OT: Reliable crossover vehicle

[gustafson]

Which exactly coincides with the mid 90s to mid 2000s where vehicles had evolved enough technologically to be comfortable and reliable without all the excessive failure prone gadgets.

Oh, the other thing was they had not yet designed out the overbuilding required by inferior processes and materials. 30 some years ago my buddy showed me and article about how ball bearings at that point were an order of magnitude better than the bearings 20 years before due to improvements in vacuum furnaces among other things. In the mid 90's they were still designing things with a factor for bearings that would wear out x percent faster[or more accurately, x percent would fail much sooner]
By the early mid 2000s, they realized you don't have to build that factor in because[for instance] bearings are going to fall into a much tighter quality distribution

And THEN they started buying bearings in China, which brought a whole new meaning to the concept of quality curve.

Lots of old dudes will be 'Stuff in the 60's was made so much better'
No, it was total crap, but the stuff that is still working now from the 60's was the total right of that quality bell curve, Lots of stuff failed just like it does now, but it was so expensive we had appliance repair men and tv repair men.
Scott is dead on, the 90s was the peak, where design was good and they had not yet worked out how to design out every bit of overbuilding, and sourcing routines from the toy industry had not yet pervaded real manufacturing

 

[GregSY]

The 60's stuff was better in many ways. Not all ways, but many. Most of all, it represented what is still probably the height of automaking - it was an era when cars were generally made as well as could be made given the technology of the day. Now, cars are made for all sorts of wrong reasons.

If you put a 60's car on the highway and start driving, you'll soon realize that a modern vehicle is not much better....certainly not 60 years' and billions of dollars in R&D better. What has improved are 'systems' like AC, radio, and such. But the car itself? Nope.

Then, let's not overlook that a 60's car is a machine....one that can be modified and repaired with relative ease. A modern vehicle is a soul-less pile of electronics and controls you aren't 'allowed' to touch.

Proof? Today, many cars from the 60's are highly sought after....in 30 years, no one alive will be hunting the junkyards to fix up a '93 Taurus. Modern vehicles are are appliances.

 

[plastikdreams]

Someone should've mentioned that to Chevy...

The tierods on the gm trucks are very weak. There are companies that make some beefier units. I chose to sleeve mine, never had an issue.

The other issue with them is half shafts, all the guys cranking the torsion bars to get a little bit of lift put them at such a great angle that they would fail very prematurely.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Nobody mentioned British cars.

I’ll get my coat.

Regards Tyrone.

 

[plastikdreams]

Nobody mentioned British cars.

I’ll get my coat.

Regards Tyrone.

Cause they all suck

 

[FJsapper]

Stop. You need a Land Cruiser.

 

[plastikdreams]

Stop. You need a Land Cruiser.View attachment 387999

I see you have some interco trxus tires on one...

 

[FJsapper]

I see you have some interco trxus tires on one...

I’m going out on a limb but I’ll claim the best 16” rim serious off road tire out there that can be daily driven. Quiet as a mouse…

Oh, those are 37’s, I’ll go 40’s when they wear out. Also, I drive to the trail unlike all the Jeepers on trailers….

 

[plastikdreams]

I’m going out on a limb but I’ll claim the best 16” rim serious off road tire out there that can be daily driven. Quiet as a mouse…

Oh, those are 37’s, I’ll go 40’s when they wear out. Also, I drive to the trail unlike all the Jeepers on trailers….

I had m16s on my truck...loud didn't even begin to describe them. If I get another truck I'll stuff em on it though, they were amazing tires. Snow rain mud...didn't matter they clawed through it...

My wedding band looks like a super swamper bogger lol.

 

[Scruffy887]

Does a Porsche Panny Sport Turismo count as a crossover? Turbo with AWD and 550 HP?

 

[GregSY]

Around 2008, one of our mid-level managers 'Ken' bought a new Porsche Cayenne GT. Not the Turbo, even. Our CEO flew into town for a day, and we wound up taking Ken's Porsche to go talk to some customers. As we were driving, the CEO commented, "Nice car. How much did it cost?" Ken puffed up a little and said, "Well, the base price was $70K but after I optioned it up it was a little over $90K..."

Now, I knew from some co-workers that our CEO was very wealthy, but also drove a 10 year old Puegot (he was French) and disliked the public display of wealth.

Not long after, Ken was let go....

 

[jim rozen]

"If you put a 60's car on the highway and start driving, you'll soon realize that a modern vehicle is not much better..."

With some caveats - as a recent driver of a 60s car, 1) EFI vs carbs. ever see carb icing? Easier starting in sub-zero temps too. 2) air bags + seat belts beats seat belts only. Also the 68 chevy I drove had two seatbelt options that year: lap belts OR shoulder belts but NOT both. Former owner had put a modern 4 speed automatic in it, stock was the 2-speed slip-n-slide auto. Modern auto transms a good deal better than the 60s stuff. Coil-over plug better than distibutors, fewer moving parts.

 

[Comatose]

"If you put a 60's car on the highway and start driving, you'll soon realize that a modern vehicle is not much better..."

With some caveats - as a recent driver of a 60s car, 1) EFI vs carbs. ever see carb icing? Easier starting in sub-zero temps too. 2) air bags + seat belts beats seat belts only. Also the 68 chevy I drove had two seatbelt options that year: lap belts OR shoulder belts but NOT both. Former owner had put a modern 4 speed automatic in it, stock was the 2-speed slip-n-slide auto. Modern auto transms a good deal better than the 60s stuff. Coil-over plug better than distibutors, fewer moving parts.

