OT - Honda airplanes - any good?

[stephen thomas]

was referring to the subset that more appropriately would be called "Consumer Small Aircraft General Aviation", and this was what many thought Honda would be producing. These are usually piston engine (one or two max), six seats or less and pilotable under a basic license.

Unfortunately, there are not really any "affordable" new "family type" airplanes available today.
The Cessna 172 is probably the iconic basic 4 place airplane, and Cessna returned to producing them after the liability laws were modified in congress a few years ago. A 172 could be likened to a mid-60's Chevy Impala. Nothing special, but reliable, honest, decent capacity, and gets the job done with a modicum of economy & minimal fuss in its class. Still a favorite of flight schools.

However:

how much is a new Cessna 172 today? The Skyhawk goes out the door with pricing (from 2018) in the range from $369,000 to $438,000, depending on options

Avionics alone can make $100K difference, e.g.

During the mid 60's IIRC, a basic 172 cost around $11,000
About 1/2 the cost of a starter home, or 3- 4x the cost of a new Impala.
Not 3x the cost of a starter home and 12 - 15x current new Impala cost.
Even in '81, a new base model 172 was "only" $34,000.

OTOH, Cirrus has been one of the best selling aircraft for the past 5 years, at least.
Base model piston starts at $672,000. It is not the most popular model.

Most of us just really aren't middle class anymore.

The most new piston single airplanes registered for years, have been homebuilts. Especially Van's RV's.
of which the most popular models end up past $100,000 much of the time. Fast-build kit + engine + avionics + professional paint.

Home - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes


Nonetheless, There are still capable, fast, inexpensive models out there. & plenty of used airplanes. Both spam cans and Amateur built. A dirty secret is that if you can afford it up front, buying someone elses airworthy completed project or recntly restored airplane often costs less than the component parts.
Join a local EAA chapter, get connected, start building. A big factor is just being in the culture. Like any niche culture, there's a lot of support. Suddently there are material and personal opportunities, not least constant exposure. To the airport, to others' projects, to people you might not have guessed who are strapping on little airplanes every day.

smt

 

[Robert R]

Those engine mounts are just weird, and flimsy looking.

Why the hell would they do that? Expecting it to operate into gravel strips?

The design results in a lighter air frame and lower drag.
The conventional design with engine pylons attached directly to the fuselage requires additional structural support to carry the 2000 lb thrust load from each engine.
The Honda engine pylons are attached to the wing spars.

The engine location is based on computer and wind tunnel optimization studies for minimum drag.

The fuel consumption of the Honda design is about 10% lower than its competition.

 

[DDoug]

Found it:
https://questairventure.com/photos

 

[lucky7]

^^^ pretty, but imo fuselage is too short. A Sequoia Falco otoh? Just gorgeous, and a simple single engine retractable. Mmmm!

L7

 

[boslab]

Wonder what it’s like flying in a plane like a Honda, looks nice, only been in a jumbo myself, different I suppose!
Mark

 

[DDoug]

^^^ pretty, but imo fuselage is too short. A Sequoia Falco otoh? Just gorgeous, and a simple single engine retractable. Mmmm!

L7

Don't knock it, flight reviews were very good.

 

[DDoug]

I'll take a half-century of proven field perfomance over "flight reviews" any day.

North American / Ryan Navion

All it really needed was to shed the fragile Continental for a properly reliable Lycoming "tractor" engine.

And so it came to pass:

Navion "B" AKA "Super Navion":

260hp Lycoming GO-435-C2 engine.

I understand completely, and when it hit the magazines, I said the same thing "too short".
But I don't even pretend to design air-o-planes.

if they were a large company, and had all the experience, they would have several out there in extensive testing.
However, the design team had some serious HP and experience working for the major manufs, like Piper.

 

[Milland]

The design results in a lighter air frame and lower drag.
The conventional design with engine pylons attached directly to the fuselage requires additional structural support to carry the 2000 lb thrust load from each engine.
The Honda engine pylons are attached to the wing spars.

The engine location is based on computer and wind tunnel optimization studies for minimum drag.

The fuel consumption of the Honda design is about 10% lower than its competition.

My understanding is there's a significant noise and vibration reduction with those pylon mounts too.

 

[CalG]

I would go for an L-19 any time. ;-)

 

[Terry Keeley]

Now here's a biz jet (Bombardier Global Express).

6,000 nm range at M.85 in comfort.

I used to work with a guy that sold them on the side, mostly to rich Russians after the wall came down. Said they sold themselves.

