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OT: What To Do When the Dealer Gives Up?

that's odd. i've been racing two stroke dirt bikes for over 40 years. back in the day i used avgas. never a problem. these days it's not easy to get so i get fuel from the speed shops and mix it (i don't wring it quite so hard these days).

40 years ago, 100 LL avgas was fairly new on the market and 80/87 avgas was plentiful. If you were running 80/87, it would have a lot less lead.
 
The only Stihls I've encountered weren't running.

I'd never buy one.

My Husqvarna always starts, and the MacCulloch I found on large item trash day (still in the carry case) just needed a bar and chain.

I do understand that the pros might sell them at the end of each season, but for whatever reason, my experience with Stihl is watching someone struggle to start it.

Well, I think it just depends on the saw. Most all chainsaws can be troublesome to start, 2-strokes are just finicky. IMO, Stihl makes a mighty fine saw and if you've ever taken one apart you can compare the quality of parts to other manufacturers. Their pro line is second to none, IMO.

This is coming from a person who favors Huskys also. Huskys aren't bullet proof. No saw is...

In fact that reminds me, I have a small Husky 336 that has cracked fuel lines but requires almost a complete disassemble to get to the lines, so it sits unused, waiting to get the lines replaced...
 
use Avgas in AIRPLANES

40 years ago, 100 LL avgas was fairly new on the market and 80/87 avgas was plentiful. If you were running 80/87, it would have a lot less lead.

good info Steve. yes, its just stupid to think Avgas is some kind of golden unicorn-holy grail shit.

or that the "higher the octane the better"

or that "the more lead the better"

use the fuel the engine is designed for, pretty simple, really.

oh, and by the way, lead doesn't burn, so it's just not a good thing to put in FUEL unless absolutely necessary.
(not to mention that putting it in auto gas by the megaton to be spread into the air everywhere was one of the stupidest things that humans have ever done)
 
I have seen gas just a few months old, cause exact same problem in more than 1 saw..

Dirty aircleaner will affect starting, reduced air flow means reduced fuel pulse for diaphram pump...

I would use av gas where it supposed to be used...

Go get some racing fuel.... Put on your 5 lb expansion chamber, custom ground chain, and play with the big wood chip making boys...
 
I have an 032 that says "made in west germany". My father used his since new without any trouble with proper maintenance so I bought myself one used. Have to turn the jet screws in and out to clear them out in the spring but no issues. The new saws may have more power and be lighter; but not as reliable or as good as plastic used in the handles.

Ps- I only run 92 octane without ethanol.
 
good info Steve. yes, its just stupid to think Avgas is some kind of golden unicorn-holy grail shit.

or that the "higher the octane the better"

or that "the more lead the better"

use the fuel the engine is designed for, pretty simple, really.

oh, and by the way, lead doesn't burn, so it's just not a good thing to put in FUEL unless absolutely necessary.
(not to mention that putting it in auto gas by the megaton to be spread into the air everywhere was one of the stupidest things that humans have ever done)

"use the fuel the engine is designed for, pretty simple, really."

Well, that sounds really nice.

Tractors from the 60s, mower and other four stroke engines from the 70s. These were all designed to run on leaded fuel. Not for the octane boost, as they don't require an octane more than the low 80s, but to keep the valve seats from burning up. I suppose the answer is to replace all those valve seats with new hardened seats, right?

Two stroke chain saws from the 60s through the early 90s. No problem with unleaded there, as there are no valve seats to worry about. But they were designed to run on gasoline, not on a gasoline/ethanol mix. The new engines are designed to run on the gasoline/ethanol mixes, and that's what I use in my cars. But I've gotten tired of tearing down my mower carburetor every year to clean out the white deposits that seem to be caused by the ethanol. With ethanol-free gas - no problem.

So I guess I use the avgas not because it sounds cool or has a higher octane rating - realizing that that higher octane actually costs me a bit of power - but because it more closely approximates the fuel those engines were in fact designed for.

