OT has anyone here had tooth implants?

[moonlight machine]

My teeth are a mess and I was thinking about doing the full mouth implant deal. Is this better than dentures? Is it painful to do? What does it cost?

 

[CarbideBob]

Mexico?

 

[plastikdreams]

I had 2 implants done many years ago in my 20s. It wasn't that bad of an experience really.

 

[mhajicek]

My teeth are a mess and I was thinking about doing the full mouth implant deal. Is this better than dentures? Is it painful to do? What does it cost?

Just the GPS tracker and the cyanide tooth.

 

[eKretz]

I'm waiting to see more on the stem cell tooth regrowth. Looks interesting. Not sure how long it's going to be before it's viable though.

 

[rke[pler]

I had an implant after a root canal found the tooth to be cracked around the base (that was fun, we were just about finished). There was a 7 day wait for the tooth to be extracted.a couple of month wait for the socket to heal up, a really fun trip to have a screw placed into my jaw (actually 2 screws. First one was torqued in and the odontist said "oops - too deep" so it had to come out and another installed. A post was put in place and we waited a couple of months, then my dentist made a mold and a tooth to glue to the post. All of this was about $3K 10 years ago.

So - basically a crown process with adding a screw and post in the middle. If you can get crowns you might want to go that route and only get implants for the ones you can't put a crown on.

 

[moonlight machine]

Mexico?

No chance.

 

[Stirling]

I had an implant after a root canal found the tooth to be cracked around the base (that was fun, we were just about finished). There was a 7 day wait for the tooth to be extracted.a couple of month wait for the socket to heal up, a really fun trip to have a screw placed into my jaw (actually 2 screws. First one was torqued in and the odontist said "oops - too deep" so it had to come out and another installed. A post was put in place and we waited a couple of months, then my dentist made a mold and a tooth to glue to the post. All of this was about $3K 10 years ago.

So - basically a crown process with adding a screw and post in the middle. If you can get crowns you might want to go that route and only get implants for the ones you can't put a crown on.

I’m mid process for the exact procedure. Little apprehensive.

The specialist that quoted the screw install said there should be a yearly checkup/maintenance if needed.
Something to do with the post in the boan is a fixed location, but the natural living teeth in the jaw still float around which can cause issues.

Any insight on this?

I smashed the tooth with a wrench in my 20’s and the root canal cracked and became infected 16 years later.
Lucky wcb (federal workers comp program) is going to cover it all.
I hope it does not lead me to a yearly specialist visit for too much money tho. Just getting out of some tighter financial times and reoccurring health costs are not something I want.

 

[EmGo]

I had an implant after a root canal found the tooth to be cracked ... a really fun trip to have a screw placed into my jaw (actually 2 screws. First one was torqued in and the odontist said "oops - too deep" so it had to come out and another installed. A post was put in place and we waited a couple of months, then my dentist made a mold and a tooth to glue to the post. All of this was about $3K 10 years ago.

Similar, I had two some years ago, the hammer drill was my favorite part. I wanted to cry, or die, or whatever would get me out of that chair really fast but other people have told me theirs was painless ..

I think moon is talking about the deal where they put in four pillars then attach a full set of teeth to them tho. So It's only four excavations digging on the bone for which you get a full set .... that one might be worth it. Maybe.

I'd consider it if I were, say, 50 or under. At this point I don't know but no more implants. I don't have enough life left to make it worthwhile.

So - basically a crown process with adding a screw and post in the middle. If you can get crowns you might want to go that route and only get implants for the ones you can't put a crown on.

No reputable dentist would recommend implants if they could save the living part. Crowns are easy and simple, an implant is basically tearing out the old parts, digging around in there for an hour or so while the patient cries, to get a nice clean BIG hole, filling it with cowbone plaster, pounding that in with a five pound sledge then running a tamper over it, finally sewing a flap over that while it heals for six months. Then come back, drill and tap 9/16-11 for the fastener, install with a pneumatic hammer drill on 150 psi while the patient once again cries, let that all heal up for another six then glue the ceramic tooth on top.

The last step is the only part that's tolerable.

It's actually a pretty neat deal but at least for myself, I decided let the younger people go through that. The five years old area of cowbone mooooo ! has now finally settled in to feeling like the real thing.

Probably when they bury me, the implant will be the last part left, have to give it that. Seems sturdy but ....

@Stirling - mine are several years old and you'll get me back to the dentist for a checkup when I'm dead, so it shouldn 't cost much. They seem fine.

 

[implmex]

Hi Moonlight Machine:
I was a dentist once upon a time and I did dental implants in my practice so I know the turf pretty well but I've never had one done to me.

So, in a nutshell, upper dentures without implants to support them usually work pretty well and people adapt to them OK and can use them pretty effectively unless they have an abnormally flat palate (roof of the mouth) or a bony defect (cleft palate) or a bony lump (palatine torus).

