OT - Help me understand Hi-Fi speakers

[kustomizer]

In the finishing area of my shop I found I needed a bit more volume than the rest to cover our downdraft table, belt sanders etc so we laid one on its side and canted it down at us a bit, seems to do the trick.

 

[drcoelho]

I have for my shop this fairly massive receiver...a Denon AVR 5800 which 62lbs. worth of relatively old school radio. I didn't buy it new but they were around $3800 20 years ago.



Denon AVR-5800 A/V receiver | Sound & Vision

I want to buy some speakers that will work well with it.

In looking at speakers...it seems nowadays a great many are 'powered'. That is, they appear to have their own 120v amp and also work off Bluetooth or some other wireless technology...so you don't have to run 'hard' wires to them.


That's great...but I like wires and don't mind running them. I also think the receiver should have enough power to drive speakers without the need for an amp in the speaker box. I also wonder if the amps located in the speaker box will compromise sound quality or have other negative effects.

So....do I ignore all of the powered speakers, or is there no harm in using them if I find a set I otherwise like?View attachment 339479

Given that you have an amplifier, you should buy unpowered speakers. The amplifier you have will provide better performance than the built-in amps on powered speakers, and the speakers will be lighter/better for same price.

 

[dcsipo]

Local guy has some CV E715's...I could buy these fairly cheap.

26HZ-20kHZ
400 watts peak
sensitivity 102dB

I read some reviews that say their great, and also a few from higher-end guys who say they're a bit harsh on the ears

Are you in a metal building? Drywall? Foam insulation with paint? The best thing you can do is walk around clap sing make noises listen to the echoes and reverberations. High-end guys are full of shit, they all tailor the acoustic environments where they put the speakers in their listening rooms and play with it till they like the sound. Trust me on this one I have speakers that are not easy to place in a room. If your space is non-reverberant you can get away with speakers tilted towards the high frequencies. If you have a metal box try something more polite sounding because your environment will make anything harsh-sounding. You may go listen to Cervins at some dude's house and will hate them when you put them in your shop. The good thing about the Dennon you got is that it can compensate for a lot of things...There is the RTFM factor that may save you.

 

[dcsipo]

Given that you have an amplifier, you should buy unpowered speakers.

Yes

The amplifier you have will provide better performance than the built-in amps on powered speakers\

Maybe maybe not. Take something like a KEF LS50 and the answer is not really, you would need to fight real hard to make those cones sound better than the purpose-built amp in the speaker. All is a price point and performance balance.

and the speakers will be lighter/better for same price.

Lighter is not always better. The Wilson Puppies are tiny and weigh a ton. Wilson Audio - WATT / Puppy Series 8 but they are paired with the Watts for bass. I would avoid light speakers, they have a bunch of issues . The same price...again it is a murky thing.


BAck to the original issue. Do not buy speakers you have not heard in a similar environment and setup

 

[tnmgcarbide]

i'd bet it sounds just fine. PA speakers are perfect for a shop environment . Magneplanars
vandersteens and wilsons ,cerwin vega?

will not sound any better than Peavey , Yamaha, or Yorkville in a factory building.
PA equipment is more robust and tolerant of temp extremes , humidity, whatever. and
less expensive .

unless you are in your home-basement shop, and not in your own building . use what you
have . it won't make any difference if you have $5k watt puppy or $200 powered peavey .
and if you do any welding in that building... good luck with sensitive materials.

 

[DDoug]

The latest fad in shops seems to be lining the walls & ceilings with screwed on roofing tin.....ugh.

 

[dcsipo]

and if you do any welding in that building... good luck with sensitive materials.

Uhm...yeah, Welding, you may want to re-think putting that Dennon on the same main panel without heavy-duty surge protection. IIRC that sucker still has an analog PS and amps with sensitive digital stuff sparkled all over in it.

 

[CarbideBob]

When doing A/B comparisons most will pick the more efficient speaker since louder sounds better even if not as clean.
Pure manufacture ratings of db and frequency response are so hard to compare as there are no real standards for measuring.
It takes 10 times the power to get twice as loud and one needs "amplifier headroom" for transients.
LaScalas have a real decent punch down low and do thud the chest but roll off very fast below 44hz yet reasonable flat from there up.
Also very efficient. I used to hook mine up to a Sony Walkman to show them off. Try that with a 84-88 db speaker.
Many do not like horn loaded or even ported box designs. First for size and phasing the second for "breathing" or response peaks.
Also beware any amp output claims of RMS vs Peak and distortion level but that not a worry at all with your Dennon.