It may be easy to find ethanol-free gas in New York, but in Maine there are 15 places that sell it. A few of them are marinas, but most are - guess what? - airports. Now, there's Alaska - all their gas is ethanol-free. I wonder why?

Maybe you don't mind adding crap to gasoline to counteract the crap the sellers put in it. Or maybe you don't mind paying $6.95 a quart for the ethanol-free pre-mix at the hardware store. I do mind.

If you really object to the lead released by burning leaded gas, go after the aircraft users. They use a hell of a lot more than do the people who use it in chain saws.
 
not "going after" anyone

I'm not "going after" anyone. I don't think mandating ethanol in fuel is a good idea either, turning rich topsoil into expensive but subsidized fuel is a terrible idea. save it for food, it's precious.

I do wonder if the problems unleaded are supposed to cause weren't part of a propaganda campaign from the majors who didn't want to have to change their refinery and supply systems. could be totally wrong on that. is crap buildup on seats a good thing?they should have been hardened to begin with.. but it could be true that lead "saves" them..so, as I said "use the fuel.."
 
The only Stihls I've encountered weren't running.

I'd never buy one.

My Husqvarna always starts, and the MacCulloch I found on large item trash day (still in the carry case) just needed a bar and chain.

I do understand that the pros might sell them at the end of each season, but for whatever reason, my experience with Stihl is watching someone struggle to start it.

I agree 100 percent. Never had a problem with many Husqvarnas. I was wandering around a flea market and saw a small Stihl chainsaw. I bought it to limb about thirty trees. It would start and run fine. Sit it down for 5 minutes to pick up the limbs and the saw would start but would take 5 minutes at idle before it would rev back up. I went to a John Deere dealer and bought a new one of the same model. Same damn thing. Took it back after 3 days under warranty . They charged me $58.00 and told me it had water in the gas from ethanol. It was their gas from when they demoed it starting. I contacted Stihl and filed a claim and nothing. After the dealer tinkering with it now it takes at least 50-60 pulls to maybe start and then same problem. Never again.
 
TEL was mostly an octane booster. Prevents pre-ignition which means higher CR and more specific power. Valve seats and
valves go away over time, and need to be replaced, a fact. These days proper compustion chamber design has pretty much
eliminated the need for lead in fuel.

Older aviation engines have large hemispherical combustion chambers and need to use leaded fuel and dual plugging to
prevent pre-ignition while having decent power per pound. Basically you're looking at legacy motors that are being held
over because of the problems in private aviation. The fleet is badly aged because nobody's building many planes these days.

Ethanol? Ethanol in fuel is basically a agribusiness boon-doggle. It costs more energy to produce the ethanol than is
recovered using it. Without politically-driven subsidy, it would no longer exist. See also the MTBE boon-doggle.
 
I'm not "going after" anyone. I don't think mandating ethanol in fuel is a good idea either, turning rich topsoil into expensive but subsidized fuel is a terrible idea. save it for food, it's precious.

I do wonder if the problems unleaded are supposed to cause weren't part of a propaganda campaign from the majors who didn't want to have to change their refinery and supply systems. could be totally wrong on that. is crap buildup on seats a good thing?they should have been hardened to begin with.. but it could be true that lead "saves" them..so, as I said "use the fuel.."

The refineries were already producing gas with tetraethyl lead as an additive, so it was actually the mandating of lead-free gas that caused them problems. And not all of the new additives were as benign as even tetraethyl lead - you might want to read up on the effects of MTBE on your drinking water.

The lead does not build up on the valve seats. It lubricates them and helps in the transfer of heat from the exhaust valve to the head, and prevents the erosion of the seats due to the microscopic transfer of hot metal. The engines were made to run on leaded gas, and that's why people use it.

Now, you might argue that those engines were also made to run on single weight non-detergent oils - and you'd be right. People have switched to the multi grade detergent oils because they are better, without - and this is the important part - without any serious detrimental properties. Not so with the new gasolines. It's those detrimental properties of unleaded gas in older engines, and of ethanol mixes in engines that were not designed for it, that bite you.

