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Not This Again! Should I / Shouldn't I Buy This HLV-H....

IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
Hi Folks,

Here we go again: I'm looking to crowd source some opinions on whether or not this HLV-H is worth the investment. Right off the bat I'll say the gentlemen selling it is asking for $5,000, and is likely not going to budge on that number. Right now I am the only one he has informed that he is selling it, although this will change in less than a week, and it will behoove me to make a decision before then. I've seen the unit in person, however since I've never worked with a HLV-H before, I can't say whether or not everything checks out. The unit is NOT under power currently, but can likely be wired up before I make a final decision. The gentlemen who is selling it appears to be a very straight shooter, and has sold ~15 of these over the years, and he seems to think that this is an excellent specimen, regardless of the current condition. The unit has been in storage for about $5 years, and before that it was in a national lab. There was a DRO scale on the longitudinal, however he said that it was crushed when he got it and it was removed. This tells me that novices have perhaps been abusing this machine. Also, I've been told that the serial number for this unit indicates that it was manufactured in the late 70's.

I am not afraid of getting my hands dirty, but I know when not to wade in (e.g., I've heard repeatedly that the spindle bearings should NOT be evaluated/pulled). I will not paint this unit, I would look to do a functional restoration. I feel comfortable pulling the quick-change assembly, apron/carriage and restoring, for instance.

To be clear: my question is less about whether $5,000 is reasonable for this machine, and more about whether this machine is worth investing in. I've always dreamed of having a HLV-H, and while I am definitely a beginner lathe operator (have a South Bend 9a currently), I am an ardent believer that you should invest in the tools you want now rather than waiting. If I buy this unit, I'll keep it, perhaps for decades. I also understand that parts can be hard to come by, but I have patience and can camp out on eBay until something comes up. I'm very concerned that if there's anything major that needs to be done (e.g., new spindle bearings, new motor, spindle reground, tailstock misaligned, etc), it may launch this into an unaffordable project. I also don't have the slightest idea what's missing, in the case that there is something missing.

I can go back and re-evaluate the unit with advice gathered here. Below are my initial notes, but PLEASE feel free to provide any further information if you would like.

Notes:
-In general, everything that I could adjust had good movement. I don't think any of the shafts/lead screws are bent, and it doesn't look look like the unit has ever been dropped on its side.
-This is a 220/3Ph version, and I plan on using a VFD for it.
-The half-nut lever is jammed -- probably crud is interfering with the mechanism, but it's hard to tell for sure. Not sure if this is a big deal.
-The coolant pump is not currently connected (looks like the line wore away, see photo). Not sure how big of a deal this is.
-The carriage cross feed/compound does not have any evidence of hand-scraping, so I assume it's worn. However, both appear to be very smooth across the entire travel, which leads me to believe that it's in pretty good shape. Not sure if this is the best test.
-The collet closer "collar" is plastic and has a crack in it (see pic) -- not sure if this is a deal-breaker, or whether it's possible to get a replacement for a reasonable cost.
-The carriage movement on the bed appears to be very smooth, and I can't notice any discernible wear.
-The tailstock appears to be very smooth (bed and also insertion).
-There are no collet rotisseries -- I've never seen any of these on eBay, and I imagine they would go for a king's ransom. I do not have a mill large enough to make these myself, either. I have A LOT of 5C collets though, and would want these eventually.
-The spindle looks to be in good shape, as does the taper (no nicks, score marks, etc), however right now it doesn't turn (presumably because of crud/pulleys etc). When I go back I will make sure I can make it turn to ensure the bearings don't need to be replaced, which would be a dealbreaker. Should I bother trying the runout/any other test?
-The motor is off-kilt, but he says that there is a mechanism in order to true the motor with respect to the pulley train. Is this straightforward? Anything I should be weary of?
-I could only observe the half-nuts from the outside of the carriage (see pic), and I guess they look OK, but it's hard to tell. I assume it will cost a fortune to get these replaced.
-The plastic dovetail wipers for the bed look to need replacing (as well as felts, if that's indeed what's under there). I assume this is straightforward.
 

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IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
The purpose of this post is to post additional pictures:
 

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IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
The purpose of this post is to post 5x more photos:
 

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IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
5x more pictures -- Oh My!
 

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IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
5x more.. getting close!
 

