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Placement and overhang of Deckel model 6017 380mm rotary table

ballen

Titanium
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Location
Garbsen, Germany
I'm making some cast iron laps, using a Deckel 6017 rotary table on my FP2. I have a question about the placement.

The table has knobs and controls underneath which lie below the place of the feet. So the only reasonable way to mount it on my FP2 is at the front of the horizontal table, like this:

attachment.php


That puts it quite far from the column and horizontal spindle. Is this what Deckel intended, or was there a different solution envisioned for the FP2, which puts the table closer to the column?
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2005
Location
The Netherlands
The Kastentisch can be mounted closer to the column but higher up then
So perhaps not enough daylight
BTW What knobs lay below the the mounting surface ?
Another BTW Why use the rotary table to make that lapping plate??

Peter
 

ballen

Titanium
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Location
Garbsen, Germany
Hi Peter,

The Kastentisch can be mounted closer to the column but higher up then. So perhaps not enough daylight.

I have the impression that the 6017 rotary table was designed for the FP1, which has a narrower horizontal table than the FP2.

BTW What knobs lay below the the mounting surface ?

There are two controls below the mounting plane. One is a knob that you pull down to release the lock pin set at 15 degree increments (24 evenly spaced stops). The second is the rotary locking lever.

Another BTW Why use the rotary table to make that lapping plate?

I'm making three plates (A,B,C) so I can lap them against each other for flatness, AB then BC then CA and so on. The plates are 250mm diameter, so to cut the grooves there is not enough Y travel (200mm) on my FP2. At first I clamped a plate directly on the table, but spent more time doing setup than cutting. On the rotary table I can cut and rotate with no setup between cuts, just rotate the table. That saves almost all of the setup time. Here's what it looks like:

attachment.php
 

AlfaGTA

Diamond
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Location
Benicia California USA
This is what 2-4-6 blocks are for....And yes that r-table was originally designed for the FP1..
I have a collection of "riser" plates that i have saved from the scrap yard. Tee slots on the top and hold down lugs on the lower edged..(these are common on boring mills)..I have several different sizes.
But the 2-4-6 blocks that are through and cross drilled are most convenient. One can pass hold down bolts through the holes from say your rotary to the machine table.
Also have a collection of shop made spacer blocks....Round from pre hardened stock. Cut off in the lathe and then surface ground on both sides....Make these with a through hole
and a good sized counter bore on one side.....Very handy for holding parts that have perimeter bolt patterns. Bolt the disc to the edge of a part and then place the disc on the machine table. Edge of the disc will
extend outside of the part edge and allow use of a hold down clamp....Have a variety of OD's and lengths as needed.

Don't need to reach further than the mid point of the table...right!

Cheers Ross
 

sigurasg

Aluminum
Joined
May 4, 2018
I'm making some cast iron laps, using a Deckel 6017 rotary table on my FP2. I have a question about the placement.

The table has knobs and controls underneath which lie below the place of the feet. So the only reasonable way to mount it on my FP2 is at the front of the horizontal table, like this:

attachment.php


That puts it quite far from the column and horizontal spindle. Is this what Deckel intended, or was there a different solution envisioned for the FP2, which puts the table closer to the column?

I wondered the same thing. My manual has this depiction, which has the rotary table perched all the way out to the edge of the angular table:
attachment.php


Of course if you flip the horizontal table around, you get closer to the column by some 90-90mm - at the cost of a fair bit of Z.

Circular table.jpg
 

ballen

Titanium
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Location
Garbsen, Germany
Hi Ross,

This is what 2-4-6 blocks are for.

I have some 1-2-3 blocks but not 2-4-6.

I think I'll make a standoff plate. Should I make it so that the rotab bolts to the plate and the plate to the mill table? Or better to just go through the plate directly to the table?

Cheers,
Bruce
 

ballen

Titanium
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Location
Garbsen, Germany
I had a look in some old Deckel sales literature, and found this in their 1969 catalog:

attachment.php


The horizontal table goes OVER the top of the vertical table so brings the rotary table about 10cm closer to the column. Funny coincidence: I think they are using this to cut slots in a square lapping plate -- I can not think of another reason to put this onto a rotary table except to rotate 90 degrees for the perpendicular cuts.

Here's another photo from above, showing how it brings the table relatively close to the vertical column bellows:

attachment.php


Martin, I found this in a French brochure from the mid-60s.

attachment.php


It shows the small table which you indicated, but describes it as a "right angle table for clamping of low or irregular parts. Surfaces scraped and perfectly square." So I have the impression that it was not intended to mount the rotary table, although I am sure it would do that very well.
 

lucky7

Stainless
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Location
Canada
Hmmm, have been looking for that table/spacer Martin showed on my side of the Atlantic for years... Is it common in second hand European market?

L7
 

sneebot

Stainless
Joined
May 14, 2001
Location
Massachusetts
I believe this might be the riser you are looking for...