When I bought my set of EV Interface A's with the addon eq I thought these the best in the world. Bought some BICs V6 and sold them to mom and dad.
It is a mess and very confusing which leads to I love this or that. Most will be so very loyal to whatever they own now.
The high dollar stuff is good or they would not survive in the marketplace. There is also so much in the mid to lower price that is very good.
Want go crazy world...roll your own, how hard it be in this day of 1000 different free design, modelling and testing software.

How much HIFi does a shop really need? They tell me I have much hearing loss yet I am picky about the soundfield during work.
Across classical to what my wife calls devil music. The nuances and changes in county music.
Bob

 

[GregSY]

Well...the welding issue is a good one...I've had a Denon and Onkyo and one other over the years and never had any issue. But those were less-fancy receiver so who knows?

So here's my screwed-on tin ceiling (which I did 20 years ago before the fad). The shop itself is a wood framed building with sheetrock walls and lots of insulation both in the walls and ceiling. The speakers are sort of suspended from the ceiling...these are the biggest speakers and I have some smaller bookshelf type speakers also. These speakers, I don't remember what brand they are but might be SONY...the cabinets they were in were falling apart so I made new cabinets out of scrap plywood and stuck some boat speaker grilles over them.

The problem is even when I am right under them, they have so-so sound. They are clear enough but lack bass and are never gonna win any sound awards.

 

[technocrat]

Good quality powered speakers will contain a digital signal processor (dsp) which can analyse and change the signal in real time. The whole concept of perfect speakers and amplifier design no longer applies as the dsp can compensate the signal to match the performance of the drivers and enclosure. This is where the amazing performance of mini-speakers comes from.

 

[Yan Wo]

... Like water-skiing behind a missile-armed destroyer?

Why do I have no trouble believing you have done that!

 

[GregSY]

I can't see for shit, but my hearing and sense of smell is still pretty good. For whatever reason, I've been good about using hearing protection since I was in my early 20's. I wish I'd kept as much care in keeping carb cleaner, grinding chips, and other shit out of my eyes.

 

[dcsipo]

Well...the welding issue is a good one...I've had a Denon and Onkyo and one other over the years and never had any issue. But those were less-fancy receiver so who knows?

So here's my screwed-on tin ceiling (which I did 20 years ago before the fad). The shop itself is a wood framed building with sheetrock walls and lots of insulation both in the walls and ceiling. The speakers are sort of suspended from the ceiling...these are the biggest speakers and I have some smaller bookshelf type speakers also. These speakers, I don't remember what brand they are but might be SONY...the cabinets they were in were falling apart so I made new cabinets out of scrap plywood and stuck some boat speaker grilles over them.

The problem is even when I am right under them, they have so-so sound. They are clear enough but lack bass and are never gonna win any sound awards.

uhm...might as well hang some Bose 901s on chains

 

[metalmagpie]

If you've had that amp 20 years you can't hear above 3kHz anyway. Buy cheap.

 

[tnmgcarbide]

my last job working in a factory , where i was the machinist...the only real machinist.. this was 1994 .
every assembler,mechanic ,carpenter, general jerkoff had their own piece-of-shit radio . all tuned to
either the worst 8 song rotation pop/marketing country am station...or the worst 8 song rotation pop/marketing country fm station . either the worst. they all had either a beat-to-shit sanyo boombox
or a fucking ancient zenith or motorola clock-radio ...driven into total distortion. they just assumed
that it was supposed to sound ...like a freakin' icepick in my ear. they didn't know any different.

i digress...

 

[DDoug]

In the mid 1980's I used to visit a few friends working in one of those large drafting rooms.

Everyone else had xistioned to CAD, but these old timers held on to the boards.

At the end of the aisle was the classic 5-tube am radio, tuned to "The music of your life".
Music of Your Life - Wikipedia

And no-one was un-happy....

IIRC pipe smoking was still prevalent (very) there.

Been in an office that had this playing:
Beautiful music - Wikipedia
Or:
Adult standards - Wikipedia

AkA Muzak.

Driving thru Altoona last spring, truck radio found the last remaining station running that format....

 

[tnmgcarbide]

watch out for those all-american 5's . they have sequential heaters in the tubes, no isolation transformer.
the chassis is hot . the B+ on the inside could be around 160 volts.

it will keel.

 

[DDoug]

watch out for those all-american 5's . they have sequential heaters in the tubes, no isolation transformer.
the chassis is hot . the B+ on the inside could be around 160 volts.

it will keel.

Have had a few of them, outside is always Bakelite....

 

[GregSY]

Well....after looking at several options, I found a speaker that seems to have what I want. Big, heavy, affordable, and a little obscure. I just ordered them so they're not here yet...but they sound like they sound good.

Magnat Transpuls 1500 Review: 100% Old School Speakers