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IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
Here we are at the end!
 

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car2

Stainless
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Location
Apex, NC
Hi Folks,

Here we go again: I'm looking to crowd source some opinions on whether or not this HLV-H is worth the investment. Right off the bat I'll say the gentlemen selling it is asking for $5,000, and is likely not going to budge on that number. Right now I am the only one he has informed that he is selling it, although this will change in less than a week, and it will behoove me to make a decision before then. I've seen the unit in person, however since I've never worked with a HLV-H before, I can't say whether or not everything checks out. The unit is NOT under power currently, but can likely be wired up before I make a final decision. The gentlemen who is selling it appears to be a very straight shooter, and has sold ~15 of these over the years, and he seems to think that this is an excellent specimen, regardless of the current condition. The unit has been in storage for about $5 years, and before that it was in a national lab. There was a DRO scale on the longitudinal, however he said that it was crushed when he got it and it was removed. This tells me that novices have perhaps been abusing this machine. Also, I've been told that the serial number for this unit indicates that it was manufactured in the late 70's.

I am not afraid of getting my hands dirty, but I know when not to wade in (e.g., I've heard repeatedly that the spindle bearings should NOT be evaluated/pulled). I will not paint this unit, I would look to do a functional restoration. I feel comfortable pulling the quick-change assembly, apron/carriage and restoring, for instance.

To be clear: my question is less about whether $5,000 is reasonable for this machine, and more about whether this machine is worth investing in. I've always dreamed of having a HLV-H, and while I am definitely a beginner lathe operator (have a South Bend 9a currently), I am an ardent believer that you should invest in the tools you want now rather than waiting. If I buy this unit, I'll keep it, perhaps for decades. I also understand that parts can be hard to come by, but I have patience and can camp out on eBay until something comes up. I'm very concerned that if there's anything major that needs to be done (e.g., new spindle bearings, new motor, spindle reground, tailstock misaligned, etc), it may launch this into an unaffordable project. I also don't have the slightest idea what's missing, in the case that there is something missing.

I can go back and re-evaluate the unit with advice gathered here. Below are my initial notes, but PLEASE feel free to provide any further information if you would like.

Notes:
-In general, everything that I could adjust had good movement. I don't think any of the shafts/lead screws are bent, and it doesn't look look like the unit has ever been dropped on its side.
-This is a 220/3Ph version, and I plan on using a VFD for it.

-The half-nut lever is jammed -- probably crud is interfering with the mechanism, but it's hard to tell for sure. Not sure if this is a big deal.
-The coolant pump is not currently connected (looks like the line wore away, see photo). Not sure how big of a deal this is.
-The carriage cross feed/compound does not have any evidence of hand-scraping, so I assume it's worn. However, both appear to be very smooth across the entire travel, which leads me to believe that it's in pretty good shape. Not sure if this is the best test.
-The collet closer "collar" is plastic and has a crack in it (see pic) -- not sure if this is a deal-breaker, or whether it's possible to get a replacement for a reasonable cost.
-The carriage movement on the bed appears to be very smooth, and I can't notice any discernible wear.
-The tailstock appears to be very smooth (bed and also insertion).
-There are no collet rotisseries -- I've never seen any of these on eBay, and I imagine they would go for a king's ransom. I do not have a mill large enough to make these myself, either. I have A LOT of 5C collets though, and would want these eventually.
-The spindle looks to be in good shape, as does the taper (no nicks, score marks, etc), however right now it doesn't turn (presumably because of crud/pulleys etc). When I go back I will make sure I can make it turn to ensure the bearings don't need to be replaced, which would be a dealbreaker. Should I bother trying the runout/any other test?
-The motor is off-kilt, but he says that there is a mechanism in order to true the motor with respect to the pulley train. Is this straightforward? Anything I should be weary of?
-I could only observe the half-nuts from the outside of the carriage (see pic), and I guess they look OK, but it's hard to tell. I assume it will cost a fortune to get these replaced.
-The plastic dovetail wipers for the bed look to need replacing (as well as felts, if that's indeed what's under there). I assume this is straightforward.

