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OT LED tail lights

Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Location
marysville ohio
I have never messed with LED tail lights, the car owner wants to use LED lights as they are supposed to be brighter than the usual incandescent bulbs. I am working on a kit car that has a very basic lighting system. It uses a 1157 bulb for tail and stop light and a 1156 for the turn signal. The turn signal flashes with an incandescent bulb but not with the LED bulb, do I need a resistor or a different flasher? The parts store chick says I need to put Diodes in the lighting circuit but does not know why and has no idea how it should be wired
Can anyone shed any light on this subject?
 

L Vanice

Diamond
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
Some years ago, I installed some aftermarket LED bulbs in a previous car I owned. One thing I recall is that they are polarity sensitive. If they can be installed in two different ways, they will only work in one of those ways. So you try it in the socket and see if it works. If not, install it the other way. I am thinking of the glass tube lamps with a metal cap on each end and the all-glass lamps with bent wires on the bottom, and my comment may not apply to an 1156 lamp.

Larry
 
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EPAIII

Diamond
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Location
Beaumont, TX, USA
Incandescent bulbs work with AC or DC of any polarity. They just need current flowing through them.

LED bulbs use LEDs or Light Emitting Diodes. Being diodes, they are designed to work with DC of only one polarity. They may light up with AC, but they also may be damaged by it. So, for use with AC, they need additional circuitry, usually inside the bulb.

For autos, the battery supplies 12 V DC and DC will have a polarity. Many of the LED bulbs that are designed to replace the incandescent style bulbs will have a polarity and will only work if the socket is wired that way. If the socket is wired the opposite way, the bulb will not light up.

One thing you can try is to see if the bulb has two contacts on the center insulator and is a bayonet mount that can be installed two ways. Turning such a bulb 180 degrees while installing it may be all that is needed to get it to work. This can be tried with the push-in bulbs too.

The other possibility is that the bulb can only be installed one way. If so, then either the socket needs to be wired the other way or a different brand of bulb may solve the problem.

That clerk at the auto store just heard someone talking about this and picked up some buzz words, like diode. Ignore her.
 

rawen2

Aluminum
Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Location
High Desert of CO
When you turn on the turn signal if the LED's light up but don't flash you need a different flasher made for LED's. LED's don't pass enough current to operate a flasher made for incandescent bulbs.

If the LED's are not lighting up then refer to the earlier posts about checking polarity. If I recall correctly 1157's had the two nubs for the bayonet mount at different distances from the bottom of the bulb so should only be able to be locked into the socket in one orientation. But the 1156 I think had the nubs at the same height so it could be installed in two orientations. Wouldn't make any difference with an incandescent but an LED won't light up in one of those orientations.

Edit: DUH! Moonlight Machine (below) is right. The 1156 won't make any difference which way it's installed. Don't know what I was thinkin' !
 
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Bill D

Diamond
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
Modesto, CA USA
Several years ago the led bulbs were very directional. Emitting light in a 120 degree or so cone. If the other driver was out of that cone the led was not bright enough to see in the daylight at all. No idea if they are better now.
BilL D
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Location
marysville ohio
When you turn on the turn signal if the LED's light up but don't flash you need a different flasher made for LED's. LED's don't pass enough current to operate a flasher made for incandescent bulbs.

If the LED's are not lighting up then refer to the earlier posts about checking polarity. If I recall correctly 1157's had the two nubs for the bayonet mount at different distances from the bottom of the bulb so should only be able to be locked into the socket in one orientation. But the 1156 I think had the nubs at the same height so it could be installed in two orientations. Wouldn't make any difference with an incandescent but an LED won't light up in one of those orientations.
1156 bulbs have only one contact on the bottom so it will not matter how it is installed.
 

Scottl

Diamond
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
Eastern Massachusetts, USA
Most new cars today use LED bulbs but .... they are purpose built including lenses rather than retrofits.

The other day I was behind a late model Jeep SUV at a stop light and the tail lights had a clear section that lit red when the brake was pressed but switched to yellow when the directional was on. No idea if it uses bicolor LEDs or 2 different colors under each "nub" in a prismatic lense but impressive either way.

As I recall there are some retrofit LED bulbs that include a resistor and even some with a diode bridge but I can't name any brands off hand.
 

