PARTING OUT 2001 Makino a55e HMC ...

[mbraddock]

We have a matching pair of Makino a55e machines that came out of a Siemen's manufacturing plant where they only cut plastics. We've used one of the two machines for the past three years and some of the electrical parts are getting difficult to source through Makino or other vendors, so we've decided to decommission one to provide parts for the other. We also need the space, as we hopefully have another machine coming in about six weeks.

We're currently planning on keeping the control panel, controller boards, amplifiers, motors, B-axis encoder, a few of the tool-changer pots and a few other miscellaneous items. Everything else is up for sale if you can use it:

- X, Y, Z axis ballscrews (*)
- X, Y, Z axis rails and trucks (*)
- main column and base castings
- 91 tool wine-rack magazine, ball screws, rails and trucks
- B-axis gearbox (sight glass shows its full of clean oil (no coolant contamination)


(*) When we asked our Makino tech if we should keep the ballscrews and rails for our other machine, he replied that there's no point because they all look practically new on both machines. Which is a testament to how well Siemens took care of the machines and how frequently we do PMs on ours.

Please post here if you're interested in anything, or PM if your prefer. I'm not listing prices because I care more about rehoming the parts than making a bunch of money on them.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[Garwood]

What parts have you needed for your machine that you cannot find?

There are a lot of those machines running production for their 2nd and 3rd owners today.

Just seems like a shame to take apart a top notch machine like that to put parts on the shelf you don't need.

 

[Antarctica]

Damn - kinda scary that parts for a machine of that vintage and caliber are hard to come by...

 

[mbraddock]

Garwood,

Excellent point and agreed completely until a few weeks ago, LOL. We were given a quote of $12k - $14k to replace the B-axis rotary position encoder because it's no longer supported, so a newer unit would have to be adapted to the machine ($10k) and it would require a new cable and FANUC to make a field visit to install a new piece of hardware to let the newer encoder play nice with the older B-axis amplifier (est. $2-$4k).

We were also told the B-axis amplifier was no longer available. So these two parts are likely equal to the value of the second machine if we were to sell it to make room for a newer one. Our amplifier ended up being fine; there was just a bad connection in the encoder backup power-pod that holds 4 D-cell batteries. Backup voltage would read fine until the door was closed and it would momentarily drop to zero and back to being fine, making the amplifier believe backup power had been lost to the drive.

Makino told us they try to stock parts for 20 years, and after that it becomes a little iffy whether they will have what we need.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[CITIZEN F16]

Garwood,

Excellent point and agreed completely until a few weeks ago, LOL. We were given a quote of $12k - $14k to replace the B-axis rotary position encoder because it's no longer supported, so a newer unit would have to be adapted to the machine ($10k) and it would require a new cable and FANUC to make a field visit to install a new piece of hardware to let the newer encoder play nice with the older B-axis amplifier (est. $2-$4k).

We were also told the B-axis amplifier was no longer available. So these two parts are likely equal to the value of the second machine if we were to sell it to make room for a newer one. Our amplifier ended up being fine; there was just a bad connection in the encoder backup power-pod that holds 4 D-cell batteries. Backup voltage would read fine until the door was closed and it would momentarily drop to zero and back to being fine, making the amplifier believe backup power had been lost to the drive.

Makino told us they try to stock parts for 20 years, and after that it becomes a little iffy whether they will have what we need.

Thanks!

Mike

Have you checked E-bay for parts or looked for an independent repair shop? Those prices sound insane to me. I hate to see you part it out at it's age as the "newest" CNC I have isn't much newer.

 

[Garwood]

Garwood,

Excellent point and agreed completely until a few weeks ago, LOL. We were given a quote of $12k - $14k to replace the B-axis rotary position encoder because it's no longer supported, so a newer unit would have to be adapted to the machine ($10k) and it would require a new cable and FANUC to make a field visit to install a new piece of hardware to let the newer encoder play nice with the older B-axis amplifier (est. $2-$4k).

We were also told the B-axis amplifier was no longer available. So these two parts are likely equal to the value of the second machine if we were to sell it to make room for a newer one. Our amplifier ended up being fine; there was just a bad connection in the encoder backup power-pod that holds 4 D-cell batteries. Backup voltage would read fine until the door was closed and it would momentarily drop to zero and back to being fine, making the amplifier believe backup power had been lost to the drive.