Also, if you crash in a modern car you are unlikely to die. Designed in crumple zones, less fatal steering wheels, etc. Which is nice.

 

[GregSY]

In the 60's, there was a saying...'safety doesn't sell'. It reflected the simple fact that no one gave two shits about safety,,,they wanted HP, looks, and reliability. The things that make a car a car.

Yes, it's true that today's cars are safer. It's also true that safety sells. Stop and consider that for a while and ask yourself if it actually makes us better as a society, or simply reflects that we've become much softer and more afraid.

I truly think we've been bred into a society (in the USA) where people will give up anything - all of their rights - if only someone (the government is the popular fallback) will take care of them and ensure they will always have fun times, hot dance moves, and never, ever have to die. Meanwhile, the Chinese are sharpening their knives for the Big Feast.

 

[Comatose]

I mean, today's cars are objectively better. Faster, better handling, better efficiency, better ride, while also not killing people from routine accidents.

But if you want to argue intangibles, that is your business. I'm not sure being decapitated by a steering wheel builds character or is a right, myself.

 

[jim rozen]

"simply reflects that we've become much softer and more afraid. "

I think this is best exemplified as the phobes who drive the Big-Ass SUVs because big is safe and being up high is safe and driving a giant ford EXPLODER is safe. With 4WD and traction control because that makes you SAFE. Oddy those are the first cars to found upside down in the median when there's a half inch of snow on the ground.

I don't thing BIG GOVERNMENT (favorite Phobe term) has doodly-squat to do with any of this. It's market driven. Maybe YOU would mandate that nobody could drive a prius. But you'd have to have your big bad goobernment pass a law to that effect. Sigh. Get over it dude.

 

[Bill D]

Hollywood cowboy Tom Mix died in his cord convertible when he slammed on the brakes and the suitcase in the back seat flew forward and did an Isadora Duncan. No modern safety system would prevent that but I do sometimes buckle big packages into the seat.
Bill D

 

[gustafson]

The 60's stuff was better in many ways. Not all ways, but many. Most of all, it represented what is still probably the height of automaking - it was an era when cars were generally made as well as could be made given the technology of the day. Now, cars are made for all sorts of wrong reasons.

If you put a 60's car on the highway and start driving, you'll soon realize that a modern vehicle is not much better....certainly not 60 years' and billions of dollars in R&D better. What has improved are 'systems' like AC, radio, and such. But the car itself? Nope.

Then, let's not overlook that a 60's car is a machine....one that can be modified and repaired with relative ease. A modern vehicle is a soul-less pile of electronics and controls you aren't 'allowed' to touch.

Proof? Today, many cars from the 60's are highly sought after....in 30 years, no one alive will be hunting the junkyards to fix up a '93 Taurus. Modern vehicles are are appliances.

Nah
I take none of that
cars of the 60's are highly sought after because they all rusted away in 5 years, and guys who grew up with fond memories are now CEOs and can afford to overpay. Family 1966 Country squire, no memories of it not being rotten. My first car was a 1970 and had been painted twice and full of bondo from rot.
They were mass produced to a price point and a profit margin, period.
They could not hold a candle to anything modern from a reliability standpoint.
Two things to my mind changed cars.
Japan, no explanation needed
Plymouth Volare. They rotted so fast that the blowback changed how cars were designed. Cars designed prior to about 1977: rotboxes. Post, not so much. Think of the 'downsized' rectangular GM cars that came out in 1977 or so, they did not rust away like the earlier ones. Oh eventually, sure, but not in 4 years

WE watched a little black and white portable on top of our 25 inch console because it needed a picture tube. It was maybe 13 years old when we sold that house, years after it was fixed;and I have a 46" LCD that older than that sitting downstairs that works fine but no one wants

GO ahead, dream all you want about the good old days
Sure I like 1960's cars too, but they are not better quality, especially when you consider them from a MTBF perspective.

Oh and driving?
OMG no, handling, NVH, stopping, cornering, 1960's cars are horrid horrid cars. Yeah, yeah, too much junk in new cars but the fundamentals of the vehicle are better in every way

 

[gustafson]

.

Yes, it's true that today's cars are safer. It's also true that safety sells. Stop and consider that for a while and ask yourself if it actually makes us better as a society, or simply reflects that we've become much softer and more afraid.

Yes it does make us better as a society, because we are not dead

 

[Scottl]

The 60's stuff was better in many ways. Not all ways, but many. Most of all, it represented what is still probably the height of automaking - it was an era when cars were generally made as well as could be made given the technology of the day. Now, cars are made for all sorts of wrong reasons.

If you put a 60's car on the highway and start driving, you'll soon realize that a modern vehicle is not much better....certainly not 60 years' and billions of dollars in R&D better. What has improved are 'systems' like AC, radio, and such. But the car itself? Nope.

Then, let's not overlook that a 60's car is a machine....one that can be modified and repaired with relative ease. A modern vehicle is a soul-less pile of electronics and controls you aren't 'allowed' to touch.

Proof? Today, many cars from the 60's are highly sought after....in 30 years, no one alive will be hunting the junkyards to fix up a '93 Taurus. Modern vehicles are are appliances.

With suspension and brake upgrades a lot of those 60s cars become essentially "modern", and engine options range from aftermarket throttle body injection upgrade to swapping in a late model performance motor.

Many years ago I had a late 60s musclecar and was amazed at the improvement in handling just by switching to radial tires, which at the time were not the most common type.