. Those special fitting have sizes stamped on them like: 00

With the size, you order what you need, on this site they call them oil meter, scroll down:
Bijur Lubrication Products - H & W Machine Repair

If you did ever choose to gut the fittings, again you need to do all in same tree or oil line. An example here in post #170:
Oerlikon Italiana Milling Machine size "3", Model MN3H

If you can see the bijur pop fitting, in following the oil lines, then you dont need to tear machine apart. Just take it out. MAYBE the oil lines are plugged, but i'd start at the fitting. If the fitting is hidden, well. . . might have to find it.

If you dont have time to get into a teardown, dont. Use an oil can or something to shoot onto whatever is not getting oil, wipe it around, or whatever.



So long story short, it looks like all my pop fittings are clogged - or most of them anyway. I pulled the fittings off and tried to blow them out with 145PSI and nothing. I've got them soaking in an acetone bath now.

Question: you said you gutted them - did you just drill them out? How did you know what size to go with, or did you just size it based on the inlet/outlet size so they just free flow?

I figure I'll end up doing the same thing, now that I have access to all the lines and fittings. PITA but I'm glad I did it, there were lots of mating gears inside the saddle that weren't getting oil, mostly power feed stuff. So if I had gone the lazy route and just oiled the screws and ways manually, I'd have had a major problem sooner or later.
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
So long story short, it looks like all my pop fittings are clogged - or most of them anyway. I pulled the fittings off and tried to blow them out with 145PSI and nothing. I've got them soaking in an acetone bath now.

Question: you said you gutted them - did you just drill them out? How did you know what size to go with, or did you just size it based on the inlet/outlet size so they just free flow?

I figure I'll end up doing the same thing, now that I have access to all the lines and fittings. PITA but I'm glad I did it, there were lots of mating gears inside the saddle that weren't getting oil, mostly power feed stuff. So if I had gone the lazy route and just oiled the screws and ways manually, I'd have had a major problem sooner or later.

There are slightly different styles. Usually I need to destroy one to figure it out, then the others go much better. At worst I buy a replacement for the destroyed one, and gut it as well.

Besides being clogged, my argument is the metering valves are the greatest source of machine damage. If you look at all in the tree. If they are supposed to pop off at 10psi, now if one or two always pop off at 5 psi. . .All the others will never open ! Your pump would have to maintain x amount of volume plus lets say, 20 to 30 psi for those fitting to have a chance at working. Because as each fitting pops off, the entire tree losses a little pressure.

One style, but I have not seen removable ends on both sides myself. It seems like I only encounter fitting that one side removes. But here is a pic of a 2 sided:

215.jpg

Most I see have only one side that removes. In this pic, the black section on bottom of fitting pulls off, It is something of a minor press fit:

221.jpg

A closer look:

254.jpg

In this case I first locked the black end in a vice, then use a wrench on fitting to work it back and forth, eventually to pull main fitting off it:

255.jpg

Fitting just pulled off:

256.jpg
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
You may see what looks like a strainer plate. Or you may encounter felt material. I dig the felt material out, sometimes using a drill bit on a drill. You also need to punch through that plate. at some point a spring will come out.

257.jpg 258.jpg

The actual valve looks like a needle pin. I might sacrifice a drill bit to use as a punch to get the pin knocked through. You'll have pieces like this:

260.jpg

In the end you'll be able to see through the fitting. That fitting plus all the spaghetti lines are narrow in diameter. So work as natural restrictor fittings anyway.

262.jpg

The only really issue I have encountered, is you may need to add a shut off valve to the lowest area in your tree. Example, on a Bridgeport mill, the lowest point are fittings for the column ways. With all pop fittings gutted, over the next day or so, oil from high areas in the tree will look to equalize with low areas, so drain toward low area. A small shut off valve addresses that. In the pic the red is the low area, while the yellow circle is higher area of the tree:

134.jpg

Gutting the first fitting may take me an hour or more till I figure it out. After that, maybe 10 minutes or so per fitting.
 