Notes:
-In general, everything that I could adjust had good movement. I don't think any of the shafts/lead screws are bent, and it doesn't look look like the unit has ever been dropped on its side.
>appears in good, usable, undamaged condition from the pictures
-This is a 220/3Ph version, and I plan on using a VFD for it.
>doesn't appear to been tampered with on the electricals, but take a look in the box (maybe post a picture). However, you will need a small rotary-phase converter, a VFD will have issues running the three, 3-phase motors (spindle, speed adjust, and coolant pump); a VFD will not work with the OEM controls, a rotary converter is plug-and-play if the machine hasn't been altered (discussed at length here, you may search).
-The half-nut lever is jammed -- probably crud is interfering with the mechanism, but it's hard to tell for sure. Not sure if this is a big deal.
>**Note that the half-nuts will not engage when the carriage feed lever is engaged (bottom left flip lever/clutch up); this prevents turning on carriage feed motor, and leadscrew at the same time. Obviously, you have to tweak the carriage position a bit such that the half-nuts are meshing. Otherwise, don't know why they would be jammed, other than a bunch of crud or something (maybe squirt some mineral-spirits down in there if so) in the mechanism has been tightened (it's a simple cam and slide, I think there is also a gib/adjustment on the slide)
-The coolant pump is not currently connected (looks like the line wore away, see photo). Not sure how big of a deal this is.
>The coolant pump isn't really needed for low-volume work (never used the one on mine), brushes and squirt bottles are adequate. That does not appear to have been used with water-based lubricants (a killer on HLVHs). No big deal.
-The carriage cross feed/compound does not have any evidence of hand-scraping, so I assume it's worn. However, both appear to be very smooth across the entire travel, which leads me to believe that it's in pretty good shape. Not sure if this is the best test.
The cross-feed on HLVH's have a laminated ground steel shim about 1/8" thick on the bottom cross-slide (that's one thing that can delaiminate when water-based coolants are used); so the upper dovetails on the cross-slide would be scraped. The compound-slide is hand-scraped, but not uncommon for this to be worn a bit (and not too difficult to repair if needed). I'd just check for excessive wear on the cross-slide, and that the toolpost surface a t-slots are not all mangled (that looks pretty good in the pictures).

-The collet closer "collar" is plastic and has a crack in it (see pic) -- not sure if this is a deal-breaker, or whether it's possible to get a replacement for a reasonable cost.
>That's just a handwheel; might be able to be repaired with epoxy, or you could make one, find one on ebay or maybe Hardinge has one--no big deal.
-The carriage movement on the bed appears to be very smooth, and I can't notice any discernible wear.
>(the carriage has teflon laminated to the bottom; if you get it, make sure the lube pump is working (lubricates the cross-slide, and bed), and maybe pull off the carriage at some point and clean the teflon). The lube meters and such can be replaced/repaired. If you can see the original grinding marks on the bed, generally there is little wear. You can also run your finger on the dovetail near where it meets the flat surface, to see if there's a "notch" where the gib has worn the dovetail.
-The tailstock appears to be very smooth (bed and also insertion).
-There are no collet rotisseries -- I've never seen any of these on eBay, and I imagine they would go for a king's ransom. I do not have a mill large enough to make these myself, either. I have A LOT of 5C collets though, and would want these eventually.
>Guess someone repurposed the collet-holders and collets...no big deal
-The spindle looks to be in good shape, as does the taper (no nicks, score marks, etc), however right now it doesn't turn (presumably because of crud/pulleys etc). When I go back I will make sure I can make it turn to ensure the bearings don't need to be replaced, which would be a dealbreaker. Should I bother trying the runout/any other test?
>That spindle nose looks pretty good from the pictures. Note that in normal operation, no power, the spindle solenoid "lock" (really a friction-pad, spring-loaded against a drum when the solenoid is not energized ("off")), is in operation, so the spindle is rather difficult to turn with the lock on. The pin spindle lock on the headstock may also be pushed in (note machine will not start when this lock is pushed in). The spindle will not turn easily with the belts and such attached, even if the brake is off.
-The motor is off-kilt, but he says that there is a mechanism in order to true the motor with respect to the pulley train. Is this straightforward? Anything I should be weary of?
>Don't know what that means, why did that come up. It's a pretty simple systmem, motor, variable-speed pulleys, and motor/screw to move it up and down...Some more info/pictures of the inside cabinet would be helpful. I would make sure the speed adjustment mechanism and original spindle motor haven't been tampered with, or better yet, power it up to make sure they work.
-I could only observe the half-nuts from the outside of the carriage (see pic), and I guess they look OK, but it's hard to tell. I assume it will cost a fortune to get these replaced.
>I'd guess that if the rest of the machine turns out to be good, that the half-nuts are OK.

