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Our new American pacemaker lathe - Ongoing cleanup.

Panza

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Lillehammer, Norway
Our 1962 American Pacemaker arrived last week. It needs quite a bit of TLC and I'll probably need some assistance in the various parts of rebuild and cleanup.
I started another thread in "US heavy Iron" before I got it but the topic is "American tool works Bulletin 25A ?" so it is not so easy to see there is rebuild info and more in there. I think it is more in the spirit of the Antique section, even if it probably still can peel off steel with the best of them.

It is a 14x54 B-type. Seems to have been on a navy ship by the spray paint and list of operators.
Here it is on it's skid:
52600d1337803045-american-tool-works-bulletin-25a-pace-000.jpg


It has a few issues I have noticed before wiring it up:
- Missing 2 tailstock clamp nuts, the bolts are there though.
- Missing taper attachment clamp bolts and plates (at the rear of the TA).
- Missing the bracket for the taper attachment (most critical).
- Missing 2 of the bolts that fasten the motor to the motor-plate.
- Missing height adjustment bracket, pin and nuts that adjusts height of motor from the floor.
- Missing adjustable feet. I can't see how many there is supposed to be but I think I have 1 (picture will be coming).
- Apron handwheel very messed up, but still working.

Here is the taper attachment with(out) the missing nuts and clamps.
52602d1337803051-american-tool-works-bulletin-25a-pace-002.jpg


I have a hope that the guys I bought it from will send me most of the missing parts.
I got a quote from B&K for most of the parts, and I can't fault the service, but the prices makes me :bawling:

First batch of questions:
1. How do you get the tailstock ram feed to re-engage again after you have moved it all the way out of engagement ?
2. I have sent request to Boston Gear Works and Martin Sprocket with request about metric change gears. Is there anyone else worth contacting ?

If anyone want any pictures or info I will be glad to take any pictures you want and help with any info I have.
 

johnoder

Diamond
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Location
Houston, TX USA
How do you get the tailstock ram feed to re-engage again after you have moved it all the way out of engagement ?

Hold it in and turn the handwheel CCW until the thread catches and starts pulling it in (assumes out of position handwheel turns same as one not so positioned and instead just on end of TS screw).

I have sent request to Boston Gear Works and Martin Sprocket with request about metric change gears. Is there anyone else worth contacting ?

Forum member Finegrain can make them, but you need to know what is wanted, piece by piece in detail. The two mentioned firms will have no idea without a print for each piece.
 

S_W_Bausch

Diamond
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
Boston Gear has a page dedicated to lathe change gears:

Welcome to Boston Gear

But you will need to know pressure angle, tooth count, etc. Your existing gears can supply all details except tooth count; your math skills can determine the tooth count suitable for the quadrant.

If you have the lathe's documentation, perhaps some hints are in the documentation.
 

Mike C.

Diamond
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Location
Birmingham, AL
I think you'll find you can make most of the missing items. The taper attach clamp is pretty simple. The base adjuster feet are just threaded with hex slightly smaller than the thread minor diam. Gonna be a fantastic machine when you get it up and running!

As for scale, go look at a modern manufacture Summit, Jet etc... 20" lathe and that's about the size of this one... but much heavier duty in construction.
 

Panza

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Lillehammer, Norway
Hold it in and turn the handwheel CCW until the thread catches and starts pulling it in (assumes out of position handwheel turns same as one not so positioned and instead just on end of TS screw).

Forum member Finegrain can make them, but you need to know what is wanted, piece by piece in detail. The two mentioned firms will have no idea without a print for each piece.

I have tried pushing while turning the handwheel, but the pinion that pulls the rack on the tailstock quill won't catch. I have the rear cover off the tailstock and I can look inside and see what's going on. Is is possible that the quill is so tight (from abuse or other) that it's won't move with manual force ? The tailstock is two-speed and it was very hard to move the quill in high-gear.

I will send Finegrain a PM about the gears.

The chuck is 10". Probably about as big a chuck as I want to manhandle on and off that spindle.
The tailstock taper is MT4. Numerous questions has been raised as to why it is so small, but I haven't seen an answer yet.

I think I will make the clamps for the taper attachment if they don't show up, seems easy enough. Not so sure about the missing bracket for the taper attachment , although it will probably cost like $2000 to buy it.

I am sure you're right Mike C. , I haven't heard of anyone being unhappy with their Pacemaker yet :)

As for the beverages:

Pace-007.jpg


Pace-006.jpg


Pace-005.jpg
 

Ray Behner

Diamond
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Location
Brunswick Oh USA
Panza,
Although your American is 13 yrs. older than mine, it does have some similarities. Are you sure the tailstock sleeve is lined up with the keyway? Yes, mine is also a 4MT. With all that beef for a TS, you sure would think they would have made it a 5. The clamps for the TA and the bracket and extension rod are pictured.

