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OT- how to ground old two wire waffle maker.

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stoneaxe

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pacific northwest
My wife has an old art deco waffle maker- two wire- I was looking at it and thinking if there is ever a short inside, the entire metal housing is going to be a bad, bad place to touch. I was thinking of using a three wire plug and running a ground to a drilled hole and terminal on the thing. The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to polish it up and relegate it to a display item.
Thoughts?
 
I've got an old one with the bakelite 2 prong female plug. I pondered cobbling up some kinda extra connector onto the bakelite with JB weld or some such. I never got past the pondering stage.



...
 
Never, ever.............ever! say "grounding"(big grin)

You're wanting to bond BOND the case. Any metal part of the case is suitable for bonding. Just run the 3rd wire of a 3 wire cord to whatever metal part you choose on the waffle maker(I hope it's not one of those new age Belgian thingies.............I like REAL waffles)

The case will always be a bad thing to touch.........bonded or not........if your circuit breaker takes a dump. Bonding(aka grounding) is a return path to the source....the power company. If the case gets hot it will trip the breaker........but it's still hot until the breaker flips.

Grounding is a misnomer. All true grounding does, is provide a pathway for lightning, it does not make the equipment enclosure safe. Bonding provides a momentary surge that trips the breaker................the current is trying to return to source. In the millisecond that this occurs, you better hope you're not leaning on the waffle maker. After that millisecond.........all's good. Otherwise, you're a pathway to the power company.........not the ground. The current will always seek a return path.
 
I thought bonding was electrically connecting all parts of a system so any stray current has an uninterrupted and reliable path to ground.

For a waffle iron, bonding would entail a wire from the top half to the bottom half, so stray current wouldn't have to find it's path to ground throught the iffy waffle iron hinge.
 
I thought bonding was electrically connecting all parts of a system so any stray current has an uninterrupted and reliable path to ground.

For a waffle iron, bonding would entail a wire from the top half to the bottom half, so stray current wouldn't have to find it's path to ground throught the iffy waffle iron hinge.
Bonding provides a return path to neutral. Neutral is the pathway back to the power company. Everything needs a complete circuit. The breaker, in that circuit, responds to surge current, or overheating............which trips it.

The Earth is a bad conductor for what we're talking about. It's great for lightning, but not good for AC. Most folks talk about the path of least resistance......thinking that the Earth is that path. Actually, the wiring in your building is the best path......back to the source.

If you're interested in a very good explanation, look at some of the material from Mike Holt. It's on the internet, and it's valid. Don't believe me, read it, and make up your own mind. It's a fact check to all the bad info out there.

I used to think the same way as you're thinking. I thought that the enclosure was safe as long as it had "an alternative easy way to ground". It ain't true. The enclosure is hot until the breaker trips.......which requires that pesky full circuit back to your power company.
 
The enclosure will be hot even if unplugged until it cools off. Two types of hot in one case. The heat can fry your skin the electrical hot can stop your heart.
BILL D
 
Guess it's just me, but of all the things I worry about, old two-wire appliances don't make the list. I've been using them and metal housing power tools for more than sixty years. On very rare occasions, in very unusual circumstances, I've had one tickle me, but unless I'm making waffles waist-deep in a cold lake, I'm not going to wish I'd added a "bonding circuit."

jack vines, who made toast this morning in a sixty-year-old-two-fabric-covered-wires toaster. So far, so good.
 
Bonding provides a return path to neutral.

Somebody else needs to chime in here.

I'm certainly no expert, but I'm sure the bonded system is not to be connected to the neutral anywhere but the service entrance. All of the members of the grounding system are to be bonded together, and connected to an approved ground. A grounding system in a home includes the metal water pipes, and a bonding connection is required across the water meter in case the meter is removed the system will still be grounded. One or more ground rods may be used or maybe required, although the efficacy of a ground rod through a slab may be questionable due to desiccated earth beneath the slab.

The intent is the grounding system is local, and is independent of a connection back to the power company.
 
