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Perpetual motion machine-what to do-what to do--

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Scottl

Diamond
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
Eastern Massachusetts, USA
If it works as advertised it will be going in a museum somewhere. I found out the tape pulled up stain on the mahogany plywood I used so
will need to do some refinishing. I doubt people will understand how much trauma I am putting myself through to build this. I simply want
my life back. As for it "not" working, testing has shown it will work.
As for other people building something like this saying it works, it might be too much work for one person to do.
I'm probably making a mistake replying but one of your statements begs for it.

"I doubt people will understand how much trauma I am putting myself through to build this."

You have admitted that you are in way over your head with this but for some reason you persist. Many well-funded teams of researchers over the years have tried to make a go of this perpetual motion idea including things like cryo-cooling windings, rotors running in a vacuum, etc.

And yet despite months and years of work no one to date has successfully proved perpetual motion. Many thought their "testing has shown it will work" but under rigorous independent examination it turned out they miscalculated and while they had created long term motion it was not perpetual and input energy was always higher.

This alone ought to tell you what the future holds for you if you work yourself to exhaustion in this endeavor. You will be like those prospectors who grew old spending a lifetime looking for the mother lode and ended up old, broke, and bitter.

Think about it.
 

Clim

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 26, 2022
I'm probably making a mistake replying but one of your statements begs for it.

"I doubt people will understand how much trauma I am putting myself through to build this."

You have admitted that you are in way over your head with this but for some reason you persist. Many well-funded teams of researchers over the years have tried to make a go of this perpetual motion idea including things like cryo-cooling windings, rotors running in a vacuum, etc.

And yet despite months and years of work no one to date has successfully proved perpetual motion. Many thought their "testing has shown it will work" but under rigorous independent examination it turned out they miscalculated and while they had created long term motion it was not perpetual and input energy was always higher.

This alone ought to tell you what the future holds for you if you work yourself to exhaustion in this endeavor. You will be like those prospectors who grew old spending a lifetime looking for the mother lode and ended up old, broke, and bitter.

Think about it.
Things would've gone better if I would've been allowed to work with other people. With my medical situation, without surgery my life will be ruined. And I might be asking Australia for sanctuary. One mistake a doctor made was when I had surgery for cancer in 2009. He put my intestines in wrong. I have imaging going back to 2013 that shows this. I've already sent some information to the Embassy of Australia. It won't be possible for me to trust an American doctor again. Especially when I accuse them of fraud and abuse for over a decade.
As for what I'm building, torque is factored as a sin theta or weight sin xº
Then from the axle and then to the left and right of its center line is how torque or leverage is calculated. When a weight is at bottom center it is basically massless.
The line supporting it cancels out its weight. When it rotates its f = ma. As it moves away from the center line of the axle then with the 3 lb assemblies I'm using, at what angle from the axle? When the weight assembly moves to 22 inches to the left of the axle's center line, that is further away than when it's on the center line. At the same time, the weight assembly is always the same distance from its fulcrum. Work is performed when the wheel rotates. When the weight assembly moves up the arm, the line it is attached to remains the same length so no work is being performed. And this is something that I say is a 300 year old design that was actually built and did work. My videos show that it can work.
I'll need to tape over the boards and then add the screws. Then I can restain the boards and probably assemble the frame this weekend. I have the axle mounted so that I'm satisfied with it. With the diagram, it shows a triangle (kicker) will hit a round dowel. That will shoot the weight assembly outward. And once that is mounted then the wheel will be about finished.
 

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Scottl

Diamond
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
Eastern Massachusetts, USA
With the load bearing surfaces, rivets vs bolts and what other factors? How were all hole locations placed?
Luck of the draw or were they machined? It's not a simple machine that conserves energy but is something where mass matters.
It's just a rivet, right?
Hole locations were placed to normal tolerances. In hot riveting the shank as well as the (new) head get upset and the shank expands to fill the holes. A slight offset doesn't matter because there's enough shear area to take the load. Typically a guy with a charcoal brazier with a hand cranked blower heated the rivets to bright red and then tossed them one at a time using tongs to a guy on the floor above who caught them in a steel cup and passed them to the guys doing the riveting. One bucked (backed up) the already formed head while the other used a pneumatic rivet setter to form the new head on the other side.

For the occasional bolted hole the holes get aligned by reaming with a tapered front hand reamer so they line up.
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
"...what the future holds for you if you work yourself to exhaustion in this endeavor."

Which one, trolling the residents here? Or, proving that gravity is energy, or matter is gravity, or whatever whack-a-doodle idea is the flavor-O-day?
 

IceCzar

Plastic
Joined
Jul 3, 2022
Theories about what - gravitation or calculus.
Motion

mass, velocity, momentum, force

Newton's laws of motion
Newton's law of universal gravitation
Newton's law of viscosity
Newton's law of cooling

Of course his work in optics while important at the time has been largely superceded (read footnote)

And as you point out mathematics isn't properly "science" with an undefined epistemological status
 

barbter

Diamond
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
On Tour...
I'm probably making a mistake replying but one of your statements begs for it.

