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ot Diesel Exhaust Fluid. shortage ? and trucking / shipping

1yesca

Stainless
Joined
Jun 1, 2004

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Do you know what DEF fluid is? It's Diesel Exhaust Fluid. Every Diesel truck that has been made since 2010 is required to use it. It's a product made of 32.5 percent urea and 67.5 percent deionized water. Every newer diesel truck you see driving down the road today has to have this product to drive (by law). DEF is sprayed into the exhaust stream by an advanced injection system and then converted into ammonia on a catalyst. The ammonia breaks down dangerous NOx emissions produced by diesel engines into nitrogen and water.. That's the purpose of DEF.

Right now, Russia is the largest exporter of Urea by a wide margin. Qatar is second. Egypt and China are Tied for 3rd. Both Russia and China have decided to no longer export Urea. On top of that, India is the largest manufacturer of Urea in the world even though they consume most of what they make. What little they would export..........they no longer do. They are now stopping the exportation of any and all Urea minus a deal they just cut with Sri Lanka.

What does this mean for you and me? Well, first, the United States imports most of it's Urea fertilizer. We are the third largest importer in the entire world. We depend on other countries to eat, drive and ship our products.

Secondly... Flying J is the largest Service provider for Truckers around the Unites States. I'm sure you've seen their massive gas stations when traveling around the country. Flying J gets 70% of their DEF fluid from shipments via Union Pacific railroad. UP has single user access to the Fertilizer plants that Urea/DEF fluid comes from. No other rail provider has access to these distribution points. This means Flying J can't just go around Union Pacific. Union Pacific is in charge....for a reason I'm gonna mention in a few paragraphs.

Flying J provides 30% of all DEF consumed in the United States. UP has told Flying J to reduce their shipments by a whopping 50%. And if they do not comply then they will be completely embargoed. That would in effect bankrupt FJ. This means that 15% of all DEF consumed by truckers in the US is no longer available at the largest travel service center for the entire trucking industry.

Rome rotted from the inside out. It was easily invaded because it was occupied with internal problems. It appears we have discovered the Trigger. DEF fluid. If this holds up, DEF shortages will be the catalyst that causes food shortages in the coming months. Not only is there a shortage of fertilizer to grow crops in drought-stricken states (See Kansas' drop in wheat production for 2022)....but....now it looks like, unless the Federal Government intervenes via the Defense Production Act, ...which I am no longer confident they will....there is gonna be an absolute massive shortage of trucking in the coming months.

There simply isn't going to be DEF fluid sufficient to keep the engines running and moving. Home Depot is now limiting the amount of DEF you can buy in their stores.

I would think long and hard about the decisions you are making right now. Where you live. What you spend money on. How you prepare. This is so real that the CEO of Flying J, Shameek Konar was summoned to a Surface Transportation Board hearing to give them all this info.

From what I'm reading....Blackrock is the majority shareholder of Union Pacific railroad. How is that important? Americas biggest fertilizer producer is CF Industries. Their largest shareholder is Blackrock. Blackrock controls the fertilizer industry in the U.S.. Union Pacific has exclusive rights to distribution points of fertilizer. Urea is fertilizer. Flying J needs Urea/DEF. Blackrock is controlling everything.

The Chairman of the BlackRock Investment Institute is Tom Donilon, President Obama’s former National Security Advisor. Tom Donilon’s brother, Mike Donilon is a Senior Advisor to Joe Biden. Tom Donilon’s wife, Catherine Russell, is the White House Personnel Director. Tom Donilon’s daughter, Sarah Donilon, who graduated college in 2019, now works on the White House National Security Council.

It appears Blackrock is spearheading the dismantling of the US system on behalf of the Globalists. And the first domino they are pushing over is the energy sector. They are using DEF to get the party started. This is one sector of the biggest downfalls in political repercussions this country has ever faced…
 

adammil1

Titanium
Joined
Mar 12, 2001
Location
New Haven, CT
Funny question could the laws be suspended to allow the trucks to run without the DEF, pollute a little more but keep goods flowing?

Of course that would be what a normal administration would do this one who knows?
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
There was shortage here last year....but IIRC the govt has paid someone to make it ,at considerably higher cost than the Chinese import urea.........its simple enough to make.
 

Scottl

Diamond
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
Eastern Massachusetts, USA
One article I found seems to indicate that the issue is urea shortages because much of it is needed for fertilizer production.


This article also mentions shortages.


Apparently right now shortages are sporadic but trucking industry sources are warning of possible severe future problems.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Location
marysville ohio
Funny question could the laws be suspended to allow the trucks to run without the DEF, pollute a little more but keep goods flowing?

Of course that would be what a normal administration would do this one who knows?
When you are out of DEF your engine shuts down in short order. Exactly one year ago today I was on the side of the road in Illinois with a Chevy Duramax van and 24' box trailer. DEF system failure limited my speed to 1 MPH. Sat there most of the day till I could get a 455.00 tow 6 miles to the local Chev dealer. Sat in a shitty hotel through Memorial day till Tuesday AM at the dealer, yup we will get right on it. Except the "diesel specialist" was a bit hung over and did not show up till 2:00. Finally got back on the road mid day Thursday, only cost about 2200.00! What a load of BS. One volcano puts more "particulate matter" in the air than 25 years of the entire diesel fleet. I hear by call for every volcano to be equipped with DEF and a catalytic converter.
 