Bonding provides a return path to neutral.
I think you are trying to say that connecting the case of the waffle iron to a copper rod in the ground is not safe. I agree.

But let's all be clear that connecting the case to the neutral wire (which is one of the two wires already going to the waffle iron) would be extremely dangerous (I hope that's not what you are suggesting).

This is not complicated. The ground wire in a 3-prong plug carries no current under normal conditions, and it's main purpose is to pop the breaker if the case becomes hot. Even though it connects to neutral (and earth ground) at the service entrance, it serves a different purpose and needs to be a separate wire.

The word "grounding" means a bunch of vague things in the electrical world. "Bonding " doesn't make it clearer for me, but maybe it does for others.
 
The last thing you want to have in a waffle maker is bonding the top to the bottom when you open it. The waflle can not be bonded to either half or it will not come out to be able to eat it.
The worlds appliances ran for many years on two wire cords and plenty still run on two wire (new ones) . Cook your waffles with plenty of butter and do not worry about bonding or grounding, just on what your topping will be....;)
 
Yes you need an electrical path back to the transformer on a pole near your house. The circuit from the power company's generators to that transformer is completely irrelevant!

AND that electrical path is through the actual earth ground that all service entrances have. You can usually see this ground wire on the outside of your house going to a ground rod that is close to the point where the two hots and the neutral come to your house from a pole. That path, through the actual earth, through the SOIL ITSELF, is the only ground between the transformer and your house.

So, when you connect a safety ground, using the third wire in the cord, you are connecting to earth ground. And that is why it is called a GROUND.

Now, that ground and the neutral wire from the transformer are connected (BONDED) together at your first breaker box in the house. So, at that point the neutral and the ground are one and the same.

And the neutral, center tap of the pole transformer is also connected to an earth ground at the pole the transformer is mounted on. There will be a physical ground rod very close to the bottom of the pole and a ground wire running up to the transformer.

You really do not need to get so hung up over an imagined difference between the neutral and the ground paths from the pole to your house. It is only after the circuitry goes past that first breaker box in the house/building that they become separate. And there is good reason for that separation.



Bonding provides a return path to neutral. Neutral is the pathway back to the power company. Everything needs a complete circuit. The breaker, in that circuit, responds to surge current, or overheating............which trips it.

The Earth is a bad conductor for what we're talking about. It's great for lightning, but not good for AC. Most folks talk about the path of least resistance......thinking that the Earth is that path. Actually, the wiring in your building is the best path......back to the source.

If you're interested in a very good explanation, look at some of the material from Mike Holt. It's on the internet, and it's valid. Don't believe me, read it, and make up your own mind. It's a fact check to all the bad info out there.

I used to think the same way as you're thinking. I thought that the enclosure was safe as long as it had "an alternative easy way to ground". It ain't true. The enclosure is hot until the breaker trips.......which requires that pesky full circuit back to your power company.
 
I also repaired an older waffle iron for my mother. The hardest part was finding wire that could withstand the temperature at a local supplier in a limited time. The hot conductor and the neutral conductor must both be rated for the temperature that will exist inside the appliance.

The waffle iron probably has a connector of some type, probably unique to that model, so that the cord could be disconnected. Finding a way to replace that connector with a three prong one that can also withstand the temperature can also be problematic. You would be looking for a similar physical configuration, the needed current rating, and the needed temperature rating. Good luck!

If you are not replacing the old cord, but only adding a GROUND wire, then you may have some other options. A wire with Teflon insulation can withstand the temperature of a soldering iron with little of no effect on it. You could change the plug for a three prong one and wrap the Teflon insulated wire around the original cord. Be sure the Teflon wire is of the stranded variety, not solid. And the more conductors in the stranding, the better for good flexibility.

At the waffle iron you could use a banana plug with no insulation on that added wire and a banana jack, also with no insulation mounted in a new hole in the waffle iron. Inside the waffle iron the un-insulated banana jack would probably have already provided the needed connection to the metal frame. If not, add a short piece of that Teflon insulated wire to do that. Use un-insulated crimp connectors inside the waffle iron: do not use solder connections as they may melt.

