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OT--"Mexican" American Standard garbage

"less water per flush is a good idea."
Yes it is...but how many flushes does it take to clear a modern low water use toilet?
"a poorly designed low-flow toilet might require multiple flushes to empty"
As always...your mileage may vary.....
I'm pretty sure King of the Hill did an episode on this
 
"less water per flush is a good idea."
Yes it is...but how many flushes does it take to clear a modern low water use toilet?
"a poorly designed low-flow toilet might require multiple flushes to empty"
As always...your mileage may vary.....
I held off many years, keeping my 1960 three gallon per flush toilet because the first low flush ones did not work well. Same thing with led bulbs. I bought a case of one hundred 100w incandescents just before they were outlawed. Now both the new style low flow toilets and led bulbs work reasonably well.

The way they make the new style toilets work with less water is that they extended the internal trap built into the base to get a better suction. That makes the toilet base much longer than the old toilets as they now go nearly to the rear wall of the bathroom. Also the flapper hole is twice as big to dump water quickly and the flow is directed into the front of the bottom of the bowl so the fresh water pushes the waste into the trap.
 
While I like to buy 'merican when the product merits it, that is sadly not that often
Toto makes a good reliable toilet. Apparently they use like 2 flappers total. All you need to know is what color it is. Have 3 dual flush at home and they have required no service in 15 years.
 
I held off many years, keeping my 1960 three gallon per flush toilet because the first low flush ones did not work well. Same thing with led bulbs. I bought a case of one hundred 100w incandescents just before they were outlawed. Now both the new style low flow toilets and led bulbs work reasonably well.

The way they make the new style toilets work with less water is that they extended the internal trap built into the base to get a better suction. That makes the toilet base much longer than the old toilets as they now go nearly to the rear wall of the bathroom. Also the flapper hole is twice as big to dump water quickly and the flow is directed into the front of the bottom of the bowl so the fresh water pushes the waste into the trap.
All my observations and experience are purely subjective and not science based.
 
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I've actually found that modern toilets work way better than old ones. In the house I grew up in the rule was basically "don't flush anything down the toilet." Now my only rule is "don't flush oyster shells down the toilet."

As far as reliability goes, nothing beats an outhouse. Just watch out for the spiders.
 
I have some rental units too. I never buy plumbing anything from the big box stores. It’s always the cheapest crap they can find to sell. A good while ago i bought a 3/8 or 1/2” brass pipe plug at Lowes. It was totally machined and very cored out, even out in under the wrench flats, to get the brass content to a minimum, uncomfortably thin in every way. I Always buy this stuff at the local plumbing place or McMaster. Also i never replace a toilet, always rebuild them. Toilets were perfected 50-75 years ago functionally. It’s been downhill since then for many reasons.

The other thing about the box stores with plumbing and electrical stuff is that they only carry the stuff that sells a lot. This is 80-90% of what I need. The real plumbing and electrical supply houses carry the other 10-20%.
 
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Don't buy Goodyear tires at Walmart then. I learned this one the hard way. Saw the brand name. Figured that was good enough. Pure trash, over and over. Lots of other products that way too. They make a custom version, at a price point, for a specific buyer.
All tires manufactured are measured for quality even to the point of measuring dynamic force variation if the contact patch. Not a big surprise. What is a surprise is they are all sorted from best to worst. Best ones go to OEMs in a pecking order. The remaining are sent to dealers and outlets like Walmart.. so it is safe to say that you cannot purchase anything but a second in the dealer network from any dealer. This started over 50 years ago but applies only to tire designs that the OEMs use. For other designs you can expect to buy an average 50 percentile tire but could get the best. For the OEM group you should expect a 25 percentile and can never get 50 percentile or better. If you want the best quality tire you have to buy the caddy they are installed on.
 
Your septic tank doesn't give a damn about gallons per flush. It all goes out in the leach field.

What your septic does give a damn about is solids, including semi solids like grease from the kitchen(a note to those who are too lazy to hand wash dishes, or use a dishwasher without removing grease from whatever you're washing).

Mom bought Grama a new septic tank back in 1972, and as far as I know, it was never pumped until I did it around 4 years ago. It was near top, but still flowing fine. Only dishwasher on this place, in near on back to Statehood, has had 2 legs. And, prior to 1972 there was a grey water line out to under the Pecan trees. The leach field goes back to 1972.

Now............about that Made in Mexico crap................ Most of what you own is made overseas. Don't hate on the makers..........look to the C Suite assholes that made all this happen. Unless ya really really personally hate Mescins, and Chinese(shrug).

Edit: Changed "and" to " or".
 
All tires manufactured are measured for quality even to the point of measuring dynamic force variation if the contact patch. Not a big surprise. What is a surprise is they are all sorted from best to worst. Best ones go to OEMs in a pecking order. The remaining are sent to dealers and outlets like Walmart.. so it is safe to say that you cannot purchase anything but a second in the dealer network from any dealer. This started over 50 years ago but applies only to tire designs that the OEMs use. For other designs you can expect to buy an average 50 percentile tire but could get the best. For the OEM group you should expect a 25 percentile and can never get 50 percentile or better. If you want the best quality tire you have to buy the caddy they are installed on.
Does this extend to other products like condoms?
 