The denture is like a big rigid suction cup and is normally easy to stick in place and hold with suction alone, or with denture adhesive.
The roof of your mouth changes over time, making the suction less and less effective, but this takes decades so the dentures need to be relined every once in a while, but that's neither frequent nor expensive as dentistry procedures tend to be.

Lower dentures are shit fucking miserable by comparison.
Almost nobody can work them well, because they flop around, most people get sore spots, they can't chew worth a crap, food gets under them, people drool when they wear them...it's just an awful adaptation to try to make.

So if all the lower teeth HAVE to come out because they're unfixably rotten or there's no jawbone left to hold them in, dental implants to support and retain the dentures are a true Godsend.

The most common scheme is to install four implants, then bolt a little gold bar onto the implants and clip the lower denture to it so you can still remove the denture to keep it, and the sub structure clean.

It is also possible, if you can't afford the implant bar, to put in only two, use them as anchor points so the denture can't flop around but use the jawbone to carry the load.
This is not as comfortable to wear, but it is a gazillion miles better than no implants at all.
So you can still get sores under the denture because they still have to act like pressure pads but you don't have these damned "things" flapping around in there anymore.

The "Cadillac " treatment is to put in a whole whack of implants both on the top and bottom and bolt "Fixed Bridgework" onto them.
There are two shortcomings:
1) They cost a bloody fortune...60 grand or thereabouts when I retired from dentistry in 1998.
2) They need to be built like a house on stilts...hard to clean around each implant, hard to keep the broccoli from accumulating under the fake teeth, and awful to look at once you open your mouth and pull your lips back.

People did not love them all that much...the most grateful patients were those who had been struggling with lower dentures and got two or four implants and a set of new dentures.
2 on the bottom with attachments and a denture was about 3 grand back then and "four on the floor" with a Hader bar and a denture was about ten grand.
The people with thin "keratinized gingiva"... the tough gum tissue that covers the upper surface of the lower jaw (and the palate) liked the Hader bar dentures the best because it kept them from getting pressure sores...I had a few patients that tried the cheaper option first and then moved up to the bar supported dentures and were much happier after the second surgery even though they spent some extra money to do the conversion.

Moving on to enduring the surgery...I had very few patients that complained very much, either during the surgery or during the recovery.
The patients that preferred to be put under for the surgery were referred to my friendly local oral surgeon (I referred to a particularly nice one who was really skilled too so patients came out of it without being butchered).
As in every profession there are very good ones and sadly there are fucking hacks.
My guy was one of the very best, and my patients typically could control their postoperative discomfort with nothing more than Tylenol.
The others I did mostly myself, and they had pretty easy postoperative courses too, definitely easier than those whose wisdom teeth I took out, and those I did endodontic or periodontic surgery on.

So that's it...that's a brief description of what I know of it, having never been through it myself but having been on the other end of the tools a bunch of times.

A last thought...even if it's pretty fucked up, there's still nothing better than even the sad remnants of what Momma Nature gave you, so if your dentist proposes fixing up what you still have, jump at the chance.
Sometimes it's not possible, and sometimes it's truly a waste of money to go heroic on a wreck, but for the most part patients of mine groused at the price but could function better with teeth than with implants.
The difference is getting smaller and smaller as the technology matures and the surgeons get better at putting them in the proper spots, so dental implants have become widely adopted and relied upon.

Bear that in mind as you hear out what your friendly dentist has to say.

Cheers

Marcus
www.implant-mechanix.com
www.vancouverwireedm.com

 

[implmex]

Hi stirling:
You wrote:
Something to do with the post in the boan is a fixed location, but the natural living teeth in the jaw still float around which can cause issues.

Any insight on this?

The natural teeth you have are suspended in little trampolines called "Periodontal Ligaments" and the implants are fused to the bone.
This difference in how they work became glaringly apparent as soon as creative dentists tried to bolt a set of fake teeth (a "bridge") onto an implant in the back and a natural tooth in the front.
It didn't work for shit and a lot of dentists gave the money back to a lot of patients in the early 1990's while everyone was still figuring this out.
Faces were red, reputations were ruined, financial empires dissolved.
That's the history of it and that's the reason why.
Most dentists know better now.

Cheers

Marcus
www.implant-mechanix.com
www.vancouverwireedm.com

 

[implmex]

Hi eKretz:
I'm not up to date on the progress we've made in the domain of manipulating stem cells to grow whatever we want.
However, last I read (around 2005) researchers were still arguing about the basic signaling mechanisms used by the embryonic dental epithelium and mesenchymal cells (tooth bud) to control the timing and development from the bud to the mature tooth.
I think we're still a very long way from being able to just implant a few stem cells, wave a magic wand and grow a new molar.

