Possible to automate swapping a long tool in and out of lathe?

[tonymor]

At 240 pcs/day, how are you planning to schedule insert changes?



I think this is still the better plan.

If you space your chuck forward far enough you can install four drills in the same machine at stations 1, 4, 7, and 10 (assuming 12 station turret). That'll keep this machine uninterrupted for 4X longer.

We've automated four lathes and 10+ mills. The common bottleneck on all of them is always tooling.

Planning on a single shift for right now, 2nd shift to be added as demand increases. We're definitely not a lights out shop. This cell will have an operator loading/unloading material racks, checking measurements and changing inserts. The 6 minute part to part cycle time is for the whole production line, we should be below that for actual cycle time which will allow for tip changes and changeovers. If we don't quite hit our cycle time targets, machines can be run on second shift to catch up.

 

[tonymor]

Several builders offer long tool changing/storage as an option. Typically the turret just drives over and drags the tool out of a special pocket in the sheetmetal.

You could probably accomplish the same thing (albeit less elegantly) with a robot tender and a capto interface on the turret. I don't see any capto blocks online that you can actuate via mcode, but it probably wouldn't be too hard to build your own, if you had to.

Something along these lines would be nice if we could get our MTB to incorporate something similar.

 

[Ox]

Well there yuh go...
Basically the same thing as what I said that Haas did.

So where's the problem?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[tonymor]

Well there yuh go...
Basically the same thing as what I said that Haas did.

So where's the problem?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Doosan were not one of the builders in the running for this. I have put in the request with the front runners, hoping they can offer it.

 

[Orange Vise]

Something along these lines would be nice if we could get our MTB to incorporate something similar.

That looks like a huge problem solver.

It's only changing the head though, not the whole bar. Is that going to work?

 

[Ox]

The Haas took out the whole bar.

I wouldn't be surprised that Doosan would as well, if they doo this.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[EmGo]

I think youse guys are overcomplexifying this. I'd stick a gun drill out back and save a lot of potential screwups and money too.

 

[Ox]

I don't think that the gun drill has nearly the advantages that you give it anymore.
Sure, there was a day, but the tooling of today diminishes the requirement for the dedicated machine down to the most precise and long holes.

Then, you are dealing with oily chips.
If you don't have any other oil slingers in the shop already, and given the volume of chips that he is talking, he would need to add a chip spinner also. While I have 2 spinners for sale, I doubt that they want to paint themselves into a corner unless needed.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[EmGo]

the tooling of today diminishes the requirement for the dedicated machine

Except in this case where it's a total pain in the ass, getting in the way and requiring some hokey drill-changer thing ... it wouldn't have to be a traditional gun drill, they make stuff that uses coolant and modern drills, but get that thing out of the way .... sometimes a second op really is more efficient than trying to do everything in a rube goldberg device.

Just one man's opinion, of course. I could be so full of shit my eyes are brown

Then, you are dealing with oily chips.

They make driller machines that run coolant and insert drills rather than strictly gun drills. I just used the term loosely, /me bad.

he would need to add a chip spinner also. While I have 2 spinners for sale,

Small, or those giant ones ? We know somebody who wants one ...

 

[Ox]

I have a pair of 40's and a pr of 48" Tolhursts.
I will sell one of each.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[hanermo]

I don´t really see a problem.
With generous cycle times, 6 min or so, it´s perfectly feasible to touch probe the tool(s) after each change.
Both for length, and possibly for concentricity into a pre-calibrated hole (go gage).
This c/would ensure the tool is straight, and of the right length.

Industrial robots used in say automotive parts manufacturing use tend to be extremely reliable.

Endless ways to ghetto build this, but I would not sell such a solution, nor do I advise it.

Just buy the right size abb robot, a custom gripper, and pay the recommended integrator the 40-50k$ that they will make it work.
About 140k all-in, perhaps less.

You could add your own cheap strain gages, or noise gages, temp sensor, all tripping the estop if you want for extra peace of mind.
Just don´t make them part of the process, drive an external relay to extra estop with external cheap hw, and then a human can come take a look.
Imo.
Ime.
You don´t want to integrate everything into the control.
You just want everything to stop when anything is out of normal boundaries.

 

[tonymor]

I think youse guys are overcomplexifying this. I'd stick a gun drill out back and save a lot of potential screwups and money too.

These two lathes will be robot fed. Hoping to avoid the additional operator and operation with the gun drilling.
What kind of a cycle time would you expect on the gun drilling? Ø45mm hole, 500mm deep?
I have been told the gun drill we have at the other plant would not be able to do this too quickly.
I think it also has a max size of Ø32mm, so maybe it is just a baby.