Makino told us they try to stock parts for 20 years, and after that it becomes a little iffy whether they will have what we need.

Thanks!

Mike

Encoder? You mean scale? Scales are way cheaper than that. Retrofit scales and amplifiers are a standard deal when you get into this caliber of machine and keeping them running. The whole enchilada should be under $5k per axis, but that's doing it yourself, not paying Fanuc or Makino.

If you own a Makino and pay for service and repairs then you shouldn't bat an eye at dropping $20k on maintenance parts. That's the class of machine they are.

My Makino is the great grandfather of yours. It has a B axis scale and going strong at 33 years old.

BTW, you can turn the scales OFF in the parameters and run the B axis off the servo encoder just like a base machine while you retrofit a new scale and amp.

If I'm way off and you are talking about an encoder then I don't know what to say. Encoders are nowhere near that expensive and Fanuc will never obsolete any of them.

 

[CITIZEN F16]

I might have found a couple dreamers but with the prices I saw it would be a big mistake to cannibalize that machine for parts. I have never had a high opinion of Fanuc field service. I am sure it depends on what office they come from. You might be in a bad place for them but if you don't have anyone in house to give it a shot, try to find a local tech and or an independent repair house. What is the controller model? There are many independent repair houses that specialize in certain generations. Fanuc is the most common controller.

 

[cgmaster]

I used to work for Makino as a field service engineer. You would be surprised at what they do to sell a new machine or have one taken out of service.

Makino has changed recently. I would look at other sources for the parts and service.

 

[mbraddock]

Encoder? You mean scale? Scales are way cheaper than that. Retrofit scales and amplifiers are a standard deal when you get into this caliber of machine and keeping them running. The whole enchilada should be under $5k per axis, but that's doing it yourself, not paying Fanuc or Makino.

If you own a Makino and pay for service and repairs then you shouldn't bat an eye at dropping $20k on maintenance parts. That's the class of machine they are.

My Makino is the great grandfather of yours. It has a B axis scale and going strong at 33 years old.

BTW, you can turn the scales OFF in the parameters and run the B axis off the servo encoder just like a base machine while you retrofit a new scale and amp.

If I'm way off and you are talking about an encoder then I don't know what to say. Encoders are nowhere near that expensive and Fanuc will never obsolete any of them.

Thank you for all the helpful information!

Yes, the rotary position feedback sensor that attaches to the B-axis table. It looks like a giant potentiometer, so I thought it was a rotary encoder. I'm sure you know more about them than I do. We're been running with it disabled for a few weeks now (as you suggested), but we cut a lot of high tolerance parts where the error was significant.

Right now we're swamped and have customers waiting to give us new jobs, so we don't have time to deal with a retrofit. We have also been EXTREMELY pleased with support from Makino on our newer a51 and an independent service technician we found that's very knowledgeable about our a55s. So when both told us that parts support for these older machines is beginning to slowly drop off, we made the business decision to use one for parts and replace it with a new a51, so that's where we're at.

For those who are more electronics-savy, I'm sure you could have completed an encoder retrofit yourself for a lot cheaper, but it just made sense to save $10k - $15k by taking the parts we needed off the machine that was in the worse condition of the two and placing all the electronics in inventory in hopes our tech can keep our other a55 running for another 5 years. Makino's going to buy the spindle to rebuild and keep in inventory. So by the time we valued a 2001 a55e with no coolant tank / chip conveyor (because it was originally ordered to cut plastics) at around $35k and combined that with the fact that we would need to add probing, memory and more work offsets to the a55 if we keep it (which Makino / PQI / FANUC quoted at around $15k), it made financial sense for us to part it out. Yes, it made me a little sad too, but it's what we had to do to ensure the reliability necessary for the new family of parts we just got awarded.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[CITIZEN F16]

Oh well, RIP to the machine. Hopefully the organ harvest will prolong life for other machines.