"I doubt people will understand how much trauma I am putting myself through to build this."

You have admitted that you are in way over your head with this but for some reason you persist. Many well-funded teams of researchers over the years have tried to make a go of this perpetual motion idea including things like cryo-cooling windings, rotors running in a vacuum, etc.

And yet despite months and years of work no one to date has successfully proved perpetual motion. Many thought their "testing has shown it will work" but under rigorous independent examination it turned out they miscalculated and while they had created long term motion it was not perpetual and input energy was always higher.

This alone ought to tell you what the future holds for you if you work yourself to exhaustion in this endeavor. You will be like those prospectors who grew old spending a lifetime looking for the mother lode and ended up old, broke, and bitter.

Think about it.
You are bang on the nose here.
I've worked with/for a couple of people who had their pet projects.
One was a "world leading customisable golf putter" which "was worth millions".
And he did get an offer from one bluechip sporting company, but it wasn't Ping.
So he obviously said no, and instead he bankrupted his company and lost his house, chasing the dream....
The other had a "revolutionary" rotary sleeve engine that was going to "take F1 by storm".
This sucked a huge amount of resource and focus out of the companies main business which caused big delivery problems and very unhappy customers.
In the end all was well, and it just cost him a crap-ton of money.
But on the way, it was all very interesting....!
 

EPAIII

Diamond
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Location
Beaumont, TX, USA
Actually it would NOT work, much the same.

Boy, for a board where people don't want to waste time discussion "hobby grade machines" there is sure a lot of time being wasted on a totally impossible build. At least the "hobby grade machines" actually make things. And I have even seen people making a living with them.



seems that tubes with marbles would work much the same
*I dont think it could be so easy
 

Clim

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 26, 2022
Motion

mass, velocity, momentum, force

Newton's laws of motion
Newton's law of universal gravitation
Newton's law of viscosity
Newton's law of cooling

Of course his work in optics while important at the time has been largely superceded (read footnote)

And as you point out mathematics isn't properly "science" with an undefined epistemological status
This is what's on Cornell Universities website. Apparently there is documentation which Gottfried Leibniz
(helped to invent calculus) actually among defended Bessler's machine. Some have said they observed it
working. People can click on Alejandro Jenkin's name at the top left highlighted in blue and see what
other items he has posted and who with. https://arxiv.org/abs/1301.3097

Even a working wheel will be considered a hoax for a while. It is considered impossible, right? And the question
people will have trouble asking is why does the weight assembly move up the arm if it's not being lifted? Because
the arm rotates on an axis different from the fulcrum of the weight assembly. It moves relative to its axle while the
weight wheel assembly remains the same distance from its fulcrum. Basically the 2 pulleys that can be seen shift
the swing of the weight wheel assembly so it will swing with the arm. If the video is stopped at 24 seconds,
how the retraction line can be seen. As the arm/wheel rotates, there is always a 90º between the axle of the wheel
and where the retraction line meets the retraction disc. It seems that the video quality was degraded when editing
was done. This is the original video I used in some of my videos.

p.s., I'd suggest watching the video at 0.25 speed in the setting (gear) in low right corner of the video.
 
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gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
Why do you keep posting a video of a thing which fails to function?
If that thing was ever going to work, it would have within minutes of the failed demonstration
This is the kind of thing that was fun to ponder before the internet when you could not look up the foolishness of your proposals in 30 milliseconds
 

BoxcarPete

Stainless
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Location
Michigan, USA
By this I mean that for every 367 kg per 1 meter of torque equals 1 kWh of energy per second.

I know this is a few pages back, but this statement caught my attention. If you run the dimensional analysis (ignoring that "per" usually means division we'll multiply since he references it as a torque), you can get the units to line up but the end result is that 367 kg*m = 3 600 000 kg*m

With math like that, who wouldn't want to harvest some of that energy for free?
 

Volitan

Hot Rolled
Joined
Sep 16, 2006
Location
Long Island, New York
I haven't but I'll have to check him out. I happen to like science fiction. Of course if Bessler's Wheel works out then I might be able to go
H.G. Wells and science. The U.S. has had droughts and has aquifers drying up.
With my situation, this build works then if I do anything else like this (I have my own design based on math and mechanics) then I could
have a small machine shop at home. Anodized aluminum would look trick. I might build my design with wood and plexiglass (I already
have the plexiglass). My design can be less than 2 ft. in diameter so it'd be for show. And that I can patent. At the moment I just need to
finish the current build.
Then again Bessler's Wheel is something out of time. And its principle of operation is allowed for in mathematics. In math the inverse is
always true. With Bessler's Wheel, instead of the hoist rotating to lift a weight, the inverse happens. The wheel rotates.
An example is 2^3 = 8 and the cube root of 8 is 2. Inverted functions. 2 * 2 * 2 = 8 and 8 / 2 / 2 = 2.
So to lift the weight, rotating either the hoist or the wheel proves the function of the other expression. I am hoping to have the frame
assembled on Saturday and on its stand on Sunday. And with Lem, I bookmarked a page about him. I actually requested the video Solaris
from my local library. They also have the book

