OT: Motor Generator Experiment - Open Source Project :)

[Donkey Hotey]

They grant engineering and physics degrees to people like this (even advanced ones). Companies hire them. I've worked with them.

 

[Mr. Atoz]

I'm starting to think this is some kind of ChatGPT generated post. Something just does not feel quite right.

 

[awander]

 

[Donkey Hotey]

Some can even post (although they have not done so) lengthy scientific math equations to prove or disprove anything via theories and laws; however, your common person who is not a physicist nor engineer will likely never understand this "language".

I love the condescending tone when she has no idea who she's talking to or what the backgrounds are of various people on here.

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Yes, I think we've all seen the movie Aladdin at some point in our lives, but not sure what the genie has to do with this topic. I'm not here for riddles or guesses. It would be much more helpful if you simply provided a bit of explanation/education to help out or better yet lay out said experiment. Hook up 4 x 24vdc banks in series and you get 96V, which is easily charged from a 90-120V motor... Charging batteries from wind power, however, is not what this experiment is about. So please explain how you want to apply the 90-120V DC treadmill motor and supercapacitors to this experiment.

Several have mentioned trying experiments similar to this in their past, using this as some form to try and invalidate what I'm currently doing. I don't understand what the harm is that someone else wants to do the same thing you did to learn the same general things you have. This to me is not learning the hard way, it's making learning fun. The hard way is the boring way - reading book after book after book without ever applying what you've read in real life. Like the guy who can tell you how to fix a car, but has never turned a wrench in his life. Or the engineer who designed the car who put everything in the wrong place because he'll never have to work on it when it breaks down.

I've never seen the movie Aladdin, so no idea how, or if, my reference applies to that. And I'm not talking about using banks of 12v batteries to get 90v. Using a 90vdc motor to charge a 12v system works, it is up to you to figure out why, you are an experimenter, right?

You are not the first person to try this, doubt you will be the last. We are not keeping any secrets from you, there is no global conspiracy to hide the source of free energy from the masses. You are free to not listen to us, and to experiment until your heart and mind are content.

 

[PDW]

Is this shit still going on?

Even worse, I'm skimming through the replies. I must be REALLY bored today. Time to go out to the shop...

PDW

 

[GregSY]

In one book on Tesla, I read that he disparaged Edison greatly. Not because Edison ripped off everyone else, but because Edison had no engineering chops. For example, as an engineer, Tesla understood that if you are trying to make a light bulb filament, the physical properties of various materials would dictate their suitability. Steel might work, carbon thread might work, but cotton candy wouldn't. No point in even trying cotton candy, because anyone with brains would know it was a dead end at first glance. Edison was that idiot who eventually found a suitable material not by using his brains but by giving cotton candy a try along with a thousand other materials.

That's an illustration of why you don't try things that are obviously not gonna work.

 

[eKretz]

Thank you for some clarification on "OT"; however, I do not see where I can edit the first post of this thread to change the title. I can edit every other post I have made, but the edit button is not available to me on that post. I give permission to eKretz or any other moderator to change the title to contain OT in the subject line. I did not come here to create any issues for anyone, but rather to look for solutions to a problem as you have stated.

This thread was started to get answers to simple problems with a machine I am experimenting with. The first problem was how to get 12V from our generator. I cannot control how the people choose to respond. If you review all the posts there are maybe 2 responses offering any input to the problem I posted. This was not meant to become a conversation, but thus far most people just want to talk or spit venom instead of offering any practical suggestions for how to overcome problem #1. The gears and belts are on their way, as are a 24V generator, various step-down converters and a 6000rpm 31ZY drive motor.

Oh boy. When you join pretty much any message board, you need to read the rules and any sticky posts before posting. This is a message board that is related to manufacturing and machining. It is absolutely not an open forum to discuss whatever you want. If you have a specific technical question that you need help with and it's not related to machining, you may ask it in this section, but the thread needs an OT tag, per the rules. Read them. Follow them.

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Also, just FYI, moderators don't need your permission to make a change to your thread if a change is called for. I will add the OT tag for you this *one* time, but if you do it again, I will lock the thread with no warning. You get this one warning, that's it.

I'll let this go a little longer since it seems to be amusing some of you. Especially @jim rozen it would seem,

 

[Laverda]

Retired EE here with 37 years in the industry. I have not the time or desire to explain why what you are trying to do will never work. Many of the replies you have read already explained that.

Have you considered that if it were possible, why the power companies don't use this method to supply power to your home? Think of all the money they could save buy not having to burn coal or natural gas to make power.

And as for those that say Nicola Tesla had ideas like this that evil governments and companies tried to kill, well no they did not. Tesla was certainly a genius but many of his ideas never did work and still don't.

