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OT: Is technology slowing things down?

SeymourDumore

Diamond
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Location
CT
Same as detecting voter fraud in person. All these are just facetious arguments. The voting method is not a barrier if one is trying to cheat. Make willful voting fraud a 10-year felony and prosecute it rigorously, no matter who commits it.
I am still unclear on how a ballot sent to an otherwise nonexistent resident ( moved recently, died recently etc ) and fraudulently filled out by someone else can be detected with the same ease as two people showing up in person for the same vote?
You think if both my kids sent in their mail-in ballot it would have been detected just the same?

With that said, got anything against the list provided by Scott?
  • A national system to connect state and local voter registration lists
  • Voter identification based on a universally available REAL ID card
  • Policies to improve voter access for all communities, as well as innovations like vote centers and voter information lookup sites
  • Stronger efforts to combat fraud, especially in absentee voting
  • Auditable paper backups for all voting technology
 

dcsipo

Diamond
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
Baldwin, MD/USA
I'm thinking you don't understand how identity theft works. They get your DL, move to another state, use a real or forged birth certificate and SS card and get a new ID issued to them with your name on it. Read the link on the couple in Hawaii, they made it 30 years on false identities, probably voted too.

How did a 13yo child make it thru the e-verify system as an adult?Whomever used my brothers ID had the card, and knew his SS number, afaik they were never caught and are still out there.

What I'm on about is an ID card is not proof that the holder is the true owner, so if honest elections is the goal, we need a National DNA database, and you have to be swabbed to vote, its the only way to be sure :D .
Well, ID theft is one thing, and voter fraud is another. Let's stick with one person with one vote. The US has a finite eligible voting population. So if there are more votes than voters, that is detectable. If some people vote in place of other people is less detectable, but is it enough to sway an election? My point through this thread is that cheating is possible but unlikely, no matter the voting method. The whole putting up all kinds of safeguards upfront is difficult and ineffective. Prosecution on the backend is a lot bigger deterrent.
 

SeymourDumore

Diamond
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Location
CT
the link on the couple in Hawaii, they made it 30 years on false identities, probably voted too.

What I'm on about is an ID card is not proof that the holder is the true owner,

Well, if someone forged and lived under false identity for 30 years, you think their primary goal in life is to register as a voter and expose themselves to the authorities every election cycle?
Same applies to anyone with a fake ID.
Stupid argument!
 

dcsipo

Diamond
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
Baldwin, MD/USA
I am still unclear on how a ballot sent to an otherwise nonexistent resident ( moved recently, died recently etc ) and fraudulently filled out by someone else can be detected with the same ease as two people showing up in person for the same vote?
You think if both my kids sent in their mail-in ballot it would have been detected just the same?

With that said, got anything against the list provided by Scott?
One or two in a million will not change anything; if it does, we are screwed like we were in 2000 if the difference is 11797. then any fraud is very detectable and easily traced.
 

mhajicek

Titanium
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
Actually, what the law says is those who prove lawful presence as defined in section 1 of chapter 90 will be automatically registered to vote *.
That's not what you said before.

I'm not the one trying to pass off a load to forum readers.

Straight from the Secretary of State's website (emphasis added):

"As of January 1, 2020, if you are a Massachusetts citizen conducting certain transactions through the Registry of Motor Vehicles, MassHealth, and the Commonwealth Health Connector and you do not opt out of registering to vote, you will automatically become registered to vote.

If you do not opt out of registering, you will automatically be registered to vote when you:
  • Apply for or renew a driver's license
  • Apply for or renew a learner's permit
  • Apply for or renew a state ID
  • Apply for MassHealth benefits online, in person, or by phone.
  • Apply for health insurance through the Commonwealth Health Connector
If you do not wish to be registered to vote, or you do not wish to be registered at the address you use with the RMV, MassHealth, or the Health Connector, you may opt out of registering."


"If you are a Massachusetts citizen..."
 

latheman78

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 28, 2022
Location
Southern Ca Mtns.
Seymore, you're welcome to your opinion, but my entire state (Oregon) went to EXCLUSIVELY mail-in balloting years ago, and we are not looking back. Doing anything else is a huge waste of everybody's time.
You do realize all those votes need to be vetted. That takes a lot more time than voting in person.
 

Scottl

Diamond
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
Eastern Massachusetts, USA
That's not what you said before.



"If you are a Massachusetts citizen..."
I don't understand your reply. What I said before was that automatic DMV voter registration plus licenses for illegals would have many of them registered to vote. A person can not be a Massachusetts citizen unless they are a USA citizen. All others are residents, some legal, some quasi-legal (deferred action) and some completely illegal.

The law re automatic voter registration is written in a manner that requires first looking at another Mass. law and then the federal code to fully understand what "lawful presence" actually means. It is by no means restricted to those who came here legally on visas.
 

Scottl

Diamond
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
Eastern Massachusetts, USA
Well, ID theft is one thing, and voter fraud is another. Let's stick with one person with one vote. The US has a finite eligible voting population. So if there are more votes than voters, that is detectable. If some people vote in place of other people is less detectable, but is it enough to sway an election? My point through this thread is that cheating is possible but unlikely, no matter the voting method. The whole putting up all kinds of safeguards upfront is difficult and ineffective. Prosecution on the backend is a lot bigger deterrent.
Some people voting in place of others IS enough to sway an election in a close race if it is done on a large enough scale by skilled operatives. Ballots can be harvested from elderly, disabled, nursing home residents and even the mailbox of people who are away for a bit or persons who have moved without notifying local officials which is common for young apartment dwellers or those who live with a series of relatives and friends.