Ries

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Location
Edison Washington USA
This is just like the panic over the Helium shortage, or the Neon shortage. DEF is made from Urea and Ionized water. The reason its all imported is because its cheaper, but its certainly not rocket science to make it here in the USA- its just nobody wants to set up a factory to do so, if, six months from now, the imported stuff starts coming in again at half your price.
Urea is made in the USA, its just not as cheap as the stuff coming from the soviet era plants in Russian and Ukraine.
If we really had a big shutdown of trucking, american chemical companies could easily make this.
It would take a while, and it would cost more.
 

Freedommachine

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 13, 2020
"Creating a safe, equitable and inclusive world for all stakeholders"

The global governance folks could literally write a book detailing their plans to rebuild the world in a new "sustainable" image by force and those who choose to doubt it would still never accept reality.

Oh, wait...


DPF is gaabage. The knowledgeable idiots write policy - american citizens create entire markets to undermine policy.


If legislators had half a mind, they would listen to the people and quit legislating asinine vulnerabilities into our lives.

Mechanical diesel engines can run on pretty much any mixture of dinosaur squeezen's / liquified vegetation as long as the flash point is similar to diesel. Fuel timing can make up for slight differences.

I've got a varied selection of cummins b series and Mercedes OM6xx sitting around for just such occasions. Liberty, resiliency and free market come first.

Saving the frogs and creating feel good social policy come second.

Too much more of this 'green at any cost' b.s. and imma start burning tires to heat my shop and transformer oil to run my truck. Hard to find cheaper fuel sources than that 😉
 
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john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
As I mentioned,the Ad Blue shortage was nine months ago.....and the resulting transport disruption was genuine .....so a remedy had to be found......although I see very few big trucks on the road,compared to say 3 years ago,but that is down to the virus.....and incidentally deaths here are rising gradually,far in excess of the lockdown era.......I do know that minor surgeries are cancelled due to the thousands of virus cases filling the hospitals,and its claimed by the Health Dept that half of their staff are off with virus on any given day.......and none of that is from fbook.
 

steve-l

Titanium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Location
Geilenkirchen, Germany
The requirement to use DEF/Ad Blue is a band aid solution to a non-existent problem. Put in place to reduce oxides of nitrogen in the exhaust stream. The problem is the automotive industry is being blamed as the major contributor to this emission and it is not. The major contributor to NO emissions is agriculture, not diesel engines. Furthermore the resultant ammonia is a huge corrosive and a far greater risk to the environment and your pocketbook than the NO.
 

camscan

Titanium
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Location
Norfolk
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gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
The requirement to use DEF/Ad Blue is a band aid solution to a non-existent problem. Put in place to reduce oxides of nitrogen in the exhaust stream. The problem is the automotive industry is being blamed as the major contributor to this emission and it is not. The major contributor to NO emissions is agriculture, not diesel engines. Furthermore the resultant ammonia is a huge corrosive and a far greater risk to the environment and your pocketbook than the NO.
I think you may overstate it

 

steve-l

Titanium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Location
Geilenkirchen, Germany
I don't think I have overstated this issue. Thank you for your URL lead. It was very interesting and pretty much reinforced my statement. It did not however address the other half of my statement. IE. the impact of corrosive ammonia resulting on the use of AD Blue. It rots your now very expensive exhaust system as well as everything it comes in contact with, including your lungs. The AD Blue system is far from fuel efficient nor is it green and if it fails, just see how much it costs to repair. This is a case where the cure is far worse than cause. You can thank our science illiterate politicians for thoroughly misunderstanding the science.
 

gbent

Diamond
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Location
Kansas
You can blame the clean air act of 1970 for the DEF/goat pi$$ debacle. The bill was written with a specific prohibition against the EPA using economic analysis when creating emissions laws.

The problem now is not so much the availability of the def, but repair parts for the def system. I have heard 3 or 4th hand that permission has been given to some large RVs for a factory delete software to allow them to run without the def system due to lack of repair parts.
 

Freedommachine

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 13, 2020
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Post deleted, was a response to trolling.
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Freedommachine

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 13, 2020
You can blame the clean air act of 1970 for the DEF/goat pi$$ debacle. The bill was written with a specific prohibition against the EPA using economic analysis when creating emissions laws.

The problem now is not so much the availability of the def, but repair parts for the def system. I have heard 3 or 4th hand that permission has been given to some large RVs for a factory delete software to allow them to run without the def system due to lack of repair parts.
My aunt has a 2021 Silverado with a duramax. The DEF tank heater quit working last winter and it literally bricked the truck, it wouldn't run.

She took it to the dealership for warranty repair and they told her the same thing, couldn't get parts. I guess they had 7 of those trucks sitting there for the same reason.

I couldn't imagine being in that situation if you actually needed the truck for work. You'd be stuck making monthly payments on a truck that cannot do the work needed to pay for itself.

I haven't heard anything about mfg's receiving permission to bypass the DEF system, that is interesting.
 

gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
I don't think I have overstated this issue. Thank you for your URL lead. It was very interesting and pretty much reinforced my statement. It did not however address the other half of my statement. IE. the impact of corrosive ammonia resulting on the use of AD Blue. It rots your now very expensive exhaust system as well as everything it comes in contact with, including your lungs. The AD Blue system is far from fuel efficient nor is it green and if it fails, just see how much it costs to repair. This is a case where the cure is far worse than cause. You can thank our science illiterate politicians for thoroughly misunderstanding the science.
I think you exaggerate the influence of agriculture, and minimize the influence of diesel emissions. From this study, they are somewhat equal, which does not support your point.
 








 
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