-The plastic dovetail wipers for the bed look to need replacing (as well as felts, if that's indeed what's under there). I assume this is straightforward.
>very common, no felts are used, just those molded rubber wipers; they're available from Hardinge and other sources.


Generally, that machine looks good from the pictures, original paint (looks like it), all the parts are there, no signs of obvious abuse/overuse,damage, etc. And if it came from a prototype shop in a large company, not worn out. Might be a very good deal at $5K. Borrowing checking out the above and some additional questions, definitely worth looking at further.

Of course it would be good to power it up and check the spindle, carriage feed motor (clean off the bed and squirt some oil on things), carriage and cross-feed clutches, leadscrew, But specifically to your points above, I'd check out what the deal is with the spindle-drive motor/undercarriage (maybe some pictures), spindle difficult to turn, and half-nuts "jammed". Maybe you can check out a couple of additional things per the above also. Feel free to report back, or send a PM..
 

car2

Stainless
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Location
Apex, NC
Looked thru the rest of your pictures, that lathe looks really good, undamaged, low-use (very important), everything there, and in good condition. It'd be great if you could plug it in, but looks very low risk. Looks like a very good deal at 5K from the photos. Clean it up, lube it, and plug into a rotary converter, and you're probably good to go--agree with ADH:)
 

TheOldCar

Stainless
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Location
Utah, USA
No help here, except to say:

I HATE mayonnaise also.

And miracle whip.

I would rather eat ground up fingernails that that nasty stuff.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Airstrip One, Oceania
Hi Folks,

Here we go again: I'm looking to crowd source some opinions on whether or not this HLV-H is worth the investment.
Machines are not an investment. They are worth what they can do for you. They do not increase in value. They are not old cars. They cost a lot to move and maintain. If it's a hobby, fine, but don't think of it as something of value which you can resell for more or even the same. They are not. You will lose money on it. Be happy with that or don't do it.

OldCar - Miracle whip and its degenerate cousin, Kewpie mayonnaise, are actually good for making cole slaw. No idea why but somehow it works. Try it.
 

rons

Diamond
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Location
California, USA
No help here, except to say:

I HATE mayonnaise also.

And miracle whip.

I would rather eat ground up fingernails that that nasty stuff.

I started to not use Mayo when I had a summer job at a instrument control company. One of the customers was Best Foods in Hayward,
I went out with one of the field guys and climbed up to the top of a two story hopper full of the stuff. Had to adjust a set point in a control box.
When you see how the stuff is made and then sold in nice clean looking jars, you might think of a name such as "gruel".
 

IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
car2,

Thank you for the detailed response! I'll check on the things you mentioned when I venture back there! Some reply comments below:

-In general, everything that I could adjust had good movement. I don't think any of the shafts/lead screws are bent, and it doesn't look look like the unit has ever been dropped on its side.
>appears in good, usable, undamaged condition from the pictures
-This is a 220/3Ph version, and I plan on using a VFD for it.
>doesn't appear to been tampered with on the electricals, but take a look in the box (maybe post a picture). However, you will need a small rotary-phase converter, a VFD will have issues running the three, 3-phase motors (spindle, speed adjust, and coolant pump); a VFD will not work with the OEM controls, a rotary converter is plug-and-play if the machine hasn't been altered (discussed at length here, you may search).
-->This is good to know. I'll start looking into the appropriate one, hopefully it won't take up much space because I'm extremely limited.
-The half-nut lever is jammed -- probably crud is interfering with the mechanism, but it's hard to tell for sure. Not sure if this is a big deal.
>**Note that the half-nuts will not engage when the carriage feed lever is engaged (bottom left flip lever/clutch up); this prevents turning on carriage feed motor, and leadscrew at the same time. Obviously, you have to tweak the carriage position a bit such that the half-nuts are meshing. Otherwise, don't know why they would be jammed, other than a bunch of crud or something (maybe squirt some mineral-spirits down in there if so) in the mechanism has been tightened (it's a simple cam and slide, I think there is also a gib/adjustment on the slide)
-->You're probably right, I don't know why I didn't think of this!
-The coolant pump is not currently connected (looks like the line wore away, see photo). Not sure how big of a deal this is.
>The coolant pump isn't really needed for low-volume work (never used the one on mine), brushes and squirt bottles are adequate. That does not appear to have been used with water-based lubricants (a killer on HLVHs). No big deal.
-->Great! Hopefully my Gerstner stack will fit in this spot.
-The carriage cross feed/compound does not have any evidence of hand-scraping, so I assume it's worn. However, both appear to be very smooth across the entire travel, which leads me to believe that it's in pretty good shape. Not sure if this is the best test.
The cross-feed on HLVH's have a laminated ground steel shim about 1/8" thick on the bottom cross-slide (that's one thing that can delaiminate when water-based coolants are used); so the upper dovetails on the cross-slide would be scraped. The compound-slide is hand-scraped, but not uncommon for this to be worn a bit (and not too difficult to repair if needed). I'd just check for excessive wear on the cross-slide, and that the toolpost surface a t-slots are not all mangled (that looks pretty good in the pictures).

