Picking up 12,100 lb radial drill with two forklifts...ever done it ?

[machtool]

Just don't be like these guys. I'm sure they are glad someone was there to capture the moment.

That's not really relevant to this discussion. Simple case of one lift being overloaded, Tilt and surface angle bringing it un-done. But its a classic case of being on the border line. Max capacity at height with the mast tilted back. (Truck Height). As you lower it the load moves forward. (Sine of the mast angle). Then it goes arse over tit.

 

[machtool]

. They had to be doing that themselves, if a rigger had done that to my machine, there would be NO giggling.

When you extract it out to the original You-Tube.

Spitfire Motorcycle's was receiving a delivery of a new CNC machine when the moving company's fork lift tipped and slammed it on the ground.

It wasn't new, just new to them.

Spitfire Motorcycles*|*AMERICAN MADE HERE IN THE USASpitfire Motorcycles*|*Home - Spitfire Motorcycles

Set your clock for 6 - 8 - 10 months time. Their guaranteed to want to know how to chew out a Billet wheel.

And if we are reviewing that Vid, that street has a valley in it, look at 0.00 - 0.13. The counter weight is all ready pointing up hill. Best I can tell the tilt rams were fully closed, yet the load was barely horizontal.

Regards Phil.

 

[gbent]

OMG........

I know commenting on posts that are not 100% related to Milacron's OP is dangerous.
But what a bunch of unprofessional idiots. They had to be doing that themselves, if a rigger had done that to my machine, there would be NO giggling.

Looks like they could have choked up on the load a bit more. An example in the importance in moments, maxed out at the lift, they lost it when they went to lower it a bit too fast (just guessing).

No, their biggest problem was the back of the forklift was pointing uphill. I imagine they curled the mast back to lift the load. When they went to set the machine down, the angle of the mast moved the center of gravity of the load further in front of the front wheels, so over they went. If you ever think you will be in this situation, you have to crib under the front of the mast before you ever pick the load. You could still crib it after the load is in the air, but you better have some really long cribbing to slide it in position while staying out of the danger zone.

 

[bob]

I saw a guy killed doing something like this. Hire a crane

 

[powerglider]

I'll hold your beer...

LOL.. could go viral on YouTube after I drop it....depending on how badly the drill smashes into the pervious concrete.

 

[gustafson]

I am not a rigger nor do I play one on TV, but

The problem I see is that the small forklift is so much smaller that if the weight gets shifted to it it will fail to do its job. If you had 2 forklifts that were slightly undersized what you propose would be ok, but I would want more margin for safety on the smaller forklift

 

[Scottl]

Can it be done? Probably.

Is it safe to do it? Hell no!

One lift truck significantly undersized, 9 foot tall load, 2 operators trying to synchronize. So many things can go wrong that it sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

On an occasion where I witnessed a 2 truck lift both were identical 15,000 lb. Hysters with the dealership's most experienced operators. It was a straight lift off a rotten trailer (the whole reason for doing it this way) and the trailer was driven out from underneath. It involved the 2 operators, the truck driver, the shop foreman supervising, and several mechanics acting as spotters at the first inch or two of lift. It was done because it seemed less risky than trying to drive the $100,000 plus machine (a specialized lift truck for lumber yards) off the rotten transport trailer.

This was a crew of lift truck experts at a dealership with decades of experience and they thought long and hard before doing it. I doubt they would have attempted what you are thinking. I'm sorry if this offends you but I think if you do this luck will count as much as skill.

 

[Milacron]

That's not really relevant to this discussion. Simple case of one lift being overloaded, Tilt and surface angle bringing it un-done. But its a classic case of being on the border line. Max capacity at height with the mast tilted back. (Truck Height). As you lower it the load moves forward. (Sine of the mast angle). Then it goes arse over tit.

Bingo...you beat me to it. Lowering a weight that is near the lifts capacity is way more dangerous than raising it...for just that reason...the mast angle....assuming the mast is tilted back even 2 degrees, the higher the weight goes, the closer it is to the counterweight, the lower it goes, the further it is from the counterweight. Even if lowered veeeeery slowly, that forklift might have turned over for that reason. Any experienced forkllft operator could tell by the ease of which the rear wheels would turn standing still that he was near the limit. Also, with the machine lifted just a half inch off the trailer, he should have had some guys on that trailer trying to bounce the machine front to see how it felt.

And yet some other things could have gone wrong...maybe the tips of the forks were just barely under a section of base casting that was hollow right behind the tips and he had no plywood strips between forks and base and the machine slipped just 1/4" and that was all she wrote. Gotta check all that out before letting the semi drive out. And yeah, he should have directed the semi , to park somewhere where the forklift was sitting level or even better.. downhill, not uphill.

FWIW, in my earlier days I had a few situations where the forklift started to tllt over when the load was nearly down all the way. Best thing to do there is push "down" lever even further and get it down pronto all the way before the load and lift can tip over....even if the lowering is so fast you risk damage to the machine...better the machine damaged than the risk of you tipping over with it.

 

[ewlsey]

FWIW, I doubt that the tip really hurt that machine in any significant way. We see a piece of sheet metal pop off, but it didn't really hit that hard.

 

[Milacron]

Check your ratings, do the calculations, it's 9500 cap. to what distance out from the forklift mast?

I was actually being conservative...the below photo shows the Hyster lifting a Daewoo turning center with live tooling turret that weighed 9,500 lbs. according to the manual (net, not ship weight)

But due to sheet metal in the way I calculated I was probably more like 30" centers...maybe even more than 30"... rather than standard 24" where the ratings are done. (not to mention the side shift which would lower rating further)

In the proposed radial drill case I would be in theory at 20" centers, but probably more like 22" considering the side shift.

