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Own a few machines; wondering if a business partnership is best (I am w/o exp.)

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
"Wondering about the best way to start a shop in Southern California; I am new to the business."

If I owned a shop in the area would be inclined to invest an hour a so over lunch and chit-chat a bit about what either side might have to offer...'ya never know what many come out of simply taking a call and having a discussion.....

"When Steve Jobs cold-called Hewlett-Packard's co-founder to request some spare electronic parts, he got what he asked for — and a job."

How Steve Jobs cold-called his way to an internship at Hewlett-Packard
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
Manchester, England
You cannot run two manual machines at a time with any efficiency. No one counts cutting stock as running a machine when it comes to production work, only you. Go ahead and explain how you can efficiently run a mill and a drill press at the same time. You know where you claimed to make over $100 an hour for a whole month doing simple production work on manual machines.

I once took a planer out of an old mill. The company selling the planer just specialised in planing and vertical boring. They’ve probably gone to the wall now. They had 3 vertical boring machines a 36” machine, a 48” machine and a 96” machine. One guy was working all three. The 96” machine had the same stainless steel job on that was running really slowly, and noisily, for all the two weeks I was there. The other two machines had various jobs on. The guy who was operating the machines told me he was on double wages.

Regards Tyrone.
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
Saw cutting stock, Milling machine on power feed cutting stock to size and me drilling and tapping holes on a drill press. Part of the time I was spotting holes on the mill so I "only" had two machines running at a time.

If you're only running one machine at a time it takes just as long to run a saw for an hour as it does to run a mill for an hour. Run them both at the same time and you probably get 1.9 times the efficiency. Everyone doesn't run barfeed machines.

Your system is going to get out run 5x-10x over without even pushing things in the slightest on a machining center when it comes to production work. Full blast on the common Servo 140 table feed is 25 IPM. A machinging center can cut 10x+ that and rapid 20x+ that. What part of that do you refuse to understand? Unless you are an OEM you aren't making squat on manual mill or lathe doing high quantity work for any length of time, not happening. Stop misleading people.
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
I once took a planer out of an old mill. The company selling the planer just specialised in planing and vertical boring. They’ve probably gone to the wall now. They had 3 vertical boring machines a 36” machine, a 48” machine and a 96” machine. One guy was working all three. The 96” machine had the same stainless steel job on that was running really slowly, and noisily, for all the two weeks I was there. The other two machines had various jobs on. The guy who was operating the machines told me he was on double wages.

Regards Tyrone.

Those machines can run on auto feed for long periods of time, BigB was talking about using a power feed on a common sized manual mill. I should have been more specific.
 

Big B

Diamond
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Location
Michigan, USA
I once took a planer out of an old mill. The company selling the planer just specialised in planing and vertical boring. They’ve probably gone to the wall now. They had 3 vertical boring machines a 36” machine, a 48” machine and a 96” machine. One guy was working all three. The 96” machine had the same stainless steel job on that was running really slowly, and noisily, for all the two weeks I was there. The other two machines had various jobs on. The guy who was operating the machines told me he was on double wages.

Regards Tyrone.

Some people have a hard time walking and chewing gum at the same time while others can do both and juggle at the same time.
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
Some people have a hard time walking and chewing gum at the same time while others can do both and juggle at the same time.

You call cutting stock on a horizontal bandsaw while doing other things as a machine you're running when counting production machines you are running at once. I don't, the same as most people and anyone you work for. Your union upbringing causes you to set the bar low. If someone came from a union shop where they worked hard compared to a non union one I would love to hear the stories.
 

Big B

Diamond
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Location
Michigan, USA
You call cutting stock on a horizontal bandsaw while doing other things as a machine you're running when counting production machines you are running at once. I don't, the same as most people and anyone you work for. Your union upbringing causes you to set the bar low. If someone came from a union shop where they worked hard compared to a non union one I would love to hear the stories.

Cutting stock is part of making parts. Sitting around trolling others on this site isn't part of making parts. I understand that your stock cuts itself with the use of barfeeders but when you're making details in a manual mill you need to cut stock too. Maybe you just put 12 foot bars in a Bridgeport but I don't.
 

jccaclimber

Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Location
San Francisco
Cutting stock is part of making parts. Sitting around trolling others on this site isn't part of making parts. I understand that your stock cuts itself with the use of barfeeders but when you're making details in a manual mill you need to cut stock too. Maybe you just put 12 foot bars in a Bridgeport but I don't.

Deburring and cleaning are part of making parts too, but I don’t claim to be running three machines when the tumbler and ultrasonic cleaner are running in the background.

While I agree that it’s a matter of opinion, the point is that the usual low setup long cycle time processes are considered the baseline expectation that everyone does, not something unusual, and often not a large part of the skilled value add that makes any given shop competitive over the alternatives.
 

Big B

Diamond
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Location
Michigan, USA
Deburring and cleaning are part of making parts too, but I don’t claim to be running three machines when the tumbler and ultrasonic cleaner are running in the background.