-The collet closer "collar" is plastic and has a crack in it (see pic) -- not sure if this is a deal-breaker, or whether it's possible to get a replacement for a reasonable cost.
>That's just a handwheel; might be able to be repaired with epoxy, or you could make one, find one on eBay or maybe Hardinge has one--no big deal.
-->Hardinge sells them for a King's ransom -- I'll hope it can be repaired!
-The carriage movement on the bed appears to be very smooth, and I can't notice any discernible wear.
>(the carriage has teflon laminated to the bottom; if you get it, make sure the lube pump is working (lubricates the cross-slide, and bed), and maybe pull off the carriage at some point and clean the teflon). The lube meters and such can be replaced/repaired. If you can see the original grinding marks on the bed, generally there is little wear. You can also run your finger on the dovetail near where it meets the flat surface, to see if there's a "notch" where the gib has worn the dovetail.
-->Good thinking -- I'll check that when I circle back!
-The tailstock appears to be very smooth (bed and also insertion).
-There are no collet rotisseries -- I've never seen any of these on eBay, and I imagine they would go for a king's ransom. I do not have a mill large enough to make these myself, either. I have A LOT of 5C collets though, and would want these eventually.
>Guess someone repurposed the collet-holders and collets...no big deal
-->I *may* and have jumped the gun on this one -- someone was selling a pair of these on eBay yesterday, and I snagged them! Something like $180 each for 2x.
-The spindle looks to be in good shape, as does the taper (no nicks, score marks, etc), however right now it doesn't turn (presumably because of crud/pulleys etc). When I go back I will make sure I can make it turn to ensure the bearings don't need to be replaced, which would be a dealbreaker. Should I bother trying the runout/any other test?
>That spindle nose looks pretty good from the pictures. Note that in normal operation, no power, the spindle solenoid "lock" (really a friction-pad, spring-loaded against a drum when the solenoid is not energized ("off")), is in operation, so the spindle is rather difficult to turn with the lock on. The pin spindle lock on the headstock may also be pushed in (note machine will not start when this lock is pushed in). The spindle will not turn easily with the belts and such attached, even if the brake is off.
-->This is good to know. Any thoughts on how to get the discoloration removed from the spindle taper? I'd rather do nothing to it than risk removing too much material in cleaning, obviously. I would be nervous about using any type of scotch-brite, which may remove tenths or millionths.
-The motor is off-kilt, but he says that there is a mechanism in order to true the motor with respect to the pulley train. Is this straightforward? Anything I should be weary of?
>Don't know what that means, why did that come up. It's a pretty simple system, motor, variable-speed pulleys, and motor/screw to move it up and down...Some more info/pictures of the inside cabinet would be helpful. I would make sure the speed adjustment mechanism and original spindle motor haven't been tampered with, or better yet, power it up to make sure they work.
-->For whatever reason, the motor was tilted. From my recollection, there was a tilt mechanism built into the motor platform (I didn't actually see said mechanism, since the back wasn't removed it was hard to see). The seller indicated that he didn't know why this was the case/needed to be adjusted, other than that there is a mechanism to correct it, and it hadn't been applied yet.
-I could only observe the half-nuts from the outside of the carriage (see pic), and I guess they look OK, but it's hard to tell. I assume it will cost a fortune to get these replaced.
>I'd guess that if the rest of the machine turns out to be good, that the half-nuts are OK.