I was surprised the Hyster lifted that Daewoo like it was nothing, and the rear end of lift felt only a little light during my rear wheel turn tests.

 

[dkmc]

I watched someone try this once with a Pratt and Whitney Star Turn lathe. About the same weight as your case, maybe 12,000 lbs but I think they had less margin than your case. They managed to pick the machine up OK and drive the trailer out, but lowering was a near disaster. For whatever reason they weren't able to lower the machine uniformly enough, the larger forklift went just a little faster causing the weight to shift towards it. For some reason the person on the smaller forklift didn't react fast enough, had he lowered quickly the weight would have shifted back but instead the larger machine started to tip forward causing the weight to shift even more in that direction. The larger forklift continued to tip forward, the forks stuck into the asphalt, and the lathe slid forward off the forks. Amazingly the lathe didn't tip over and just landed with a huge dent in the pavement. Once off the forks the forklift tipped back on it's rear wheels, leaving the two fork stabbings in the pavement. Other than some asphalt patch and a change of underwear it was all good.

Alan

What they lacked was a 'brain' in each seat, and a proper conductor to keep them working in unison. It can be done.

 

[tim9lives]

I would never trust 2 drivers trying to do what is being described. I'm sure it can be done...But there are a lot of variables which can turn to a disaster. Everything from drivers to equipment.

In all honesty...I would try to contact a crane company and ask them for a price. You're probably talking a flat one hour charge on the crane plus the delivery set up charge.

If that's way too expensive....Then maybe you can split the machine in two. I've seen some of the older cast iron drill presses where the top separates from the base with just 4 bolts. As long as the forklift can reach the top of the drill you're only talking raising another 3 or four inches and then setting it on the trailer. The base would be easy with just one forklift once the top is removed.

 

[Milacron]

I would never trust 2 drivers trying to do what is being described. I'm sure it can be done...But there are a lot of variables which can turn to a disaster. Everything from drivers to equipment.

This sort of thing is usually done with 2 operators but I don't see any reason I couldn't operate both mast tilt and up/down levers by myself. In other words, I use the Hyster and chain to drag the radial drill to edge of trailer (assuming the timbers it sits on are the same width as the trailer or slide with it), disconnect chain, drive Hyster forks under heavy end of radial (i.e. where the column is and specify in advance the seller positions head near column for shipping), insert plywood anti slip strips on forks. Then I get the Daewoo 5K lift and drive it under the lighter side, install plywood on forks. Emergency brakes on both, I straddle both trucks (which is easy from a reach both controls standpoint but a little tricky from a stand/semi squat between trucks standpoint) , left hand operates Hyster controls, right hand operates Daewoo controls.

Both forklifts have excellent short "direct lever to valve" controls for super sensitive action (unlike some forklifts with comparatively "sloppy" action that have long levers connected indirectly to the valves)

I raise the machine 1/2" of definite clearance from trailer, with both lifts at once... I check out how light the rear each lift seems via rear wheel turning, if ok I hop on trailer and I attempt to shake the drill to see how solid it feels on the four forks. If all ok, I tell driver to pull out, I lower it to the awaiting skates or timbers. Pull out both forklifts and the rest is obvious.

Forgot to mention dkmc has flown down from the cornfields to film all this with my iPhone 6S, ready to press 911 on his Nokia flip phone. YouTube title "How to NOT unload a radial drill" ready for viral upload.

But now, just as I have your excitement at a fever pitch....damn if the radial in question has not been SOLD to someone else !! (the cute part being if was for sale for two years and just now got sold......even if not, it would probably be 3 weeks before this would happen.

 

[snowman]

I wouldn't hesitate as long as I trusted the other operator. We routinely unload trucks using two forklifts, and while our loads have a much lower cg, it's more about sync of the downspeed than anything.

I might consider figuring out how to add some counterweight to the smaller forklift, but realistically, it's probably one of those things you think about, then decide to say the hell with it since you don't have something really heavy that you can easily just strap to the back of the lift.


heh...you just replied while i was typing.

I think I'd be more comfortable with two operators than one working both controls....but I'm not very good at that type of thing...so that's more of a personal choice.

 

[Milacron]

I think I'd be more comfortable with two operators than one working both controls....but I'm not very good at that type of thing...so that's more of a personal choice.

But consider the "rigger street cred".....I would bask in the glory for a day at least

 

[fastone53w]

I would call a tow truck service and see what the load rating is on there biggest truck and have them lift it like a crane to get it off the truck.
I used tow trucks services for lifting machines many of times, they even have all of properly rated straps and slings needed. once off the truck and on ground disassemble drill in to smaller piece that you can lift with your equipment. Then you can move it in to shop in pieces and reassemble in final place

 

[dkmc]

SO disappointing......
Back to the land of snow and ice.


PS:
Flip phone??
I wish....my portable is a Bag Phone from 1998

 

[shutinlead]

TONS OF GLITCHES!!! (for those that don't recall or weren't old enough, this is a phrase the Gipper used) I was so looking forward to a little relief from my day to day routine.

 

[petersen]

Don:

I will suggest you rotate the machine crossways on the trailer.

That way you can have your lifts on opposite sides.

You might even be able to lift higher on the column end
by putting a timber across the forks to lift under the arm.

 

[snowman]

But consider the "rigger street cred".....I would bask in the glory for a day at least

Trust me...if I could do it, I would...but I'd move them both opposite directions or something. Coordination is NOT a skill of mine.

But I don't think riggers have street cred....watching them move our 50,000 lb shear a few weeks ago, they really took their time lifting from the top, getting everything just so...really being careful...it was a quoted job, so it's not like they were milking the clock. After they said "we could have just lifted it and put it on rollers, but we were worried about it being so topheavy".

...there was a small part of me that was silently calling them pussies