100_1223-1.jpg

100_1224.jpg
 

Panza

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Lillehammer, Norway
I suspect the selection of beverages in a can are a lot more limited over here than in the US ;)

Panza,
Although your American is 13 yrs. older than mine, it does have some similarities. Are you sure the tailstock sleeve is lined up with the keyway? Yes, mine is also a 4MT. With all that beef for a TS, you sure would think they would have made it a 5. The clamps for the TA and the bracket and extension rod are pictured.

I think it is lined up with the keyway, but I will double-check that. Is there anything preventing me from pushing or pulling is all the way out to see what is going on in there ?

Thanks for posting those pictures Ray, they will be very helpful!
Does the clamps have pins in them that fits into the taper attachment, for lining them up ? My TA has holes that look like they are made for that purpose.

I am wondering if your taper attachment bracket is shop-made ? If you look at this picture from one of the bulletins it sure looks like it would be cast in one piece from the factory.
Not that it matters as far as function goes. Mine will probably be made like yours anyway :)

52673d1337933718-american-tool-works-bulletin-25a-taperatt.jpg
 

Ray Behner

Diamond
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Location
Brunswick Oh USA
Hi Panza,
Nope, mine is a weldment as pictured in my manual. I think in an effort to "cheap out" in their last years of production they went to several weldments instead of castings. Mine has box ways, but your's is a V type, so you'll need to cut a female V groove.
There's no pin holes in mine, just tapered feet for the clamps.
A friend of mine had a big Lodge and Shipley. He never used the taper for years and then needed it on one job. He clamped it tight to the ways and promptly snapped the bracket in two. The taper looked clean, but was frozen to itself from non use. Make sure she's free to move.
My lathe differs from your's quite a bit. The bed and headstock were cast in India and shipped to Ohio to be assembled. All internals and electrical stuff were made in Cincinnati. Even though it was made in India, it's still an incredibly accurate machine. Turned a 66'' x 6'' bar down to 140mm and held within a thou.
I had the sleeve out of the headstock for some modifications. Slid out without much effort. Just remember...it's HEAVY! This TS is a single speed with the hand wheel in the back. The wheel was really big for the leverage needed. Very tiring with a large drill.
pwrdts.jpg
 

Ray Behner

Diamond
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Location
Brunswick Oh USA
Hey Panza,
I lied! After looking at the picture I posted, I noticed something under the clamp. Yup, it's a pin. I knew the clamps were sloppy and assumed no pin. Took it off to find both pins broken. They measure: 64mm long x 35mm wide w/an overall height of 26mm. 15mm thick with a 30º taper to a 3.5mm foot for the remaining 11mm.

100_1226.jpg
 

Panza

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Lillehammer, Norway
I didn't realize our machines were that different externally. The tailstock is seriously changed - I can (almost) imagine what it is like to crank that handwheel. The powerfeed looks like a nice addition for anyone. The ability to feed nice and even is underrated.
I will test-run the taper attachment and lube it up good to make sure it is free.

Thanks for posting the sized of the clamps! Even in millimeters! Makes it so much easier to make them.

I was trying to remove the top-slide today but ran into problems at once. On the other lathes I have taken apart the slide just comes of at the end of the travel, or you can unbolt the screw and handwheel at the front. I can't get to the acme nuts and there seems to be no way to get to what is holding the screw onto the nut at the end of the travel.
The way wiper for the top slide was held on by about 8 screws which were suspiciously hard to unscrew: No wonder, totally the wrong threads - The threads on the screws were about twice as coarse as the tapped holes... :angry: Who in the world would do something like that ??
The gib for the top-slide was also lined with plastic material...
 

A_Pmech

Stainless
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Central IL, USA
Panza,

Glad to see you finally found one! Excellent news. :)

Removing the cross slide involves unbolting the lead screw nut from the slide. You cannot simply run the nut of the end of the cross slide screw as it is supported at the back end by the taper attachment. If you look at the top of the slide you'll see one large bolt and one or two smaller bolts. That is the fixating bolt and the backlash adjustment screws. Remove those. Then remove the way cover on the end of the slide, remove the gib screws front and back and slide the gib out. This will provide you with enough play to remove the cross slide without complete disassembly of the taper attachment.

Re: Missing parts

The adjustment feet are easy to make. You'll need 12 I think.
The taper attachment clamps are very simple, I can take photos of mine if you like.
The taper attachment bracket for my machine looks just like the one in the illustration above.
 

Panza

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Lillehammer, Norway
Thank you A_Pmech ! I am happy (almost in lathe-nirvana).
I just got the top slide apart. At first I didn't realize I had to unthread the acme screw, handwheel and scales as one unit from the casting to get enough room.
I will try the cross slide tomorrow. Will follow your advice.