Too bad Michael Faraday is not still alive as maybe you would listen to him and give up this ridiculous idea?

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

It is your lucky day! Someone just posted the link below to our local FB page, it might be my lucky day too if the idea catches on, because I have the only lathes in town.. Neodymium magnets are whatcha need!

 

[NeuEnergy]

Oh boy. When you join pretty much any message board, you need to read the rules and any sticky posts before posting. This is a message board that is related to manufacturing and machining. It is absolutely not an open forum to discuss whatever you want. If you have a specific technical question that you need help with and it's not related to machining, you may ask it in this section, but the thread needs an OT tag, per the rules. Read them. Follow them.

PRACTICAL MACHINIST FORUM RULES AND GUIDELINES

Banning Members from Specific Forums We have recently noticed that there are reoccurring members that have been disturbing the peace regarding topics that are more prone in specific forums but still provide insights on forums geared towards machining. Therefore, we decided to create a ban that...

www.practicalmachinist.com

Also, just FYI, moderators don't need your permission to make a change to your thread if a change is called for. I will add the OT tag for you this *one* time, but if you do it again, I will lock the thread with no warning. You get this one warning, that's it.

I'll let this go a little longer since it seems to be amusing some of you. Especially @jim rozen it would seem,

Thank you kindly.

 

[ratbldr427]

While I appreciate all the discussion thus far, I would sincerely appreciate if someone could offer some advice as to what to purchase to modify the experiment in the attempt to get a minimum of 12V from the generator. My gut says "buy the 24V or higher model", but I would like some more input.

I do understand there are many opinions on this subject, most of which declare "free energy" as a farse, but the idea to me is intriguing, much as it was to Leonardo Da Vinci. We've had governments and corporations pumping billions into fusion energy for decades because many scientists believe there is a way to extract more energy from certain reactions than it requires to start them. A few such projects have even recently claimed a higher output than input, and rather than the world saying to those scientists "eh it violates the laws of physics", they just keep pumping more minds and money into said projects because they love the challenge and truly believe it's possible. Free energy already exists, trapped in those perfect springs called magnets. Their magnetic field in motion is what creates electricity - and we have many free ways to spin those magnets from hydroelectric to geothermal to wind. We also have solar which is another "free" form of energy.

Common sense says, "if what you're trying to do was possible, the whole world would already be doing it."

In many ways this is true; however, one could argue that human greed sometimes gets in the way of development. For example, are pharmaceutical companies going to want to cure AIDS if they can give you a pill that manages it for the rest of your life? Common sense says no. Capitalism says "no". The board of those companies says "no", as do the stockholder and the owner. So while the cure is certainly possible from a scientific standpoint, there are too many sociological factors against it which is likely why we still have no cure for AIDS over 50 years after the epidemic began.

Now are the original founders of electricity and combustion motors going to want someone giving you a free energy device when they make hundreds of billions every year selling you power and gasoline? There are debates on both sides of the equation wherein companies have gone public on the news showing their devices (Perendev Motor is one such example) and even filing patents for their inventions and doing their public fundraising... then these companies magically vanish from the face of the earth leaving the entire community to speculate or just say it was all made up from the start. It has happened over and over and over again in the past 50+ years. Some say they were killed, threatened or bought by big oil or power or any number of other conspiracy theories, others just say they were frauds who conned a lot of people. Youtube seems to say "the world is already doing this and you just haven't figured it out yet", but the lack of anyone capitalizing on such a development makes that seem a bit far-fetched in a world obsessed with views and likes and capitalizing from their "fanbase".

No matter what your opinion is on the subject, I started this thread to get ideas for a project, not to debate the fundamental laws of physics or any of our personal opinions on them, but rather to have scientific minds give rational advice based on solving specific problems. Problem 1: Getting at least 12V from my generator. If no one has any opinions on how to achieve this I will simply purchase a 24V motor and try again.

This for me is a science project. One I'm doing for personal enjoyment. I love design, I love testing, I love experiments and I love recording data, then using said data to try and solve problems or improve systems. It gives me something to do to keep my mind active even if this project never achieves the goal.

Read the labels on the motors or look up the spec's from the manufacturers . Find any that are 100% efficient . That should tell you all you need to know before you proceed.

 

[ratbldr427]

I mentioned two different types of drive configurations in my first post, direct-drive (where both shafts are connected end to end via a coupler) and transmission or gear-driven systems with or without belts. Attached you will see a photo of one of my 3D printed assemblies for this type of test. The problem is I cannot achieve 12V from the 12V generator on the other side of my "drive" motor. The max I have is 11V via the pairing in the image shown, so naturally I thought "we need more rotation". There are two ways to achieve that - 1) transmission to gear up the generator. 2) replacing the 12V 3500rpm drive motor with a 6000rpm drive motor.