-The plastic dovetail wipers for the bed look to need replacing (as well as felts, if that's indeed what's under there). I assume this is straightforward.
>very common, no felts are used, just those molded rubber wipers; they're available from Hardinge and other sources.


Generally, that machine looks good from the pictures, original paint (looks like it), all the parts are there, no signs of obvious abuse/overuse,damage, etc. And if it came from a prototype shop in a large company, not worn out. Might be a very good deal at $5K. Borrowing checking out the above and some additional questions, definitely worth looking at further.

Of course it would be good to power it up and check the spindle, carriage feed motor (clean off the bed and squirt some oil on things), carriage and cross-feed clutches, leadscrew, But specifically to your points above, I'd check out what the deal is with the spindle-drive motor/undercarriage (maybe some pictures), spindle difficult to turn, and half-nuts "jammed". Maybe you can check out a couple of additional things per the above also. Feel free to report back, or send a PM..
 

johnwestfall

Plastic
Joined
Sep 12, 2021
Location
Michigan USA
It’s a no from me.

Pics 5&6 show the carriage lock is missing. That has some internals that can be very expensive to replace.

The unit looks also like it was sitting outside to me at one point.

I suggest anyone to download the parts manuals and lookup the replacement cost of parts for theses machines. See my post about the $397 gib screw. Literally one screw (the long gib) for an hlv-h cost $397.
ed4ed8f73b261d579c518f9b5d9c6091.jpg

2ec7451bb66f6f07c0211fc0cc801747.jpg
 

IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
No help here, except to say:

I HATE mayonnaise also.

And miracle whip.

I would rather eat ground up fingernails that that nasty stuff.

Good man! Glad to see I have an ally here ;)


Machines are not an investment. They are worth what they can do for you. They do not increase in value. They are not old cars. They cost a lot to move and maintain. If it's a hobby, fine, but don't think of it as something of value which you can resell for more or even the same. They are not. You will lose money on it. Be happy with that or don't do it.

OldCar - Miracle whip and its degenerate cousin, Kewpie mayonnaise, are actually good for making cole slaw. No idea why but somehow it works. Try it.


I will partially disagree with you here. I'm an engineer by trade, and machining is a hobby for me. I've got every tool I'll ever use and more, and every bit of it has been "zeroed out," in that the sum investment of all my tools/machines nets to <$0. This is mostly because I'm patient, but also because I tend to buy things in lots and re-sell what I don't need on eBay. Having said this, it isn't a dealbreaker that this lathe (or any machinery) may no result in a return greater to or equal than that of the initial investment. HOWEVER, it is important to me that the thing doesn't turn out to be a "boat anchor," in that there are things that are so expensive to fix, that there is no hope in me reasonably addressing the fundamental issues. Like I said, this is a hobby for me, and there will be no return on the investment (other than the pride I covet in making things).

Also -- Cole slaw sauce and ranch dressing are basically the same thing as Mayonnaise, even if it's not called Mayonnaise...

I started to not use Mayo when I had a summer job at a instrument control company. One of the customers was Best Foods in Hayward,
I went out with one of the field guys and climbed up to the top of a two story hopper full of the stuff. Had to adjust a set point in a control box.
When you see how the stuff is made and then sold in nice clean looking jars, you might think of a name such as "gruel".

Had a similar experience working in a restaurant, which is really what "sealed the deal" for me as it were. Stirring 5-gallon jugs of mayonnaise is, to put it mildly, traumatizing.
 

IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
It’s a no from me.

Pics 5&6 show the carriage lock is missing. That has some internals that can be very expensive to replace.

The unit looks also like it was sitting outside to me at one point.

I suggest anyone to download to parts manuals and lookup the replacement cost of parts for theses machines. See my post about the $397 gib screw. Literally one screw (the long gib) for an hlv-h cost $397.

