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OT: The rotary motor that powers life

Joe Gwinn

Stainless
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Location
Boston, MA area
We don't generally think that living things use free rotation for much of anything, but there is a striking contrary example, ATP Synthase, which is the primary producer of the energy-transfer molecule underlying almost all cellular living things. And it has a rotor and stator (by different names) and is powered by electricity (proton concentration gradients).

Humans make and use about 60 Kg of ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate) a day. Each ATP Synthase rotor spins at up to 20,000 rpm. ATP Synthase is about 10 nm (nanometers) in diameter and 20 nm in length, far too small to see with an optical microscope.

Anyway, these videos show it all quite clearly, without too much biology bafflegab.

ATP synthase: Structure and Function - YouTube (ATP synthase: Structure and Function, Stewart Lab)

ATP synthase in action - YouTube (ATP synthase in action - HarvardX)

The other rotary motor in living systems powers the flagella of many bacteria. The ATP Synthase motor may well have evolved from the flagellum motor.

Machine content - it's a motor, with cam-driven components! Who knew. The development process lasted aeons.
 

boslab

Titanium
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Location
wales.uk
Looks like intelligent design to be, difficult to visualise any accident arriving at that
Interesting, thanks
Mark
 

GregSY

Diamond
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Location
Houston
How dare you questions scientists! If they say you use 60KG per day, then you do. Only a nutcase would dare ask for proof or clarification.
 

Joe Gwinn

Stainless
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Location
Boston, MA area
Is this correct? that's about over 130 Lbs.

! I only weigh 135 lbs, so I make and use myself daily?

Yes, the 60 Kg is correct. The same ADP molecule gains a P to become ATP (which takes energy), goes to the point of use where it is degraded back to ADP + P (releasing energy), then back to the ATP Synthase, where the cycle repeats. ATP is an energy transfer medium, and not a consumable fuel.

 

Milland

Diamond
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Location
Hillsboro, New Hampshire
It's likely more accurate to state that it's a combination/subtraction process that occurs over a 1000 times per "chemically available units" each day, so rather than saying it's ~60Kg of manufacture per day, it's more like 1000-1500 "recharges" of the same basic components each day.

Adenosine Triphosphate - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

From the link:

"Normally cellular ATP concentration is maintained in the range of 1 to 10 mmol/L, with a normal ratio of ATP/ADP of approximately 1000. Totally quantity of ATP in an adult is approximately 0.10 mol/L. Approximately 100 to 150 mol/L of ATP are required daily, which means that each ATP molecule is recycled some 1000 to 1500 times per day. Basically, the human body turns over its weight in ATP daily."


[Note: not a biophysicist/biochemist, feel free to do your own Googling and come to the conclusion that horse dewormer is the answer. To everything.]
 

Joe Gwinn

Stainless
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Location
Boston, MA area
Bacterial flagellum motor

The other rotary motor in living systems powers the flagella of many bacteria. The ATP Synthase motor may well have evolved from the flagellum motor.

Here are some videos of the bacterial flagellum motor. There is some resemblance in role and mechanism - the core seems evolutionarily conserved. Something like 50% of bacteria have at least one flagellum.

bacterial flagellum - YouTube (bacterial flagellum, Biology Help)

The Bacterial Flagellar Motor - YouTube (The Bacterial Flagellar Motor, Stewart Lab)

Mechanically, the thing to note is that at the scale of bacteria, inertia and gravity have little effect. What dominates is viscosity. For a bacterium, they are in effect moving through a viscous fluid. If the flagellum stops rotating, the bacterium immediately stops.
 

GregSY

Diamond
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Location
Houston
"Is thinking really that scary for you? "

This, coming from the guy who wears a mask in the shower and no longer uses offensive words like 'spirit', 'grandfather', or 'Christmas'....
 

Milland

Diamond
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Location
Hillsboro, New Hampshire
"Is thinking really that scary for you? "

This, coming from the guy who wears a mask in the shower and no longer uses offensive words like 'spirit', 'grandfather', or 'Christmas'....

Greg, you should not be proud of denying reason. If you are religious, why despoil the greatest gift your god gave you - the ability to think?

As it is, you worship a monster and purposely lobotomize yourself.

Why is that?
 

mattthemuppet

Hot Rolled
Joined
Apr 22, 2016
Location
San Antonio


Here are some videos of the bacterial flagellum motor. There is some resemblance in role and mechanism - the core seems evolutionarily conserved. Something like 50% of bacteria have at least one flagellum.

bacterial flagellum - YouTube (bacterial flagellum, Biology Help)

The Bacterial Flagellar Motor - YouTube (The Bacterial Flagellar Motor, Stewart Lab)

Mechanically, the thing to note is that at the scale of bacteria, inertia and gravity have little effect. What dominates is viscosity. For a bacterium, they are in effect moving through a viscous fluid. If the flagellum stops rotating, the bacterium immediately stops.