One solution is the least friction possible. The other solution adds quite a bit of friction and extra rotating mass to the assembly (more work for the motor). Thus this is the part of the problem I am trying to resolve before continuing on with the experiment. We need 12V minimum from the generator to be able to theoretically create a closed-loop system. This is why I am also considering a 24V or higher generator.

You mentioned friction ? That don't jive with perpetual motion. This efficient thing is a real drag. Like all drive transmissions made none yet are 100% efficient. Plenty of info on gears, belts, balls whatever, but none are 100%.

 

[ratbldr427]

You mentioned friction ? That don't jive with perpetual motion. This efficient thing is a real drag. Like all drive transmissions made none yet are 100% efficient. Plenty of info on gears, belts, balls whatever, but none are 100%.

I meant to also say that what you are trying to do would be a lot simpler that if instead using every component that is less than 100% efficient. Like the people that come the shop and say , "All you gotta do" is use or invent a motor or generator that is more than 100% efficient! That way you wouldn't spend all your money on stuff that won't work.
Motors / generators that are more than 100% efficient is where the real money is! A motor that consumes 746 watts (1hp) and outputs 1492 watts!

 

[Bill D]

I liked the idea that excess solar energy would run massive air compressers in the day and the air would be stored underground. When needed the air would be bled off to run turbine generators. there was mention of reusing the heat of compression to reheat he air as it expanded inside the turbines.
maybe you can funnel the wind into storage ?
BilLD

 

[Bill D]

I believe when they captured the Nazi submarine at the Chicago museum it's batteries were flat. So they towed it with a ship and used the sub's propellers to run the generators on the sub to charge the batteries.
The navy ship probably had steam engines and not sails.
Bill D

 

[EPAIII]

Well, good luck with that with a small scale system.

Correct, my generators and motors cost me money, as did the inverter and anything else I'm going to use. It's only "free" in the sense that we're not paying anyone to harness the power once the system is built and installed, but as you mentioned nothing in this life is free. Now if the system in itself can generate more savings in power than the system cost... it means eventually you do get some truly "free" energy that cost you absolutely nothing and is even paying you after a while. Thus why Westinghouse and other large power companies have been around a long time and make a decent pile of change. It almost always costs less to build the system than the power it will generate to sell over its lifetime or we wouldn't have solar or wind or any form of power.

 

[Hodge]

You think that's bad? Wait until you hear about these 'men' that think they can get pregnant.

I've keep trying....

 

[Hodge]

Perpetual motion and free energy are two different things.

Perpetual motion is simply not allowed by the principles of physics. It can not happen and if it looks like it is happening, then some where, some how, there is some outside energy being directed into the system. There have been many clever ways of doing this, but they all are one form or another of a deception. And it is a complete waste of time to try to "duplicate" the demonstrations of perpetual motion that those internet videos claim to show. If you want the full explanation, then get a PhD in physics.

Free energy! Free energy is a term that is not well defined. If you mean not paying a power company, then HECK YES, there is free energy. I had a friend in Iowa who had a windmill that charged some batteries which he used for power. NO connection to the commercial power grid. He never paid a single cent for power. So free? Well...l...l...l, I wouldn't be so fast to say it was completely free. He had to erect a tower. He had to buy and install a generator. He had to buy batteries. He had to buy inverter(s). Oh, and did I mention the maintenance? All that equipment wears out and weathers and rusts and just falls apart from one thing or another. ETC! So free? Well not quite. But he did not pay a single cent to the power company.

Solar, wind, hydro, geo-thermal, etc. are all forms of "free" energy. but they really aren't free. Just as the power companies must pay for the structure that allows them to harvest energy from any of those sources, so must anyone who wants "free" energy.

To quote one of my favorite authors, "TINSTAAFL" (There is no such thing as a free lunch).

It would be far, far more productive to improve on the ways that energy is already being generated than to try to invent perpetual motion or free energy.

But I am probably wasting my words.

Good analysis...When i find myself daydreaming about such, my go to is using gravity to generate energy.

Unfortunately I never get past the daydream.
Hodge

 

[jim rozen]

"you wouldn't be wasting your time here trying to sell the tricks for a few bucks,"

a) who said it was a few bucks? I wa thinking 10,000 drachmas.

b) no, I'm just enjoying your hilarious posts. Please by all means keep up the churn so we can all keep kicking sand on your shoes. Haven't had this much fun since Altavoz or Termite.

c) who said they were tricks? I run my shop with free energy, no suprise you can't do this, you've got a closed mind and a remarkably rigid world-view. Condolances.