If there are two or more sections (top and bottom) that need to be grounded, then you need to find a way to add another piece of that Teflon wire to do it. You can probably follow the factory path for the power conductors.

Personally I would probably get a new waffle iron. But I know how you can become attached to these things.
 
Cook your waffles with plenty of butter ....;)
Heathen. Maple syrup, the real kind, from trees not out of aunt jemima's soup kitchen. That stuff is a precursor chemical to some sort of cancer, I'm certain.

I also like the phony whipped cream in a can but we have a stringent safety program here which requires frequent pressure testing to assure those don't blow up in the refrigerator, so usually the can was empty when the waffles were done. Had to quit buying that, was not cost-effective :(
 
Never, ever.............ever! say "grounding"(big grin)

You're wanting to bond BOND the case. Any metal part of the case is suitable for bonding. Just run the 3rd wire of a 3 wire cord to whatever metal part you choose on the waffle maker(I hope it's not one of those new age Belgian thingies.............I like REAL waffles)

The case will always be a bad thing to touch.........bonded or not........if your circuit breaker takes a dump. Bonding(aka grounding) is a return path to the source....the power company. If the case gets hot it will trip the breaker........but it's still hot until the breaker flips.

Grounding is a misnomer. All true grounding does, is provide a pathway for lightning, it does not make the equipment enclosure safe. Bonding provides a momentary surge that trips the breaker................the current is trying to return to source. In the millisecond that this occurs, you better hope you're not leaning on the waffle maker. After that millisecond.........all's good. Otherwise, you're a pathway to the power company.........not the ground. The current will always seek a return path.
Dude, the guy wants to make is waffle iron a bit more safe.
Ground and bond are different, but you are arguing a bit like
calling an engine a motor. Mechanic knows it is an engine,
but motor works for 99% of the English speaking population.
I am a word nazi for certain things, I will admit.
But always consider your audience.
He is likely not an electrician or an engineer.
He is a waffle maker.
Yeah, you are smart.
But there is a time and place to let it shine, bro.
Else your light casts an unfavorable shadow.
And yes I should probably take my own advice more often
on this subject, I admit.

-Doozer
 
I think I will polish it up, and put it on the shelf next to the art deco clothes irons, toasters and movie projectors. Yes, I have a thing for industrial design from the 30's and 40's!
Wife will get a new waffle iron.
Thank you all for the suggestions!
 
The worlds appliances ran for many years on two wire cords and plenty still run on two wire (new ones) . Cook your waffles with plenty of butter and do not worry about bonding or grounding, just on what your topping will be....;)
Best advice ever.
Propaganda preaches to the masses they should be paralyzed
by safety. It is a disease of the mind the hysteria that has been
indoctrinated into the American mind. It seems our waffle making
friend has a bit of the sickness. Even Underwriter's testing seems
not enough for him. Build enough walls and you will forget the
pleasure of opening a window.

-Doozer
 
I think I will polish it up, and put it on the shelf next to the art deco clothes irons, toasters and movie projectors. Yes, I have a thing for industrial design from the 30's and 40's!
Wife will get a new waffle iron.
Thank you all for the suggestions!
Down with the sickness.
It seems your mind was made up before you asked the question.
In my years, I have not figured out what drives that behavior.
I will pray for you.

-D
 
Down with the sickness.
It seems your mind was made up before you asked the question.
In my years, I have not figured out what drives that behavior.
I will pray for you.

-D
Heh. Now that is funny.
But I am good at evaluating my experience, and the potential risk -reward ratio in certain things. There is always a balance- how likely is a thing TO happen, and how severe would it be, IF it happened.
If both are low, no problem. If the likelihood is high, and the consequences low, no big deal. If both are high, bad juju.

But the zone that bites a lot of people badly is where the likelihood is low, but the potential hazard (electrocution, burning down the house, etc) is severe.

Probability / Consequence.
 
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