They're also both powered by a proton gradient, though in bacteria that is generated by hydrolysis of ATP whereas in mitochondria the gradient is used to generate ATP. I seem to remember it takes ~22ATP to turn a flagellum once - moving around is very energy intensive, even for bacteria.

Another interesting point is that in bacteria that proton gradient is maintained across its cell membrane, so they lose their protons to the surrounding medium. That's probably one of the reasons why bacteria have so many ways of killing other bacteria, so they can protect "their" protons.
 

GregSY

Diamond
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Location
Houston
I always approach talking to a Biden voter with great apprehension. On one hand, I feel the need to give aid; much as one would rush to a gory car crash to drag out the bleeding victim before the gas tank explodes. On the other hand, I know it is a hopeless situation and a waste of my time.

So anyway....why is it OK to question science when we're talking about how much energy is consumed (microscopic details that no one can even see or verify, no less) but when a person questions the science behind wearing a retarded mask or getting multiple vaccine shots....they're fools?

Liberal thought...lots of nasty, no depth, no accountability. A normal human understands that science, by definition, is about questioning.

I'm gonna have to let you stay in the car and burn.
 

thermite

Diamond
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Location
Sol, Terra
Looks like intelligent design to be, difficult to visualise any accident arriving at that
Interesting, thanks
Mark

Yah welll. The battle over intelligent design as OPPOSED TO evolution (or the reverse..) is a foolish one to begin with.

The "opposed" part doesn't fit.

'Intelligent" OR foolish beyond belief..."design" is nearly always followed by .. 'evolution'.

Why would a galactic farmer, seed ship Ark commander. supreme being, older race, network of advanced computers, or even the poor celestial collitch student who designed our entire universe as his "grad thesis"... and did not necessarily even get a passing grade, BTW .. NOT use evolution .. as a "process resource"?

You expected a "supreme being" with other s**t to do would sit on his ass and watch paint dry? Cross-link each molecule by HAND?

Or move on to other priorities ....trusting that it would do what it was meant to do?

"Just my not so humble opinion." But this ENTIRE UNIVERSE .. is not the first rodeo for.. "whomever or whatever".

Not even close to "first".
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
I looked at the title and thought it was the rotary MOWER that powers life .......mainly because I have a fixation with long grass,because Im getting new neighbours,and the agent told me if I dont cut my grass,they will complain to the council,cause thats the kind of people they are.....Ive been scouring fbook for rider mowers,and the damn things sell within minutes of being listed.
 

thermite

Diamond
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Location
Sol, Terra
OT: motor / mowers NOT

I looked at the title and thought it was the rotary MOWER that powers life .......mainly because I have a fixation with long grass,because Im getting new neighbours,and the agent told me if I dont cut my grass,they will complain to the council,cause thats the kind of people they are.....Ive been scouring fbook for rider mowers,and the damn things sell within minutes of being listed.

Spent too DAMNED much of my life trying to beat the shit out of grass in a foolish effort to educate grass - to cease growing at a certain height.

Grass was like Elliot Roosevelt's outlook on war. He just didn't give a damn.

Grass will not learn? Took me too damned, long but with age, I finally did learn!

Read the ordnances. Found GRAVEL was legit for our required permeability & erosion control rules.

On but 60% of a .23 Acre corner lot not already covered by a 5 BR 3-level split, sidewalks, carport, patio, two driveways?

Hauled forty TONS of crappy soil AWAY.

Had FIFTY tons of various gravels, functional and decorative delivered.

The several hardy, "zone compatible" no-maintenance ground covers happy to colonize gravels were selected such that all are genetically limited to 2 to 7 inches max natural height.

"Bill? You are cultivating WEEDS!"

"Not so! Micro clover, Thyme, Purselane, Veronica Repens, English Ivy and the others are NOT weeds. Ornamentals or even edibles, rather. GRASS is the G-D invasive WEED!"

The local Nazi SS can't fine nor hammer with quadruple-priced forced contract cutting until TWELVE inches, regardless of what it is that gets above 12 inches.

Doesn't look like other sheeple's expensively watered, fertilized, weed-killer laced and cross-mowed, aereated and power raked wannabee golf green lawns?

No. It sure as f**k does NOT!

But "that's a feature, not a bug".


Enforcement guy - New one, given I outlasted one, got the immediate previous one FIRED - is human after all.

Larfin' his bureaucratic arse off in revenge at the nuisance callers:

"They call, I have to tell them:"

"Sorry, we already know about that property."
"Owner is fully within his rights."
"Nothing can be done."

"The County cannot regulate UGLY"

:D
 








 
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