You're not kidding! Here's the complete breakdown from the parts list (clickable links)

Carriage.jpg

61: TL 0006126 - $9.00
62: TL 0006158 - $525.00 (out of stock)
63: LH 0002302 - $158.00
64: LHA0006684 - $71.00
65: LHA000668401 - $105.00
36: HL 0009796 - $108.00
37: HLB0006683 - $221.00 (out of stock)

Some of the items are, quite frankly, preposterous (as you pointed out). What a silly business model! The most expensive thing on here is one of the easiest to manufacture (62, threaded handle/shaft). The good news is that much of this can be purchased from McMaster, or made with minimal effort. I would want to purchase the eccentric (37: $221, out of stock), and the gib carriage lock, as well as the eccentric collar shaft $108. This shopping list doesn't seem too bad, although the price gouging makes me feel... offended, quite frankly.

EDIT: Looks like there's an ebay item which will lessen the cost of some of the parts, although I would have to check to verify that the components are appropriate: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hardinge-H...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


Followed up with the seller - the unit was stored outside, I'm told with several tarps carefully packed around it and on a concrete pad. Good catch! This is in Albuquerque, and the relative humidity hovers around 15% for the entire year. Hopefully there are no critter nests throughout, but I sure didn't see any evidence of any.
 

car2

Stainless
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Location
Apex, NC
That was a good eye by John on the carriage-lock; its just an eccentric shaft that bears on a cylindrical plunger with angled end (this can also get bound and drag on the carriage, and someone might have removed the lock for that reason and not put it back, it just pulls out); I squirt some mineral spirits in it to keep that plunger free. (THe lock isn't needed often, the carriage is heavy, cept for heavy facing, and it doesn't rigidly lock the carriage (I suppose designed that way to keep from damaging if locked when the leadscrew or carriage feed is engaged).

The pictures look like mostly grime, and any rust mostly superficial (you can asses that better); the low humidity saved it from condensation rust. IMO that machine still looks like pretty low use and not abused and not altered (original paint pretty good, and all the badges are original and not worn off--a sign of low use, cabinets are clean, t-slots not all mangled, no huge dings and dents in the carriage or bed, etc.). I looked over the pictures again and cannot see anything else missing. You may look closer, on things like gib screws and such. The collet closer looks a little banged up, but those get thrown around; you may want to check the threaded end with a collet.

If no major parts missing/not-working, if it has low-miles, that's the MOST important attribute and relatively rareto find at anything approaching that price. If you could hook it up, test the spindle, carriage and speed control that would be the kicker to make sure nothing major/not-obvious is wrong.

Still don't know what the motor issue described is; it's bolted to a big plate with a screw that tilts the plate. The motor has the main drive belt pulley, and the drum for the cork brake.

For polymerized oil grim, I use IPA or ethyl alchohol, or hand-sanitizer; a razor blade and steel wool can be used on the spindle (it's very hard).

I think Hardinge now only makes certain parts in small batches, so they are very expensive--as in ask yourself what you would charge, as a business, to make a ~one-off similar part. As an aside, if you ever need to replace the carriage-feed motor-control, it can be replaced with a modern standard 9vdc motor-controller inexpensively (there are threads here). Now, Hardinge only sells a complete set of motor/control/box/and gearbox for some very high price.
Disclaimer: Advice/opinions warrantied for amount paid...
 

triumph406

Titanium
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Location
ca
The first thing I do when looking at an HLV is check bed wear. especially at the Headstock end. Also check for wear on the nearside dovetail. They seem to wear before the backside dovetail. That would indicate if the owner/user regularly operated the lube pump.
 

jz79

Stainless
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
the only detailed pic of the dovetail shows it behind the tail stock, which is a place with least amount of wear, look for longitudinal score marks on the dovetail top surface near the headstock, if there are any, be sure to take off the saddle and clean the teflon glued to the underside of the saddle out of any FOD that would continue to scrape on the dovetail and eat it up, be gentle, that glue holding the teflon isn't the strongest one out there, at least wasn't on mine, the teflon had already started to peel off at places due to French machinists using water based coolant on it

I might be mistaken, but that dovetail surface in that pic looks like it may have been reground not long ago, and since the tail stock has no adjustments on it, it might be worth sticking an indicator in the spindle (spindle sits on the bed casting and retains its original height after the dovetail is reground, that is of course if those surfaces haven't also been lowered when/if the dovetail has been ground) and checking concentricity with the tailstock, if it is out, it can be fixed, but not very easily

these things might explain the price, which is a bit towards the low end
 








 
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