While I agree that it’s a matter of opinion, the point is that the usual low setup long cycle time processes are considered the baseline expectation that everyone does, not something unusual, and often not a large part of the skilled value add that makes any given shop competitive over the alternatives.

Cycle times on manual machines? We were talking about running manual machines, not cnc's.

F16 said that you can't run more than one manual machine at a time and I disagreed. Maybe he can't but that doesn't mean that nobody can. He runs bar feeder cnc lathes. I run mostly manual machines. There is a difference.
 

jccaclimber

Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Location
San Francisco
Cycle times on manual machines? We were talking about running manual machines, not cnc's.

F16 said that you can't run more than one manual machine at a time and I disagreed. Maybe he can't but that doesn't mean that nobody can. He runs bar feeder cnc lathes. I run mostly manual machines. There is a difference.

Yes, cycle times on manual machines, but use the term of your choice. It takes X time to do something from boiling a pot of water when cooking dinner to running a CNC program. Call it a step time if you want.
 

Comatose

Titanium
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Location
Akron, OH
There's no such thing as a "manual" machine once you stick a motor on it.

Quibbling over where the "manual" line is is silly semantics. If it's doing something you told it to do while you're not sitting on it, that's automation. That could be 1000bc automation (gravity) 1800s automation (bandsaw) 1900s automation (power feed) 1950s automation (NC) or 1970s automation (CNC.)

To the OP: the company that gave you the machines clearly couldn't make a go of them, and presumably they had experience. Sell them to someone who needs them and carry on. Nothing in that list is the magic "press button and easily make money" machine that everyone here dreams about but none of us actually own.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
Good grief, did F16 git set in the corner again?
icon_doh.gif



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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
A young guy was employed to run a couple of simple CNC cut to length saws.........was told he had to deburr the cut ends in his spare time....."Noooo....there are machines to do that....Im not doing it."....and he refused,and quit on his first day.
 

barbter2

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 25, 2019
Location
On Tour....
Not sure if F16 will be back....perhaps he was permanently nuked in the SW update?
Mine was a 1x day ban :rolleyes: due to be lifted on the following day of the upgrade.
Which has changed to permanent with no answer as to why 🤷‍♂️
 

Sunilkhopkar

Plastic
Joined
Jun 15, 2021
Hi, first time to post.

Wondering about the best way to start a shop in Southern California; I am new to the business.

I currently own a Bridgeport/Hardinge Series 1 milling machine and a Eisen lathe, among other equipment recently acquired. My previous company folded and they gave me the machine shop, as payment. Unfortunately, I have no experience with the equipment.

General guidance about creating a machine shop would be appreciated. My focus is more on robotics usage/design so I continue to have a need for machine shop capability. My first thought is establishing a business partnership with someone who has a focus on machining; perhaps they have machines too.

Is there a known registry of business advisors for this kind of business venture.

Any advice will be appreciated. I will check the board or can be reached at [email protected]

With Kind Regards,
Shawn
Hi.
Are you ready to collaborate in India. We have a set up having few machines , measuring instruments.
Thanks
 

Plane Parts

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
You will competing with shops that have experience. I have 25 years under my belt and customers are amazed how fast I can drill a simple hole in something like an intake manifold, It took decades to learn that. Can you do that? My suggestion... Take some courses at the local community college to learn machining. Second. Take LOTS of course on coding, PLC, and automation and skip the machining part of automation / robotics. Get a few cheap arduino kits, make yourself a plc trainer for $500, and get a robot arm from Amazon and study your ass off. Don't get me wrong. I love machining and make a comfortable living from my own shop. But if your interest is robotics skip the machining and learn that side first. You can learn everything you need about robotics and automation for less then the price of a used lathe.
 

Newman109

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Location
Sacramento County, California, USA California
Rule #1, never take on a partner. Rule #2, see rule #1. Sure, there are some that work, but it's a commitment that can be way more than marriage and way harder to extricate yourself from. Lawyers are expensive. Most likely you'll come to see your partner as a minion from hell, or worse, no matter how well you get along now. If you need help, hire it!

If you haven't already gravitated into shop work, you probably won't. IMO, see if you can sell the shop, then become a customer to support your robotics efforts.
This may be the best advice ever given at this website. When I was in law school, we studied partnerships for about two days and that was only because the author of the Corporations law book had seen fit to put something like 5 or 6 pages in the front of the book on the topic of partnerships. In lectures, the instructor who was a praticing attorney, spent all of one lecture telling war stories about partnerships that he had dissolved in his practice.
I myself was in one with a former friend who never came up to speed once we began the partnership. That's the principal issue in entering into a partnership - that one partner won't live up to his or her part of the bargain, be that investment or labor.
My personal opinion is that if a partnership is working smoothly, then it would be far nicer and better off to turn it into a corporation and thereby gain some protection of the corporation's hallmark which is limited liability - you know, for when things go South. :rolleyes5:
 








 
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