That sounds real good when a scientist is applying for a research grant to a government type with money to dispense, but I don't believe it's much more than a fantasy yet.
I could be wrong though...a brief Google search didn't turn up much and most of that research interestingly it seems, is being done in China these days.
But just because it doesn't show up on Google doesn't mean it's not happening...I do know it's complicated so there is a lot to know and a lot to figure out how to control.

Biology is weird that way...it all looks pretty obvious and then the details screw up your grand plan...just look at how long cancer cures have been "just around the corner".

I will be thrilled, but I'm not holding my breath.

Cheers

Marcus
www.implant-mechanix.com
www.vancouverwireedm.com

 

[Peter Neill]

Had 3 implants and 3 separate crowns done in 2015 and couldn't be happier with it. Honestly less painful than many previous visits to my regular dentists.
I spent several months researching options and providers, and eventually had mine done in Budapest in Hungary - UK prices were prohibitive - but they also have a full London clinic too, where the Hungarian surgeons are in regular attendance, so aftercare & checkups were local to me.
Total cost for me was just under £6K UK sterling - practically a bargain.
Their current prices are shown here, no idea how that will compare with the US:

Price list

Here you find all dental treatment prices including implants and dental packages. Find out more about our offers including travel as well.

www.vitaleurope.co.uk

 

[EmGo]

Moving on to enduring the surgery...I had very few patients that complained very much, either during the surgery or during the recovery.
The patients that preferred to be put under for the surgery were referred to my friendly local oral surgeon (I referred to a particularly nice one who was really skilled too so patients came out of it without being butchered).
As in every profession there are very good ones and sadly there are fucking hacks.

To be scrupulously fair here, I think there are also differences in people. This dentist has done other work that was exceptional, and usually I can do pain fine, in fact prefer the short-time pain to taking pills that mess you up. I just put it down to too many nerves in the jaw or something. Which, to be honest, could be true of anyone and it doesn't matter how skilled the surgeon is.

 

[jim rozen]

"basic signaling mechanisms used by the embryonic dental epithelium and mesenchymal cells (tooth bud) to control the timing and development from the bud to the mature tooth."

Interesting. I knocked a tooth out of my mouth in 7th grade. Was root-canalled on the bench and re-inserted. Eventually the body recognizes this as a foreign object and re-absorbes the root, requiring an eventual 3-piece bridge. Years later the adjacent tooth (part of the bridge) became infected and had to be root canalled itself. The endodontist said that tooth had probably died within a year of the original accident.

I asked if the newly root canalled tooth would likewise be eventually re-absorbed. He replied 'probably not, as it never *been outside my body*.'

Signalling mechanisms?

 

[plastikdreams]

To be scrupulously fair here, I think there are also differences in people. This dentist has done other work that was exceptional, and usually I can do pain fine, in fact prefer the short-time pain to taking pills that mess you up. I just put it down to too many nerves in the jaw or something. Which, to be honest, could be true of anyone and it doesn't matter how skilled the surgeon is.

A lot of people here think you got a lot of nerve

 

[eKretz]

Could be that the anesthetic wasn't high enough quantity and injected in the right places too. I've had to have the dentist give me extra anesthetic shots a couple times because I could still feel quite a lot. But EG definitely has a lot of nerve...

 

[scsmith42]

I've had several implants done in my mid to late 50's and would do them again. I have an outstanding dentist though that I trust completely to do proper work.

 

[snowman]

The patients that preferred to be put under for the surgery were referred to my friendly local oral surgeon (I referred to a particularly nice one who was really skilled too so patients came out of it without being butchered).
As in every profession there are very good ones and sadly there are fucking hacks.

So how do you find out who the amazing oral surgeons are? I've had a jaw that likes to pop in and out of place now for a couple of years, depending on stress level and how much I grind my teeth at night. Meanwhile, my dentist feels the motion of my jaw and says everything feels good. The pain, inability to chew on the left side, and clicking sound suggests otherwise.

 

[implmex]

Hi snowman:
You need to see a TemporoMandibular Joint specialist.
There are things that can be done to help you...there is a little cushiony cup in each jaw joint that's suspended between a pair of ligaments in which the heads of the jawbone ride up and down a bony ramp on each side of your skull just forward of your ears.
The ligaments keep the cup positioned properly in the joint space.

When either ligament gets damaged the cup is no longer held properly in place and can get squashed right out of the joint space, resulting in clicking, jaw locking, pain and damage to the joint.
Back when I was in practice, a repositioning splint was state of the art care...it would allow the ligaments time to heal.
That standard of care may have totally changed since the early 1990's when I graduated dental school.

Get your dentist to refer you to a TMJ specialist...they exist in every major city.

Cheers

Marcus
www.implant-mechanix.com
www.vancouverwireedm.com