 

[lucky7]

I’ve never flown a Questair or a Falco, but just enjoyed some reading and videos of both. I do like the no drama crosswind landing a Falco can apparently do. Wonder how the shorter fuselage of the Questair does this?

https://youtu.be/Dg_-UGEjBJw


L7

 

[lucky7]

Now here's a biz jet (Bombardier Global Express).

6,000 nm range at M.85 in comfort.

Looks so much nicer than the Lear 35A or Cessna Citation II that I’ve spent too much time in. A washroom! Coffee can be enjoyed without agony. And don’t get me started on the high altitude road block Cessna 500 Citation..

L7

 

[GregSY]

I once went to look at a Wells Index mill being sold by a guy at a little airstrip. The mil wasn't worth buying. But, what I remember was he was in possession of several airplanes that looked like hell...he told me they were either Chinese knock-offs of a well known Russian design, or vice versa. If I did fly, I sure wouldn't fly in one of those.

A while back, some older (rich) guy went down in (I think) a Mustang P-51. One of the local pilots around here told me "It's no surprise...you take a guy who no longer has the physical ability to fly hard and put him in a fighter plane that's been hot-rodded way past anything it was ever designed for...that's what happens." I seem to recall he said the engine was supercharged and though it sounds impossible, I think he said to 120PSI boost.

 

[machinistrrt]

I haven't done a lot of research, but I saw a few used Honda planes for sale for 'cheap'...like $5.3M

From time to time I find myself grateful that I never got into flying....or horses.

May I suggest sailboats? After a few libations and you tipsy over the side, it's a soft landing.

As for Honda aircraft, they're not a Gulfstream.

 

[Terry Keeley]

Looks so much nicer than the Lear 35A or Cessna Citation II that I’ve spent too much time in. A washroom! Coffee can be enjoyed without agony. And don’t get me started on the high altitude road block Cessna 500 Citation..

L7

"Slowtation" we used to call them.

 

[Steve in SoCal]

The GX is 10X the price of a Honda jet

You guy went for Cessna 172's to the top of the food chain. The big iron is nice but, it's a different class kinda like a Hass mini mill or a 7 axis machine.

Greg,
A merlin has a normal power setting of 60" manifold pressure 90 inches "war power" and racing you would push the manifold pressure to 120 with ADI, water injection. That is just under 60 PSI of boost.

Steve

 

[BillE]

Didn't Porsche make a flat six airplane engine a couple decades ago? I just recall a few articles about it in some magazines. They were talking about all the changes they had to make from the automotive version for aero use.

Might be a bit longer than that. Dual batteries, dual CDI, dual ECU from dim memory, everything controlled off the throttle quadrant. Delivered a couple to their new owners - or at least the airframe they were installed in, back in the day. Subsequently developed a bit of a maintenance reputation....usual geared engine problems I'd expect!

Subaru also had their light aircraft, they didn't use their boxer though, thank goodness. Kawasaki is big in helos and continuing on the with bike makers, Vespa made the aptly nicknamed pig, guaranteed excitement on a 40+C day with a full load.

But, what I remember was he was in possession of several airplanes that looked like hell...he told me they were either Chinese knock-offs of a well known Russian design, or vice versa. If I did fly, I sure wouldn't fly in one of those.

Would have been Nanchangs, lots of them ended up in western hands 25~30 years ago. A mate had one, he reckoned less trouble than the usual US manufactured tin cans he operated, plus the radial engine with shutters was cute.

 

[boslab]

My mother ( god bless her) worked in an aircraft company during the war, she and hundreds of other girls were in an old piano factory outside London making mosquitoes out of balsa, spruce and birch plywood, glued and nailed together!
As a kid it wasn’t really significant but learning a bit more turned out it was a remarkable contraption, I’m surprised that wood is still not used, plastic and composite Ali etc is preferable, I would think wood an ideal material for self build or small numbers, hell the stuck 2 Allison merlin engines on the thing, that’s a bit of HP
Mark

 

[DDoug]

Subaru also had their light aircraft, they didn't use their boxer though, thank goodness.

Thanks for the informative write up, but what is all of this ?:
Foxcon - Subaru EA81
subaru ea81 engine conversions for aircraft at DuckDuckGo

 

[DrHook]

Thanks for the informative write up, but what is all of this ?:
Foxcon - Subaru EA81
subaru ea81 engine conversions for aircraft at DuckDuckGo

There are a few companies who modify auto engines for "Experimental" aircraft. Subarus, Hondas, LS Chivvys, and Yamaha snowmobile engines are all on display at Oshkosh, and all have their followers.