Options for making repeatable, precise bends in flat bar?

[DDoug]

Cheaper that the Italian machines (and less versatile) but probably adequate.
Or good for ideas to copy:

Horizontal Press

20 Tons of Versatility

www.clevelandsteeltool.com

 

[Ries]

Upsetting the corner gives sharp bend.

now you are talking blacksmithing. this works, sure. Adds a lot of time to the process, and is generally impractical when you are in the hundred parts a day, much less hour, category, but for 4 corners on a table, I know a lot of people who do it this way. There is a bit of a learning curve on this.

 

[Ries]

Cheaper that the Italian machines (and less versatile) but probably adequate.
Or good for ideas to copy:

Horizontal Press

20 Tons of Versatility

www.clevelandsteeltool.com

I think this may be Spanish, from one of the Basque companies.

 

[PlumbBob^2Pants]

The 26b will give you a sharper bend, but it's limited in capacity. I want to say it maxes out at either 1/8" or 3/16" thick material...I don't have my manual in front of me at the moment. That could be on the sharper end that allows you to do acute angles and get closer to the end of stock.

A couple other pieces of tooling that work really well in lighter gauge material are the yoke and the eyebolt bending dog. I use the regular and double width dogs quite a bit with long center pins to bend 1/8" x 1-1/2" flat bar on top of the frame. The dogs let you bend really close to the end of a piece of stock.

I bought the basic bender with the flat bar tooling set to start with. Buying the package does save you a few bucks to start with, and it includes a lot of things that you'll use for other setups.

Thanks for sharing that information, Graham. How intuitive is the Hossfeld to use for someone who has never bent mild steel before? Does the manual do a good job of explaining the different dies and how to use them? There sure isn't a whole lot to go by on YouTube or other sites. Is it possible to damage the machine or the dies, unknowingly?

 

[PlumbBob^2Pants]

26b will give you sharpest bend, but remember that in any bending, there is no such thing as a true 90 degree corner. All bends are radiuses, and minimum radius is usually a bit more than 50% material thickness depending on alloy. So the thicker the material, the more radius to the bend. Too tight, the mater cracks at the corners. Truly sharp bends are usually fake, sanded after bending.
hossfeld will sell dies individually.
I will try to find photos of stands. Not home now, but will be back in the states next week. Hei adjustment is necessary as different dies hold material at different heights.

Good info, Ries. That makes sense with thicker material having a larger radius in the bend. Safe travels and please do share the photos of your stand when you can. Thanks.

 

[DDoug]

I think this may be Spanish, from one of the Basque companies

Point being OP can build similar.

 

[PlumbBob^2Pants]

Point being OP can build similar.

Something to think about, for sure. I know some of these are more complex than others, but building a machine like this for simple bends shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[PlumbBob^2Pants]

The last concern I have before I decide to put in an order for a Hossfeld/American is whether or not I need hydraulics for bending flat stock. The thickest material I'll bend in this machine will be 1/4". I'm a tall and strong fella, but I don't want to be in a situation where I'm not enjoying using the machine if it's a struggle every time I have to bend 1/4" flat stock. Is 1/4" flat stock at max capacity of 4 1/2" wide difficult to bend in this type of machine without hydraulics?

Also, I'll bench mount it onto a 36" x 96" wooden bench (the bench by itself probably weighs around 175 lbs). Will bending 1/4" material move the bench around?

 

[gbent]

The 26B capacity is 4 1/2 x 1/4" cold and 4 1/2 x 1/2" hot. It has a long and a short side. The capacity of the long side is 1/8" to 5/16" and the short side is 3/8" to 1/2"

 

[Rob F.]

Thanks for sharing that information, Graham. How intuitive is the Hossfeld to use for someone who has never bent mild steel before? Does the manual do a good job of explaining the different dies and how to use them? There sure isn't a whole lot to go by on YouTube or other sites. Is it possible to damage the machine or the dies, unknowingly?

The manuals are OK if you are smart and understand how the bender works. They were written back before everyone needed their hand held to do the simplest task. Once you get the basic concept of how it works everything then becomes kind of intuitive.

 

[Rob F.]

The last concern I have before I decide to put in an order for a Hossfeld/American is whether or not I need hydraulics for bending flat stock. The thickest material I'll bend in this machine will be 1/4". I'm a tall and strong fella, but I don't want to be in a situation where I'm not enjoying using the machine if it's a struggle every time I have to bend 1/4" flat stock. Is 1/4" flat stock at max capacity of 4 1/2" wide difficult to bend in this type of machine without hydraulics?

Also, I'll bench mount it onto a 36" x 96" wooden bench (the bench by itself probably weighs around 175 lbs). Will bending 1/4" material move the bench around?