However, this came out of an FP4M manual-- I'm not sure if the T-slot spacing
would match the FP2.

20201227_194928.jpg
 

ballen

Titanium
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Location
Garbsen, Germany
Hi Matt,

This might be the riser ... however, this came out of an FP4M manual-- I'm not sure if the T-slot spacing would match the FP2.

Thanks for posting. The picture makes me think that Deckel wanted to keep using their 380mm rotary table, originally designed for an FP1, on later larger machines. So they kept on improvising spacers and other mounting solutions. My FP2 has a 45mm T-slot spacing, which matches the 6017 table feet. So to use this on later machines with a bigger slot spacing (is it 60mm?) they made adaptor mounting plates like you've shown. I'm starting to think a similar plate but matched to my machine might be the best solution.

Cheers,
Bruce
 

Martin P

Stainless
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
Germany in the middle towards the left
Lucky7, the thing I show is actually quite rare and that price is OK.

Sneebot is showing the correct table for the purpose, I got it confused. This one is also quite rare. Normally, when they do come up so rarely, people do not know what they are, so they are not advertised as Deckel.
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2005
Location
The Netherlands
I had a look in some old Deckel sales literature, and found this in their 1969 catalog:

attachment.php


The horizontal table goes OVER the top of the vertical table so brings the rotary table about 10cm closer to the column. Funny coincidence: I think they are using this to cut slots in a square lapping plate -- I can not think of another reason to put this onto a rotary table except to rotate 90 degrees for the perpendicular cuts.

Here's another photo from above, showing how it brings the table relatively close to the vertical column bellows:

attachment.php


Martin, I found this in a French brochure from the mid-60s.

attachment.php


It shows the small table which you indicated, but describes it as a "right angle table for clamping of low or irregular parts. Surfaces scraped and perfectly square." So I have the impression that it was not intended to mount the rotary table, although I am sure it would do that very well.



Thats what I was talking about in my post #2


Peter
 

ballen

Titanium
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Location
Garbsen, Germany
For the record, here are the worst cases:

attachment.php


attachment.php


The handles and knobs project 40mm below the mounting plane. So a 45mm standoff is needed. The footprint is 200x300mm. For the record, a solid piece of steel or cast iron that size would be 22kg. If I can get a suitable sized bit of scrap I will grind it parallel and mill some pockets and holes/slots in it.

The back of the table is currently 135mm from the Z-axis bellows. So if I move it back 90mm (two T slots) or a bit more, that will be just right.
 

AlfaGTA

Diamond
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Location
Benicia California USA
The handles and knobs project 40mm below the mounting plane. So a 45mm standoff is needed. T

Yep, that makes a 2-4-6 block just perfect. Purchase a pair and use lying flat , one under each side of your rotab....
Easily handled and quite useful for additional fixturing chores....Your hold down bolts will pass through the drilled holes.(at least the ones i own)...
Can be held in the vise like an angle plate or stood up on end and bolted through the end drillings...
IMO much more versatile than a dedicated single plane plate....I own 4 matched in all dimensions and use then quite often.Some examples:

attachment.php


attachment.php


attachment.php


attachment.php


Nice thing about the 2-4-6 is that they and be moved around to suit different needs...

Cheers Ross
 

ballen

Titanium
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Location
Garbsen, Germany
Hi Ross,

Here's a photo of the 6017 rotary table from underneath (hanging from a chain hoist):

attachment.php


The two support holes are 135mm apart. Doesn't that mean that I would need four 2-4-6 blocks rather than two?

I like the idea of a clamping table, because that could support the table under all of the points in the seating plane, rather than simply the four clamp points.

Would it be enough to support this on the area around the clamping slots? In that case I could use two pieces of ground steel 45 x 100 x 200 and leave the middle unsupported. But one thing I also like about a custom slab with full support is that it can be a bit wider than the table, with clamping ears, so the rotary table clamps to the slab and the slab can be clamped anywhere, via the ears.
 

sigurasg

Aluminum
Joined
May 4, 2018
OK, now I understand!

Also, when you flip the table, the underside of the horizontal table registers against the top edge of the vertical table. You'll get more rigidity and possibly better registration than the keys on the other side will give against the vertical table slots.
 
Last edited:

ballen

Titanium
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Location
Garbsen, Germany
Also, when you flip the table, the underside of the horizontal table registers against the top edge of the vertical table. You'll get more rigidity and possibly better registration than the keys on the other side will give against the vertical table slots.

That makes sense. Problem is that I don't own that model of horizontal table, only the extra-large one. I've looked online and these smaller horizontal tables cost 700-2000 Euros. Not sure it's worth that to me.
 

BillE

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Location
Sydney Au
ballen said:
My FP2 has a 45mm T-slot spacing, which matches the 6017 table feet. So to use this on later machines with a bigger slot spacing (is it 60mm?) they made adaptor mounting plates like you've shown.

63mm.

One of the brochures here, also shows an even smaller riser was also available in that same spacingimg174.jpg
 








 
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