One issue some miss is that "thorough investigations" are usually done by the same people who set up the vulnerabilities in the system in the first place so investigations tend to be superficial and prosecutions rare. That is truly a case of the fox guarding the hen house and in no way "proves" vote fraud is rare. Also, even when found vote fraud tends to be grossly under-reported by partisan media when such cheating benefits their side.
 

Trueturning

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Uhh, ok, whatever you say






If you make an assertion, IE that mail in voting is problematic, you need to back it up. There are virtually zero proven cases of fraud related to mail in voting. Most of the proven fraud last round was [Ta Da!] Republicans
your fear is not a reason to change the way things are done.
Link for you and your claim.

 

mhajicek

Titanium
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
I don't understand your reply. What I said before was that automatic DMV voter registration plus licenses for illegals would have many of them registered to vote. A person can not be a Massachusetts citizen unless they are a USA citizen. All others are residents, some legal, some quasi-legal (deferred action) and some completely illegal.

The law re automatic voter registration is written in a manner that requires first looking at another Mass. law and then the federal code to fully understand what "lawful presence" actually means. It is by no means restricted to those who came here legally on visas.
What you first quoted said that Mass citizens (who are also US citizens by definition) will be automatically registered to vote. Nothing about "legal residents" or "lawfully present". You cited that as proof that non-citizens would be registered to vote. That is contradictory. You then went on to define what a legal resident is, and what "lawfully present" means, which are irrelevant to the discussion.

Where is the law that says that non-citizens will be registered to vote?
 

dcsipo

Diamond
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
Baldwin, MD/USA
Link for you and your claim.


Less than 1400 instances in 20 years, yeah, that is a real problem swaying all kinds of elections. In reality, where most people live, only 62% of eligible voters turn out. 48% let other idiots talk for them or prevented from voicing their choices.
 

Trueturning

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2019

Less than 1400 instances in 20 years, yeah, that is a real problem swaying all kinds of elections. In reality, where most people live, only 62% of eligible voters turn out. 48% let other idiots talk for them or prevented from voicing their choices.
There is the reactions to current voting systems through our system of government and free speech. I see no problem really. It will be this in one area that in another unless Federal takes uniform action and then there are still the States. I never had any problem with absentee voting for any reason. I did it a few times and proved who I was as required. I do not get why anyone one might be bothered by that In this day and age. Sure I listen to the concerns anyway.
 

dcsipo

Diamond
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
Baldwin, MD/USA
There is the reactions to current voting systems through our system of government and free speech. I see no problem really. It will be this in one area that in another unless Federal takes uniform action and then there are still the States. I never had any problem with absentee voting for any reason. I did it a few times and proved who I was as required. I do not get why anyone one might be bothered by that In this day and age. Sure I listen to the concerns anyway.
The whole voter fraud-bruhaha is because the more people vote, the smaller the culture war minority becomes.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
Sooo ....people leave Nicaragua or Colombia,trek thru Mexico ,cross the border into the US .....just so they can vote Democrat once every two years?............Meanwhile nearly 50% of US eligible voters cant be bothered trekking to a voting place 10 miles distant.?
 

Scottl

Diamond
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
Eastern Massachusetts, USA
What you first quoted said that Mass citizens (who are also US citizens by definition) will be automatically registered to vote. Nothing about "legal residents" or "lawfully present". You cited that as proof that non-citizens would be registered to vote. That is contradictory. You then went on to define what a legal resident is, and what "lawfully present" means, which are irrelevant to the discussion.

Where is the law that says that non-citizens will be registered to vote?
I've laid out the trail of breadcrumbs. If you can't follow it or comprehend the meaning that's not on me. You're sounding like a broken record - and you are wrong. Correct interpretation of all the relevant laws show that indeed some illegals will be automatically registered to vote when they apply for the newly gifted amnesty driver's licenses.
 

gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
Link for you and your claim.

My claim stands
Note the total lack of any references for the last 8 years
In the last 25 years, 3 instances where actual voter fraud[rather than bribery etc] that involved a national election
Note, they were caught
Despite searching searching searching, there is no voter fraud, in 2020, in 2022
your candidates just suck
YOu want to win elections, express policies that people agree with
 

gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
Bullshit. We do it in Australia every election without dramas, and there are a lot more candidates than the usual 2 you have, plus we use preferential voting, so that takes longer as well.

Not touching the rest of the argument, but inability to count paper ballots MIGHT be true for you guys, but if so, it's due to incompetence not actual difficulty.

PDW
Uhh, more people live in Texas than live in Australia. 13 times more people live in the US and Australia
It takes weeks for you to process an election
So, no it is not fast, and it has been proven time and time again that if you count, by hand, tens of thousands of ballots over and over you will get variable results

There are reasons that people erroneously think that it takes longer to decide elections
The Democrats held the House for all but 4 years from 1933 to 1995
The Democrats held the Senate for all but 8 years from 1933 to 1995

If it took 6 weeks to determine the outcome of an election to represent West Jabip at almost anytime during the lifetime of anyone posting on this board, you would be totally unaware of it
 

gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
I've laid out the trail of breadcrumbs. If you can't follow it or comprehend the meaning that's not on me. You're sounding like a broken record - and you are wrong. Correct interpretation of all the relevant laws show that indeed some illegals will be automatically registered to vote when they apply for the newly gifted amnesty driver's licenses.
No, no it does not.
Your fear is the only thing saying that illegals will vote
Broken record indeed
 








 
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