Bending your material is likely to move your table can you bolt it to the floor or screw to the wall or somehow secure it?
I dont think you will have any problem bending your 1/4 " material the easy way by hand.
Hydraulic set up is completely separate so it could easily be added later if you decide to need it. Also the hydraulic pushes against the bender itself so it does not need to be secured from twisting like hand bending does. It still needs to be bolted down so it wont tip over with long stock out one side though.

 

[DDoug]

Something to think about, for sure. I know some of these are more complex than others, but building a machine like this for simple bends shouldn't be that difficult.

Your basically building a logsplitter.
Make a machined surface to guide the ram, and machine the ram end and fixed point with a standard 1/2" keyway to use normal press brake pieces.

 

[Ries]

You absolutely need to bolt a hossfeld to the floor. Sometimes I use the extension handle,which gives me 8’ of leverage. Once, on a jobsite, I boltedmy hossfeld to the bed of the pickup. I was able to spin the truck if I yerked too hard. That was 20’ lengths of schedule 40 1 1/2” id pipe, though.

 

[Graham Gott]

Thanks for sharing that information, Graham. How intuitive is the Hossfeld to use for someone who has never bent mild steel before? Does the manual do a good job of explaining the different dies and how to use them? There sure isn't a whole lot to go by on YouTube or other sites. Is it possible to damage the machine or the dies, unknowingly?

The manual is pretty good. It has photos of the different setups and will call out the limitations. If you respect the limits in the manual and set the tooling up correctly, I don't think you can go too far wrong.

I second the need to bolt the machine to the floor to use it manually. I had mine temporarily on a welding table that weighs about 1200 lbs and it was pretty easy to move that with the stock 4' handle. I wound up going the hydraulic route to bend larger square tube than is recommended manually.

 

[PlumbBob^2Pants]

The manual is pretty good. It has photos of the different setups and will call out the limitations. If you respect the limits in the manual and set the tooling up correctly, I don't think you can go too far wrong.

I second the need to bolt the machine to the floor to use it manually. I had mine temporarily on a welding table that weighs about 1200 lbs and it was pretty easy to move that with the stock 4' handle. I wound up going the hydraulic route to bend larger square tube than is recommended manually.

I'm thinking about getting the H60 hydraulic package, but it's pretty pricey. I haven't done the exact math, but it appears they give a better deal if you buy the Hossfeld in that H60 kit, rather than upgrading to hydraulics later. If one wanted to source their own pump, hoses, and hydraulic fittings what frame attachment(s) from Hossfeld would be needed to convert the 46000 to hydraulic? The only thing I wouldn't be sure about is the stroke length of the cylinder ... If I got that wrong I'd be afraid to damage the machine or pump.

 

[Graham Gott]

I bought the bender parts and cylinder from Hossfeld and sourced my own pump, solenoid, etc. The cylinder is an odd length, so buying theirs ensures it will work properly with all of the tooling. I went with a solenoid valve and foot pedal to keep hands-free operation. The majority of the hydraulic parts came from Northern Tool and I was able to package everything so it could be self contained in the bottom drawer of my cabinet. The attached photo is before it was complete, but shows how all the plumbing, etc. is laid out.

 

[Rob F.]

I bought the bender parts and cylinder from Hossfeld and sourced my own pump, solenoid, etc. The cylinder is an odd length, so buying theirs ensures it will work properly with all of the tooling. I went with a solenoid valve and foot pedal to keep hands-free operation. The majority of the hydraulic parts came from Northern Tool and I was able to package everything so it could be self contained in the bottom drawer of my cabinet. The attached photo is before it was complete, but shows how all the plumbing, etc. is laid out.

That looks really nice!
Can you tell us what size the official hossfeld cylinder is? From what I remember, it looks about 2" dia bore and 24" length?

 

[metalmagpie]

The only thing I wouldn't be sure about is the stroke length of the cylinder.

Bore 2" stroke 15" for the stock Hossfeld setup.

 

[Pete Deal]

I just finished 12 of these today on my Hossfeld Copy(American Bender in my case). 1/8" x 3", 304 ss. I wasn't able to make the square bends on the Hossfeld. I tried it with the 22b cam but there was not clearance for the double bend but the otherwise the bend was nice. I was able to do the double bend with the yoke but the radius was larger than I wanted. I wound up bending that in a press brake jig in my Dake press. Man, would a 4' press brake be nice!

The loop is 4". I made another post about making a die to bend the radius. The die is plasma cut from some scrap metal. Not pretty but it worked great. For the die diameter I guessed at 3-1/2". With spring back the id of the loop wound up right at 4".

 

[Graham Gott]

That looks really nice!
Can you tell us what size the official hossfeld cylinder is? From what I remember, it looks about 2" dia bore and 24" length?

@metalmagpie has it. It's a 2" bore by 15" stroke. I went ahead with their cylinder because a 14" might not allow full 90 degree bends in tubing, but a 16" may not retract far enough to get material in the dies. I haven't tried either of those cases to know if it's actually an issue, though.