GregSY

Diamond
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Location
Houston
I'd like to take the guy - the inventor, if you will - who introduced LED lights in vehicles, and beat him to death. Nothing better than having some dope come at you with 50 Billion watt LED headlights (and of course his retarded fog lights on all the time). Or sitting behind someone with their LED brake lights and amber turn signals a-blarin'.
 

cg285

Stainless
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Location
sumterville, fl
I'd like to take the guy - the inventor, if you will - who introduced LED lights in vehicles, and beat him to death. Nothing better than having some dope come at you with 50 Billion watt LED headlights (and of course his retarded fog lights on all the time). Or sitting behind someone with their LED brake lights and amber turn signals a-blarin'.
i agree and with jacked up trucks
 

JoeE.

Titanium
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Location
Kansas
Yesterday, out on the highway... I got behind a herd of 3 model A Ford cars... all had Kentucky license plates. Each was pulling a little trailer.
They were running 40-45 mph. They were in a tight little group. (they all had their headlights on... so were displaying tail lights to the rear)
As I went to pass... as soon as I got out in the other lane, I noticed the brake light (just one on these things) was "lit" on the middle car. It was an LED tail/brake light.
First thing I thought "oh, shit... he's getting ready to turn off..." The tail lights on the trailer were flickering, like they were blinking. Looked like "turn signal" type of blinking.
I slammed the brakes on and pulled back in behind the last car.
Well, the bastard didn't turn.. they kept chugging along at 45. Not much oncoming traffic.
I couldn't see the middle car (with the brake light) because the following model A was basically right on his tail...
I'd pull back out... there's that damn brake light... and there's a car on the horizon.. pulled back in.
I followed these traffic impediments for about 2 miles...
Finally got a clear shot and pulled back out to pass... went past these geezers... the offending A must have had one of two issues... either his brake pedal is touching the brake light switch and keeping the brake lights on, or he doesn't know that there are connections to both tail/running lights and brake lights on those things and you've got to wire them correctly... looked to me like the brake light LED was lit, instead of the running/tail light... That, and he's got a bad connection somewhere and the tail (running) lights on the trailer were constantly flickering.
The LED light displayed to the back was too bright, looked like he had the brakes applied all the time, which, when you go to pass someone, would give one pause to think that he's slowing down to make a left turn...
I was fuming mad... I'm sure just as mad as the other passenger vehicles and semi trucks in the caravan behind me for all that distance. I was probably a mile away from that traffic jam before I ever saw anyone else get out from behind them...
 
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jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
LED lamps don't draw enough current to operate electromechanical flashers, nor do they work well with electronic bulb control units. If the first type you need to put a resistor to ground accross the lamp to simulate the correct current draw. Check the draw with an ammeter, when there's incandescents in use, then size the resistor to duplicate. Be sure to have one sized in wattage to handle the power. In my case the universal flasher worked OK with a 150 ohm resistor, and two LED turn signal lamps. YMMV. I was able to tuck the resistor inside the turn signal housings on the bikes.
 

Dan from Oakland

Titanium
Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Location
Oakland, CA
Jim is correct- a regular flasher needs a certain load in order to work properly. Leds dont draw enough current to make a conventional flasher happy. You have two choices- replace the flasher with an electronic one or add load resisitors in the taillights. Seems a 6 ohm resistor is about the right one per this link:
 