The truth and other stories​


I loved Solaris (in book form, haven't seen the movie), The Futurological Congress was my introduction to Lem and led me to read more of him.
Good luck with your project. I sincerely mean that, but I'm afraid you're just going to keep getting frustratingly close but never quite able to make it happen.
 

thermite

Diamond
...With math like that, who wouldn't want to harvest some of that energy for free?

What?

"Harvest energy from gravity"?

Well. the most expensive part of the INFRASTRUCTURE was already installed before we arrived to TAP it.

A sun ... and a rotating planet .... subject to its periodic solar tides.. 'gravity' driven, even.

Extracting power is done every day of the year, year AFTER year...and on a progressively grander scale ... ancient times to present-day ..


....and going forward.


So much for "tidal".

Ocean WAVE motion is related (our sun is the ultimate source for both..) but not identical to tidal.

That, too is being tapped:

 
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MrStretch

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
I retract my apology above. It is clear from the video posted above by the entity labeled "clim" that it is quite clearly taking the piss. I especially like the part when one of the sliding weights falls off. Excellent work!
BTW, I thought it was common knowledge that a perpetual motion machine can only be made with ivory, old growth lignum vitae and cementation brass.
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
"only be made with ivory, old growth lignum vitae and cementation brass."

Not to mention, the ever-popular nobendium and unobtainium!
 

barbter

Diamond
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
On Tour...
What?

"Harvest energy from gravity"?

Well. the most expensive part of the INFRASTRUCTURE was already installed before we arrived to TAP it.

A sun ... and a rotating planet .... subject to its periodic solar tides.. 'gravity' driven, even.

Extracting power is done every day of the year, year AFTER year...and on a progressively grander scale ... ancient times to present-day ..


....and going forward.


So much for "tidal".

Ocean WAVE motion is related (our sun is the ultimate source for both..) but not identical to tidal.

That, too is being tapped:

Back in 2000, I worked with a guy who by then, was a self employed contractor. He was sound as a pound.
He used to work for the CEGB in R+D until the mid-90s when Thatcher sold the lot off.
He told me him and his colleagues in his team pushed like heck for wave development - and there was a Scottish guy right up top developing a sub surface unit as a self funded project, which at the time was looking good.
After all, the UK is surrounded by water and there's two tides, 7/24/365.
But nope.
The future was already wind....
 

MrStretch

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
It's very easy to harvest energy from gravity. The only problem is that the more you harvest, the more it hurts when you hit the ground. ( unless your name is Wylie coyote and you have Acme brand springs strapped to your feet )
 

Clim

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 26, 2022
I loved Solaris (in book form, haven't seen the movie), The Futurological Congress was my introduction to Lem and led me to read more of him.
Good luck with your project. I sincerely mean that, but I'm afraid you're just going to keep getting frustratingly close but never quite able to make it happen.

I loved Solaris (in book form, haven't seen the movie), The Futurological Congress was my introduction to Lem and led me to read more of him.
Good luck with your project. I sincerely mean that, but I'm afraid you're just going to keep getting frustratingly close but never quite able to make it happen.
I might have to get the book. The Wright Bros. faced a lot of criticism for building an airplane. PeopleWhat some of these guys missed is when the weight fell off the arm, then and only then did it rotate backwards.
I loved Solaris (in book form, haven't seen the movie), The Futurological Congress was my introduction to Lem and led me to read more of him.
Good luck with your project. I sincerely mean that, but I'm afraid you're just going to keep getting frustratingly close but never quite able to make it happen.

I was writing a response when the power went out. With what I'm working on, it took years to understand it. And with the builds I've done, I have a lot of practical experience with it.
What governments might start realizing is homes could've been 1/2 way into the ground (for insulation) and then geothermal heating and cooling.
With what they're building in Germany, the flask is probably heated by geothermal heat.
I do think my build will work. Math and mechanics and I've done a lot of it.
I've read Atlas Shrugged and also watched the movie. i might have to do the same with Lem.
 

Milacron

Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 15, 2000
Location
SC, USA
Actually it would NOT work, much the same.

Boy, for a board where people don't want to waste time discussion "hobby grade machines" there is sure a lot of time being wasted on a totally impossible build. At least the "hobby grade machines" actually make things. And I have even seen people making a living with them.
Yeah this is going on way too long for a fantasy project... locky poo time... :nono:
 
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