Dan from Oakland

Titanium
Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Location
Oakland, CA
It might be a little painfull, but purchase new metering valves from Lube USA- much less expensive than Bijur. Trying to clean or rebuild clogged valves is false economy. There will be a number stamped on each valve that indicates flow rate- replace with the same # valve.
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
It might be a little painfull, but purchase new metering valves from Lube USA- much less expensive than Bijur. Trying to clean or rebuild clogged valves is false economy. There will be a number stamped on each valve that indicates flow rate- replace with the same # valve.

And I'd say if you were going to replace them, replace all in the tree, not just a few.

But you'll also need to get the lines and passages cleaned out. If the machine sat for a while. Or if some of the valves were not working, most likely some or many of the lines and passages will be plugged up now. Besides blowing air through them, might need a small wire or something to start fishing up the holes to start clearing the blockages.
 

Dope

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
You may see what looks like a strainer plate. Or you may encounter felt material. I dig the felt material out, sometimes using a drill bit on a drill. You also need to punch through that plate. at some point a spring will come out.

View attachment 328781 View attachment 328782

The actual valve looks like a needle pin. I might sacrifice a drill bit to use as a punch to get the pin knocked through. You'll have pieces like this:

View attachment 328783

In the end you'll be able to see through the fitting. That fitting plus all the spaghetti lines are narrow in diameter. So work as natural restrictor fittings anyway.

View attachment 328784

The only really issue I have encountered, is you may need to add a shut off valve to the lowest area in your tree. Example, on a Bridgeport mill, the lowest point are fittings for the column ways. With all pop fittings gutted, over the next day or so, oil from high areas in the tree will look to equalize with low areas, so drain toward low area. A small shut off valve addresses that. In the pic the red is the low area, while the yellow circle is higher area of the tree:

View attachment 328785

Gutting the first fitting may take me an hour or more till I figure it out. After that, maybe 10 minutes or so per fitting.

Many, many MANY thanks for this! I did a slightly modified version of your plan and gutted them all. It went pretty easily, thank you for the explanation.

It might be a little painfull, but purchase new metering valves from Lube USA- much less expensive than Bijur. Trying to clean or rebuild clogged valves is false economy. There will be a number stamped on each valve that indicates flow rate- replace with the same # valve.

You have a fair point, but I am already way over-budget on this so I figured it was worth a try. It took me maybe 2 hours to remove, gut and reinstall all the fittings. Maybe 2 hours to take off the table. So if I have to redo it with new fittings it won't really be a huge issue. I'm sure I could do it way faster now, especially since I had some really stuck taper pins in getting the table off.

Other than that, some updates. I've gotten the lines all cleared out - I ended up heating them with a small propane torch and then shooting compresed air through them, that really did the trick. Some of them flowed okay, some barely flowed, and some were completely solid on the inside. The heat and air shot everything through and now they all work well enough. I took advantage and cleaned up all the sliding surfaces, gib, lead screw, etc. The table articulates nice and smoothly now, which is a nice bonus.

Furthermore, I drained and flushed the column and knee. Modified the drawbar slightly to give a little more length for CAT50 tooling, adjusted the gibs and power feed stops and stuff like that. Threw my giant piles of tools on the ground and loaded up a vise and some scrap A36 steel and gave her a test run. She ran great! Cuts very smoothly and quietly. I was getting tired but ended up at 2.5" WOC, .150 DOC at 262RPM and 2.75 IPM with a crappy 3" chinese facemill and inserts. A little vibration in the table when entering the cut but otherwise smooth as can be. I may tighten up the gibs a little more and keep pushing it. I have no idea what this machine is capable of so I'm just going to keep upping everything until she blows up, then back off a hair :D

Here's a quick little video of that last cut that I mentioned.


https://youtu.be/FORWPDfPZJo
 








 
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