surplusjohn

Diamond
Joined
Apr 11, 2002
Location
Syracuse, NY USA
I'd like to take the guy - the inventor, if you will - who introduced LED lights in vehicles, and beat him to death. Nothing better than having some dope come at you with 50 Billion watt LED headlights (and of course his retarded fog lights on all the time). Or sitting behind someone with their LED brake lights and amber turn signals a-blarin'.
I was approaching a traffic light downtown and a jacked up pickup was coming towards me with his fusion powered headlights on full blast. I flashed my head lights, he didn't turn down his do I flashed again and he turned down his brights but then when we both were stopped at the red light he turned on this 3 x3 foot panel of incredible bright white light just to blind me. I pulled up next to him in my mini van intending to tell him off but he had very dark tinted winds and gunned it . These lights are not only obnoxious but dangerous.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Location
marysville ohio
I was approaching a traffic light downtown and a jacked up pickup was coming towards me with his fusion powered headlights on full blast. I flashed my head lights, he didn't turn down his do I flashed again and he turned down his brights but then when we both were stopped at the red light he turned on this 3 x3 foot panel of incredible bright white light just to blind me. I pulled up next to him in my mini van intending to tell him off but he had very dark tinted winds and gunned it . These lights are not only obnoxious but dangerous.
Yeah tell him off sure. That sounds like a great way to get shot.
Yesterday, out on the highway... I got behind a herd of 3 model A Ford cars... all had Kentucky license plates. Each was pulling a little trailer.
They were running 40-45 mph. They were in a tight little group. (they all had their headlights on... so were displaying tail lights to the rear)
As I went to pass... as soon as I got out in the other lane, I noticed the brake light (just one on these things) was "lit" on the middle car. It was an LED tail/brake light.
First thing I thought "oh, shit... he's getting ready to turn off..." The tail lights on the trailer were flickering, like they were blinking. Looked like "turn signal" type of blinking.
I slammed the brakes on and pulled back in behind the last car.
Well, the bastard didn't turn.. they kept chugging along at 45. Not much oncoming traffic.
I couldn't see the middle car (with the brake light) because the following model A was basically right on his tail...
I'd pull back out... there's that damn brake light... and there's a car on the horizon.. pulled back in.
I followed these traffic impediments for about 2 miles...
Finally got a clear shot and pulled back out to pass... went past these geezers... the offending A must have had one of two issues... either his brake pedal is touching the brake light switch and keeping the brake lights on, or he doesn't know that there are connections to both tail/running lights and brake lights on those things and you've got to wire them correctly... looked to me like the brake light LED was lit, instead of the running/tail light... That, and he's got a bad connection somewhere and the tail (running) lights on the trailer were constantly flickering.
The LED light displayed to the back was too bright, looked like he had the brakes applied all the time, which, when you go to pass someone, would give one pause to think that he's slowing down to make a left turn...
I was fuming mad... I'm sure just as mad as the other passenger vehicles and semi trucks in the caravan behind me for all that distance. I was probably a mile away from that traffic jam before I ever saw anyone else get out from behind them...
What does your rant have to do with my question? So this used up about 5 minutes of your life and you got fuming mad about it, you need to chill out.
 

Winterfalke

Stainless
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Location
Huron
I've spent a fair amount of time fighting with LED bulbs for automotive fitment, I can tell you they run the gamut from massively superior to downright idiotic. Buying name brand (Sylvania) bulbs of the appropriate type usually goes well, they can be a full radial light pattern and new ones tend to come with internal circuits so they work in either polarity. They also make festoon bulbs that are single direction just for overhead and marking lighting, I rather like those. Many also have internal resistors to be compliant with cars that had lamp sensing, that measure the bulbs resistance to tell you if it has burned out and needs replacing. Of course, many do not, and may easily be dumb emitters that are super directional and have terrible colors and worse lifespans. There are bulbs now that are a simple cob stuffed into a metal shell, a board with surface mount chips on both sides soldered into the metal can that interfaces with the socket. I like them for map lights and such, but they often need to be de-soldered and rotated to get the right direction. Some of the newer ones are just the LED package suspended in a clear plastic bulb shape, I'm suspicious of their lifespan due to the lack of cooling, but they should work and I really like the form factor. LED headlights, also tend to be a mixed bag and also go from overlight bright and blinding garbage to near xenon quality lamps, you get what you pay for. Hikari makes well reviewed lamps, they are my go to. Still important to aim them properly.
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
I've retrofitted a number of motorbikes with assorted LED lighting. Bonuses: rider can be pretty sure the rear driving, marker, and brake lights will be there when needed. Turn signal lamps, never fail. I've added small Sylvania driving lights, a pair only draw 1.8 amps, and are bright enough to get by with if the main H4 incandescent lamp fails out while riding at night. No downside.
 

EPAIII

Diamond
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Location
Beaumont, TX, USA
I will gladly pay you to have every other punch.

WHEN IS SOME SAFETY AGENCY GOING TO ADDRESS THIS?????



I'd like to take the guy - the inventor, if you will - who introduced LED lights in vehicles, and beat him to death. Nothing better than having some dope come at you with 50 Billion watt LED headlights (and of course his retarded fog lights on all the time). Or sitting behind someone with their LED brake lights and amber turn signals a-blarin'.
 








 
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