"they should have been hardened to begin with" If you really believe that, then you probably also believe that every auto built within the last 20 years should have been designed to run on E85 or whatever fuel the feds decide to mandate next.
 
I agree 100 percent. Never had a problem with many Husqvarnas. I was wandering around a flea market and saw a small Stihl chainsaw. I bought it to limb about thirty trees. It would start and run fine. Sit it down for 5 minutes to pick up the limbs and the saw would start but would take 5 minutes at idle before it would rev back up. I went to a John Deere dealer and bought a new one of the same model. Same damn thing. Took it back after 3 days under warranty . They charged me $58.00 and told me it had water in the gas from ethanol. It was their gas from when they demoed it starting. I contacted Stihl and filed a claim and nothing. After the dealer tinkering with it now it takes at least 50-60 pulls to maybe start and then same problem. Never again.

That's pretty funny. Stihl is crap because you bought used saw at a flea market, and the dealer fucked you over. Nice. Your Stihl dealer may be crap, but that is about all I learned from your story. The JD Dealer I go to sells Stihl saws too, but would I ever take a saw there for work? Nope. Not their core expertise.

The fallers and logging contractors around here run both. Most have some of each. If there was a real reason, esp a reliability reason, to have one over the other, they would drop the unreliable brand like a hot rock, and yet...they don't. The local saw shop sells and services both. About a fifty percent split.

Maybe there is something to that.

I would say that at least 90 percent of the time some one starts spewing about one brand being junk and another not, they have not got a clue. Both Husky and Stihl have had the odd dud roll off the lines, too. But no more one than the other either.

I have seen enough blown up saws of both brands, to say that if the owner does not take proper care of them, then they are not going to give reasonable service. Leave it sit over the year with crap gas in it, and expect it to work? Yeah, all the factory's fault, right? Nope.

Cheers
Trev
 
No disrespect, but its a chain saw, if you can't get it to work, maybe you should either learn how to use google and fix things or go back to a saw with out a engine and a handle.

Either way, relying on something your too dim to fix seams a real shit approach to staying warm in the colder times of the year!

As to 50-60 pulls to start, again, buy a saw with out the engine and you probably would be exerting less effort!

Alternatively try this,

Apprentice trying to bump off the stihl saw - YouTube
 
No disrespect, but its a chain saw, if you can't get it to work, maybe you should either learn how to use google and fix things or go back to a saw with out a engine and a handle.

Either way, relying on something your too dim to fix seams a real shit approach to staying warm in the colder times of the year!

As to 50-60 pulls to start, again, buy a saw with out the engine and you probably would be exerting less effort!

Alternatively try this,

Apprentice trying to bump off the stihl saw - YouTube

Well, I can say from some experience, that what went on in that video is a great way to convince the apprentice to doubt every instruction he gets from you, for about as long a he knows you.

Although, I am reminded of an old joke, the punchline of which is "What the hell is that noise?" :)

Cheers
Trev
 
No disrespect, but its a chain saw, if you can't get it to work, maybe you should either learn how to use google and fix things or go back to a saw with out a engine and a handle.

Either way, relying on something your too dim to fix seams a real shit approach to staying warm in the colder times of the year!

As to 50-60 pulls to start, again, buy a saw with out the engine and you probably would be exerting less effort!

Alternatively try this,

Apprentice trying to bump off the stihl saw - YouTube

No disrespect but I know how to use chainsaws and how to fix them. When you buy something new and have a problem with it; it is reasonable to expect the dealer to make it right under warranty. When that does not happen and a claim is filed with the manufacture, I would at least expect a response. Why have an avenue to file a claim if you are not going to respond? I said I would never buy Stihl again because of the lack of support from the manufacture. I have owned their saws and other equipment in the past but my personal preference now and in the future is Husqvarna.

My apologies to the OP.

Pine and Maple from the last few days. If the metadata is there check the dates.
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