All tires manufactured are measured for quality even to the point of measuring dynamic force variation if the contact patch. Not a big surprise. What is a surprise is they are all sorted from best to worst. Best ones go to OEMs in a pecking order. The remaining are sent to dealers and outlets like Walmart.. so it is safe to say that you cannot purchase anything but a second in the dealer network from any dealer. This started over 50 years ago but applies only to tire designs that the OEMs use. For other designs you can expect to buy an average 50 percentile tire but could get the best. For the OEM group you should expect a 25 percentile and can never get 50 percentile or better. If you want the best quality tire you have to buy the caddy they are installed on.
At Michelin, all the best tested truck tires
went to the RV coach manufactures.
Grandpa wants a smooth ride in retirement.

-Doozer
 
I've actually found that modern toilets work way better than old ones. In the house I grew up in the rule was basically "don't flush anything down the toilet." Now my only rule is "don't flush oyster shells down the toilet."

As far as reliability goes, nothing beats an outhouse. Just watch out for the spiders.
From my rental property days...
Do not flush dental floss down the toilet.
Asking for a clog.
I didn't believe it either, but it is true.

-D
 
Your septic tank doesn't give a damn about gallons per flush. It all goes out in the leach field.

What your septic does give a damn about is solids, including semi solids like grease from the kitchen(a note to those who are too lazy to hand wash dishes, or use a dishwasher without removing grease from whatever you're washing).

Mom bought Grama a new septic tank back in 1972, and as far as I know, it was never pumped until I did it around 4 years ago. It was near top, but still flowing fine. Only dishwasher on this place, in near on back to Statehood, has had 2 legs. And, prior to 1972 there was a grey water line out to under the Pecan trees. The leach field goes back to 1972.

Now............about that Made in Mexico crap................ Most of what you own is made overseas. Don't hate on the makers..........look to the C Suite assholes that made all this happen. Unless ya really really personally hate Mescins, and Chinese(shrug).

Edit: Changed "and" to " or".
Go back and reread my post. I never used the phrase "septic tank." I said I was "on septic." And my septic system is 60 years old with dry wells rather than trenches and I have had some issues in the past.
 
As Walt Kelly had Pogo say seventy-five years ago,
"We have met the enemy and he is us."

I've visited factories in China, Viet Nam and Mexico. They will tell you, "We can make as good a product as anyone in the US. The problem is when your US buyers come here, they never ask, 'How good can you make it?' they always ask, 'How cheap can you make it?' You're getting what you ask for'"

jack vines
 
Your septic tank doesn't give a damn about gallons per flush. It all goes out in the leach field.

What your septic does give a damn about is solids, including semi solids like grease from the kitchen(a note to those who are too lazy to hand wash dishes, or use a dishwasher without removing grease from whatever you're washing).

Mom bought Grama a new septic tank back in 1972, and as far as I know, it was never pumped until I did it around 4 years ago. It was near top, but still flowing fine. Only dishwasher on this place, in near on back to Statehood, has had 2 legs. And, prior to 1972 there was a grey water line out to under the Pecan trees. The leach field goes back to 1972.

Now............about that Made in Mexico crap................ Most of what you own is made overseas. Don't hate on the makers..........look to the C Suite assholes that made all this happen. Unless ya really really personally hate Mescins, and Chinese(shrug).

Edit: Changed "and" to " or".
A well designed septic can last practically forever. A poorly designed one, especially in poor soil, can last no time at all. Grandmas septic will last as long as grandma, then when it really gets used, who knows.
A leaching field is designed[assuming it is designed] for gallons per day, so yes, it does care about gallons, but solids in the leaching field kill the leaching field
People complain because many new systems need a pump, but funny thing, a pump can make a system last forever.
Grandmas old system would drip drip drip the first 3 feet of pipe until it is dead and clogged, then the next 3 feet then...suddenly boom water in the yard. Lots of subdivision septics form the 50s and 60s did this in ten years or less.
A pump doses the whole system so it doesn't do that[comes from a septic installer]
Leach pits are uncommon these days because of distance to groundwater.
Hereabouts cess pools[no tank open bottomed porous structure] are an automatic failure
 
As Walt Kelly had Pogo say seventy-five years ago,
"We have met the enemy and he is us."

I've visited factories in China, Viet Nam and Mexico. They will tell you, "We can make as good a product as anyone in the US. The problem is when your US buyers come here, they never ask, 'How good can you make it?' they always ask, 'How cheap can you make it?' You're getting what you ask for'"

jack vines
Of course this is true, but is that true of you? There is a level of cheap that is not OK, and actually China is not the place for that anymore. India now, you can get some gawdawful crap from India
 
It's not true for me, as I'll do the research and pay for the best quality, pay once and be done with it

However, mass retailers know they're in a race to the bottom. Complaining about big box store quality is akin to complaining about airline seats being too close together. They're that way, because cheaper sells. The cheap seats always fill up first and those with more leg room are the last to sell, even though they're only slightly more money.

Retailers know the typical customer neither has the ability nor the time to make informed decisions, so they grab what is closest and cheapest.

jack vines
 
It's not true for me, as I'll do the research and pay for the best quality, pay once and be done with it

However, mass retailers know they're in a race to the bottom. Complaining about big box store quality is akin to complaining about airline seats being too close together. They're that way, because cheaper sells. The cheap seats always fill up first and those with more leg room are the last to sell, even though they're only slightly more money.

Retailers know the typical customer neither has the ability nor the time to make informed decisions, so they grab what is closest and cheapest.

jack vines
Yeah....closest and cheapest for the win.
Major big box "1.28 GPF High Efficiency Single Flush Round Toilet" $94.00
"TOTO"....which some say is the best.......$283. -- $438.
Betcha the $94. price point sells a lot of units......
 








 
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