I know they also prep the ends of the rods they gun drill - Another operation to gun drill before machining?

 

[GiroDyno]

Mount a drill to one of those quick change 5 axis milling pallets for a pneumatic clamp/unclamp. If its mounted to the face of the turret the thrust from drilling will just force the pallet into the receiver, seems like that would be pretty rigid.
Pneumatic clamping means the robot can hold the drill during the entire clamp/unclamp process which can't hurt.

 

[EmGo]

These two lathes will be robot fed. Hoping to avoid the additional operator and operation with the gun drilling.

I shouldn't have said "gun drill", was thinking of things like this

https://files.catbox.moe/0t6wjt.mp4

easily robot fed, simple to maintain, could feed two lathes no problem, inexpensive, flexible, as fast as any insert drilling, could even pre-prepare by running lights-out on the off shift if the timing wasn't perfect between drilling and turning ...

I just dislike overly-complex systems. By making your turning more complicated with el-weirdo drill changers you limit your choice of lathes, add another unusual feature that's going to be prone to breakage, just, imo, give yourself more headaches. But that seems to be the way the US is going, One Machine To Do It All sitting in the center of the room .... pretty soon the lathe will have to pack and ship, too

 

[Aejgx6]

Why couldn't you mount the drill in a custom tail stock and drag/feed it with the turret? With a couple linear bearings you could park the drill off axis also.

 

[tonymor]

Why couldn't you mount the drill in a custom tail stock and drag/feed it with the turret? With a couple linear bearings you could park the drill off axis also.

We're going to need the length to front load the 3m long rods. We can get away with a 2m bed with some modification and no tailstock. We would have to go for a 4m lathe if we were going this route. And now you're into a much heavier duty(and slower) machine than we need.

 

[Ox]

Breach?

Actually, you likely could just load the dumb thing with a 12' magazine loader.
Don't know your bar size fer sure, you say 4" capacity machine...
12' loaders go to 3"+, but IDK about 4"?
Some old Cinci loaders did back in the 80's / 90's.

Pass through the sub and come out the other side onto a run-out table.

From what I am gathering of your job, that is exactly what I would doo - given the mag loader is an option.
And if it's not, rolling our own feed rack specifically for your app wouldn't be hard, and likely less costly than just buying a 4" mag loader?

You can drill way back into the main spindle. (I doo)

I doo this kind of app routinely.
Just need a pass through sub.
Even if you only use the sub for unloading and staged feeding (pulling) porpoises...


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[tonymor]

Breach?

Actually, you likely could just load the dumb thing with a 12' magazine loader.
Don't know your bar size fer sure, you say 4" capacity machine...
12' loaders go to 3"+, but IDK about 4"?
Some old Cinci loaders did back in the 80's / 90's.

Pass through the sub and come out the other side onto a run-out table.

From what I am gathering of your job, that is exactly what I would doo - given the mag loader is an option.
And if it's not, rolling our own feed rack specifically for your app wouldn't be hard, and likely less costly than just buying a 4" mag loader?

You can drill way back into the main spindle. (I doo)

I doo this kind of app routinely.
Just need a pass through sub.
Even if you only use the sub for unloading and staged feeding (pulling) porpoises...


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

These are chromed rods for cylinders and we have to be relatively careful handling them. 3m is the max length. They will be anywhere from 1-3m long. Diameters every increment of 5 between 50 and 75. Have all kinds of fun nesting lengths to avoid big drops.

Front loading with the robot has a lot of benefits for quick changeovers from one diameter to another and different length combinations.

 

[Ox]

Well if 75mm is max diameter, then you should be in like Slim!

I git what'chew are sayin' about carefull, but you could easily change features on the feeder to UHMW.
Make your liners all UHMW.

Your sub-spindle liner would possibly be PVC (mine are) but it depends on what you spindle bore is...
Either way, I am sure that you could find plastic tubing in a size that would work. Just may be a bit more $ than sch 40 PVC.

You could run plastic pads in your sub-spindle as well, as it's not really dooing anything, other than pulling, and being a steady rest / tailstock?

But getting down to 3" makes this a whole lot less of an issue!

Not sure your plan to clamp on the rod to blow such a hole in it tho?
It doesn't sound like you are planning on soft or plastic jaws and a padded steady rest, so you must be planning on clamping up on the chrome like normal?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[tonymor]

Just regular old aluminum jaws in a 3 jaw chuck. Once you keep the big chips and stringy swarf out of them they work just fine. Saw cut rod will be loaded up against a pneumatic tailstock with a cone on it, cone on the turret then to push back the required distance.