Phase Converter Troubleshooting

[critical_tinkerer]

I'm trying to get 3phase power to my garage shop to run a Bridgeport and a toolroom lathe. Hoping someone can provide some insight as to what may have happened here.

I ordered an installed a Phase Perfect - powered on the phase converter and everything looked good (input/ output voltages as expected). Called the manufacturer to confirm everything was nothing was good to go before connecting a load. I connected the Bridgeport, turned the phase converter back on and the breaker immediately tripped. Gave it a few minutes before trying to turn it back on, but when I did the Phase Converter was not working (input voltage good, but no output). Manufacturer says it was likely something wired wrong on the load side and my only option is to send back the phase converter for diagnosis. I can't figure out what could have gone wrong for the life of me.

Thanks in advance

 

[JST]

Not possible to say from that information. (You don't even give the model type)

There are three outputs from the standard PP. Two are the original supply wires, and the third is created by the PP (same idea as with an RPC).

Faults on the generated leg should be handled by protection within the PP. Maybe that did not happen correctly, or maybe the faults are on the pass- through" wires. I do not know if the PP has any protection for the pass-through wires, or if it relies on the supply protection.

First thing to do is disconnect power and the powered machine, and verify that there are no shorts present in the machine, or the connecting wires. Pay special attention to possible stray wire strands that may be touching an adjacent terminal, either in the machine, or at the PP end of the wires to the machine. If nothing shows up, then the issue may be in the PP.

See what the troubleshooting section of the manual has to say about the problem, and about any internal protection that may be user-serviceable.

If anything drastic occurred, in terms of an internal failure, I would expect there to be some burned smell. If not, then I would suggest, as a first check, disconnect power and check any internal protections that the manual mentions. If there are any called out as user serviceable, see if they have tripped/opened.

EDIT: The standard manual has troubleshooting info, and there are two internal fuses, as well as a breaker internal.

If no joy, then you may need to ship it back. It may be that they know about some possible issues in the model you have.

 

[jim rozen]

Given that level of manufacturer's "support" remind me to never buy one of those things.

 

[JST]

That might not be completely fair..... The PP is really pretty sophisticated inside, and working on it past whatever they suggest is not at all something for the average user to do.

There are static electricity issues, and if any significant work is done, you would need to perform many tests that few are equipped to deal with.

Fuses and the capacitor replacement are probably all (and maybe more than) I'd be comfortable suggesting users do.

 

[jim rozen]

Seems as though this is a brand new machine.

If I purchased a brand new anything, and it never worked, and the response was 'send it back and we'll check it out' then my rage-O-meter would be reading upscale quite a bit.

 

[SteveEx30]

Given that level of manufacturer's "support" remind me to never buy one of those things.

Now thats crazy talk.

I personally own 3 of them. They are fantastic units.

As JST mentioned, aside from fuses, changing CAPS there really isn't anything an avg person could Diagnose inside.

 

[JST]

Especially since when you look at the troubleshooting area in the manual, under "incoming circuit breaker continually trips" it shows "IGBT troubleshooting".

This isn't quite that, but the internal breaker may have opened. Not sure what that disconnects other than the output, but it's a thing to check.

 

[SomeoneSomewhere]

To a limited extent, that paints a picture of the equipment engineering. Control power supply? DC bus? If there's a micro onboard, surely at least having count-the-blinky fault codes would be worthwhile.

 

[BT Fabrication]

I'm trying to get 3phase power to my garage shop to run a Bridgeport and a toolroom lathe. Hoping someone can provide some insight as to what may have happened here.

I ordered an installed a Phase Perfect - powered on the phase converter and everything looked good (input/ output voltages as expected). Called the manufacturer to confirm everything was nothing was good to go before connecting a load. I connected the Bridgeport, turned the phase converter back on and the breaker immediately tripped. Gave it a few minutes before trying to turn it back on, but when I did the Phase Converter was not working (input voltage good, but no output). Manufacturer says it was likely something wired wrong on the load side and my only option is to send back the phase converter for diagnosis. I can't figure out what could have gone wrong for the life of me.

Thanks in advance

there isn't really an info to go on, ie size of breaker, power available, size of PP, size of hp of machine, how it was wired etc..... there is always the possibility of poor install etc, list goes on and on.

 

[JST]

Seems as though this is a brand new machine.

If I purchased a brand new anything, and it never worked, and the response was 'send it back and we'll check it out' then my rage-O-meter would be reading upscale quite a bit.

Looking at your post again......... What would make you happy in the situation?

Usually, the manufacturer or supplier response would be "bring it back (send it back) and we will replace it".

That sounds remarkably like what they are proposing.......

 

[rons]

If under warranty PP could send out a shipping box to get the unit back for fixing.

 

[jim rozen]

" They are fantastic units. "

When new. And when they work. New.

 

[604Pook]

I'm trying to get 3phase power to my garage shop to run a Bridgeport and a toolroom lathe. Hoping someone can provide some insight as to what may have happened here.

I ordered an installed a Phase Perfect - powered on the phase converter and everything looked good (input/ output voltages as expected). Called the manufacturer to confirm everything was nothing was good to go before connecting a load. I connected the Bridgeport, turned the phase converter back on and the breaker immediately tripped. Gave it a few minutes before trying to turn it back on, but when I did the Phase Converter was not working (input voltage good, but no output). Manufacturer says it was likely something wired wrong on the load side and my only option is to send back the phase converter for diagnosis. I can't figure out what could have gone wrong for the life of me.

Thanks in advance

Any chance you had the bridgeport turned on? does it run off a fwd/reverse switch or does it have a magnetic starter?

Phase converters can't be started with a load, not even a transformer should be connected.

 

[SteveEx30]

I would hope there's a splitter and a disconnect before each machine..

 

[SteveEx30]

" They are fantastic units. "

When new. And when they work. New.

Actually it did work, he verified voltages on load side. All was OK until he connected his BP... Makes you wonder doesn't it...

 

[rons]

Phase converter here is a digital one. It can have a load.

A rotary phase converter should start first before connecting a load.

 

[604Pook]

digital? Like a fixed frequency VFD?

 

[jim rozen]

"All was OK until he connected his BP... Makes you wonder doesn't it..."

Yep, if he had only left it in the shipping container, not connected to anything, it would have worked perfect.

Would be interesting to find out the resolution of that story from the OP.

 

[brunswick1901]

I'm trying to get 3phase power to my garage shop to run a Bridgeport and a toolroom lathe. Hoping someone can provide some insight as to what may have happened here.

I ordered an installed a Phase Perfect - powered on the phase converter and everything looked good (input/ output voltages as expected). Called the manufacturer to confirm everything was nothing was good to go before connecting a load. I connected the Bridgeport, turned the phase converter back on and the breaker immediately tripped. Gave it a few minutes before trying to turn it back on, but when I did the Phase Converter was not working (input voltage good, but no output). Manufacturer says it was likely something wired wrong on the load side and my only option is to send back the phase converter for diagnosis. I can't figure out what could have gone wrong for the life of me.

Thanks in advance

The breaker might be too small, there should be plate or label on the converter that will state the amps it needs to run.

Try installing a breaker and wires large enough to handle the amps needed to run the converter and the mill.

 

[Hopefuldave]

digital? Like a fixed frequency VFD?

Not quite, it uses the incoming power line for 2 of the phases, digital bit steers the generated phase (or so i'm led to believe), which is generated like one leg of a VFD but not frequency changed, just phase-shifted to keep the 3 phases balanced. I think.