 

[JasonTech (bar)]

Will pm you for a discussion

 

[triumph406]

I have an old RMC55, I have had Fanuc out twice, great service

I've tried multiple times to get a maintenance manual from the makino parts dept, they exist,they sell them, I've even given the parts dept the part no for the manual. I gave up 15 years ago to try and get that f'ing manual. There was somebody in the service dept who would send me pdf's from the manual when I needed some clarity. Maybe it's better now, but at the time I was getting better service from the $20 Ho on Hollywood Blvd. I've heard others complain about Makino parts dept re cost/avilibility/responsiveness

Buy an old Mori? I've got info from Mori for a 1979 SL3. Implausable for any Makino

---------------------------------------------

I was at an auction in Sunland (near LA)15 or so years ago for a aerospace facility that had some very nice Makino HMC's. They went very cheap, I asked a machinery dealer there why they didn't bid on the Makinos. "More trouble then there worth, getting parts and service is problematic" he said. He aslo said they can be finicky after moving. At least that was his experience.

 

[Garwood]

I have a 1967 Hyster forklift I'm sprucing up and got about the same response from Hyster and the local dealer. They won't sell me a manual, but they have PDF snippets they will email me for free that cover various aspects of my forklift. It took about 5 calls to my local dealer for the counter guy to finally explain they do not have a complete manual at all, they just have a folder on a computer with various PDF's inside that they think are relevant to what I'm asking. The PDF's of scanned manual pages were made long ago by who knows who, but they are categorized and labeled so they can help customers and their own service folk.

I tracked down and bought an original manual on ebay. Spent $200 on the damn thing. I suspect Makino is similar here.

The stack of Makino and Fuji books for my MC40 is 10" tall. You could build the machine from scratch with the damn things, but the actual operations manual isn't all that useful. All the hard parts info is in there. The stuff that's not in there, like the composition of the rubber the seals are made from for the hydraulic toolchanger, Makino is more than happy to share with a registered customer.

That said, Makino is not like any other builder in how they built out the Fanuc PMC. They went way above and beyond and there are tricks and secrets that aren't in any Makino books. It is out there though.

I believe that when you buy a Makino, used or new, you really do get what you pay for. You get a rock star of a machine and the company does stand behind it, but they do have some low barriers to support, like paying $2500 to register your machine or business. I can respect that, but I also know I can reach out to friendly companies registered with Makino for some help if I really, really needed it (doubtful).

 

[triumph406]

I have a 1967 Hyster forklift I'm sprucing up and got about the same response from Hyster and the local dealer. They won't sell me a manual, but they have PDF snippets they will email me for free that cover various aspects of my forklift. It took about 5 calls to my local dealer for the counter guy to finally explain they do not have a complete manual at all, they just have a folder on a computer with various PDF's inside that they think are relevant to what I'm asking. The PDF's of scanned manual pages were made long ago by who knows who, but they are categorized and labeled so they can help customers and their own service folk.

I tracked down and bought an original manual on ebay. Spent $200 on the damn thing. I suspect Makino is similar here.

The stack of Makino and Fuji books for my MC40 is 10" tall. You could build the machine from scratch with the damn things, but the actual operations manual isn't all that useful. All the hard parts info is in there. The stuff that's not in there, like the composition of the rubber the seals are made from for the hydraulic toolchanger, Makino is more than happy to share with a registered customer.

That said, Makino is not like any other builder in how they built out the Fanuc PMC. They went way above and beyond and there are tricks and secrets that aren't in any Makino books. It is out there though.

I believe that when you buy a Makino, used or new, you really do get what you pay for. You get a rock star of a machine and the company does stand behind it, but they do have some low barriers to support, like paying $2500 to register your machine or business. I can respect that, but I also know I can reach out to friendly companies registered with Makino for some help if I really, really needed it (doubtful).

Every mother loving time I'called makino it's the same BS, and i mean EVERYTIME

"hi this xxx xxxx of xxxx engineering, looking for xxxxx for a makino RMC55"
"searial number of the machine please?"
"it's xxxxxxxxx"
"Ok we have the machine as owned by Suncoast"
"That was two owners ago, this the xx time we've been thru this, and everytime you've taken my details and promised to update the system"
"Ok you need to provide me with company name, address etc etc"
"AGAIN?!, ok here's the details, hopefully for the last time!"

This has been the conversation on maybe 3-4 calls, should only happen once. that would be true for Mori.

I might call them soon and see if they remember me, or if I have to go thru the same rigmoroll AGAIN. Sad thing is as good as the machine is, registering the machine at a cost of $2500 is not going to happen.

Fanuc remembers me. But then after having them come out twice to fix the control they should!