Had a look at the taper attachment, and as Ray Behner suggested, it is full of crap. I was hardly able to move it with all the bolts loosened. The good news is that it's not the plain one, but the one with roller bearings. It will need a serious cleaning before that will make any difference though.
If it is of interest I will keep taking pictures of the progress.
There is bound to be lots of questions so the least I can do is entertain you with imagery.
I will upload some pictures of the top slide tomorrow, not quite sure what to do with it, other than cleaning.
I have most feet after all, they're just screwed all the way into the casting.
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
Fine looking Pacemaker! I have a baby Axelson of similiar size/vintage- A genuine pleasure to use.

The 2 speed tailstock on my Axelson will push back in with hand pressure if it comes out of engagement with the rack pinion. I imagine yours needs some cleaning/lube to get the ram sliding properly. If you haven't had one previously the 2 speed is nice to have. I was pretty amused that the button to switch speeds on mine was painted over/stuck in high range when I got it. It's a feature that you will use all the time if you know it's there.
 

Panza

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Lillehammer, Norway
Thank you for the feedback on the tailstock Garwood. I am starting to believe mine needs some cleanup from burrs or something, as it seems pretty solidly stuck. The oiling works fine so I don't think that is the problem.

The day before yesterday I tore into the cross slide, the compund and the taper attachment.
I will start from the bottom of the taper attachment. As I wrote before: I was barely able to move it with all the bolts loosened. As can be seen in the first picture here there are a reason for that. I am not sure what the substance is, but it looks like some sort thick rusty oil goo. Maybe it is a combination of oil, rust and dried coolant. It seems the machine has been used with coolant a lot of the time, from the amount of gunk in the coolant sump. The good news is that it seems like there is not much pitting from the rust.

Pace-008.jpg


Here is the bottom of the slide of the taper attachment, which is the worst part. Most of the bearings are rough and some are almost stuck.
I will take the worst one out and see if it is possible to clean it up. If that is not possible I hope they are a standard size, or I will surely spend more on bearings from B&K than what is wise. It is difficult to see in this picture but there are horizontal ball bearings riding in the middle groove of the bottom too.

Pace-009.jpg


Here is the top of the slide of the taper attachment. It looks pretty bad but I have started cleaning it and it comes out pretty nice after a little work with WD40 and 3M pads. I will take out the adjustment screw and clean that too, as it is pretty dirty and hard to turn.

Pace-010.jpg


Bottom of the taper adjustment piece. Half of it is just wiped off and the other half has had a little scrubbing. Comes out pretty nice. The staining is not bad at all. I can post some closeups later if someone wants to see. There is the smallest amount of scratches so I'm pretty sure the taper attachment hasn't been used much.

Pace-011.jpg


The last picture is the top slide of the taper attachment. Pretty dirty but it will clean up. 4 huge bearings in there, with the parts numbers still on them. I hope they are ok.
On the right is the rearmost screw on the anti-backlash adjustment for the cross slide. I wonder what the purpose of the brass plug inside the screw is ? There are actually 2 plugs in there. One about 1/8" high and the other fills the rest of the height..

Pace-012.jpg
 

Panza

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Lillehammer, Norway
I need quite a number of the taper attachment bearings (all 20 maybe), but the only ones I can find have felt seals and cost $15 each: http://www.consbrgs.com/details/65/65_1_6.html
Is this bearing available with rubber seals ? Another matter is that the inner diameter is not 8mm even.
7.94mm is the max ID measurement I can get. From previous experience that is not close enough.
I am wondering if this is a standard bearing at all.

So what I need is bearings with:
ID: ~7.94mm
OD: 24mm
Width at the outer race: 8mm (+/- 2mm is ok)
Width at the inner race: 12.56mm (can use shims I guess)
 

baldwin

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Location
South Yorkshire, England.
I need quite a number of the taper attachment bearings (all 20 maybe), but the only ones I can find have felt seals and cost $15 each: http://www.consbrgs.com/details/65/65_1_6.html
Is this bearing available with rubber seals ? Another matter is that the inner diameter is not 8mm even.
7.94mm is the max ID measurement I can get. From previous experience that is not close enough.
I am wondering if this is a standard bearing at all.

So what I need is bearings with:
ID: ~7.94mm
OD: 24mm
Width at the outer race: 8mm (+/- 2mm is ok)
Width at the inner race: 12.56mm (can use shims I guess)

ID of 7.94 sounds a lot like 5/16" imperial to me. Could the OD be 15/16"?

I cannot find any for sale which fit either dimension here in the UK though.

Steve
 

johnoder

Diamond
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Location
Houston, TX USA
Fafnir listed a 38KVLL2 8mm bore; 24mm O,D.; 12.62 inner width and 8 outer width with two seals

This was in the Extra Small 30 Metric Series
 








 
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