Possible to automate swapping a long tool in and out of lathe?

[tonymor]

4 meter machine.

But as Murphy's Law would have it, someone's gonna order even longer piston rods to exceed the capacity of the 4m machine.

Always. But on our existing, not so automated line we are running up to 5m now so I don't mind keeping the new line focused on the parts with the volume.

 

[tonymor]

You can run all 40' through a subspindle machine...


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Just need to drop a mill on a Bardons and Oliver machine...

 

[Ox]

As long as you understand that most lathes like that are not quite like that one.
That one appears to possibly have a hydraulic actuated sub-spindle. (linear)
That works fine for parts where you are only working the ends.

But a ball screw actuated sub, you can manipulate the bar anywhere, and stop and work on it here and there on the way.

Now maybe you can trust this barfeeder to locate the [tube] pretty accurately, but for good precission in Z, you would want to be able to pull with the sub.

That Bardons and Oliver does have milling capability. But it does NOT lend it'self well to being able to drill your hole at all. With a twin turret machine with upper and lower turrets, we put our long drills on the opposite turret.

We have ran much longer parts out the back door, but this shows an 8" long part going out the back door.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[tonymor]

I can see how a setup like yours could do the job alright. Orange had mentioned too about a secondary turret being the easiest way to handle the long drill. At least with the sub spindle you can do a good job of utilizing both turrets.

What brand is the longer drill in your picture? I have been using Arno drills up to this point, was thinking of taking a look at the allied machine drills.

 

[Ox]

That one is a 1.062 Allied Gen 3.

IDK if they are any better or worse than the Iscar's, but on the bigger sizes - the cost of entry is way better by going with Allied!
And it's Yank... (Ohio even)

I am getting ~~2000"~~ of chips in 1018/A36.
Could prolly doo a little better if I had more thrust.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[tonymor]

I'd be very happy with that sort of distance. That would be 100+ of my longest holes.
What sort of speeds and feeds? I think on my 580mm x 40mm Arno drill I was running something like 450rpm .36mm/rev. I would build up to that feed after getting the tip fully engaged.

 

[Ox]

Today I was running 1000rpm x .007.
But same job on another machine appears that we were running 1250 rpm.

I have HPC on the other, but haven't seen that it makes a whole lot of difference on this job.

Again, I think the rec feed range is well north of this, but that's all the ass my smaller machines have, now that everything is built for fast/light cuts.

If I had a full time job like this, I would swap in a finer ball screw.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Strostkovy]

Today I was running 1000rpm x .007.
But same job on another machine appears that we were running 1250 rpm.

I have HPC on the other, but haven't seen that it makes a whole lot of difference on this job.

Again, I think the rec feed range is well north of this, but that's all the ass my smaller machines have, now that everything is built for fast/light cuts.

If I had a full time job like this, I would swap in a finer ball screw.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Do finer ballscrews have a higher load capacity? It was my understanding that they are weaker due to the smaller balls, unless you make up for it with a really long ballnut, which you usually can't for screw stretch/pitch reasons.

Might be worth looking at the load ratings of the two ballscrews, and seeing if you can put in an inline reducer or different belt ratio or a torqueier servo

 

[tonymor]

It's been a little while, but we have made some progress on the long drill storage.
Video showing some of the early testing we are carrying out.

 

[Ox]

Yeah, those long drills like to sing a tune.

OK, so how are you clamping that?
Apparently it's not coolant pressure, so ... ???

Is there something taking place at the headwall that I'm not seeing?
Like a shot pin or some such?



Thanks for the update!


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I am Ox and I approve this here post!

 

[MotoX]

Thats pretty fuckin sweet.

We need more details!

 

[Ox]

Is that the Haas that I think that I mentioned in the beginning of this thread?


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I am Ox and I approve this here post!

 

[tonymor]

Yeah, those long drills like to sing a tune.

OK, so how are you clamping that?
Apparently it's not coolant pressure, so ... ???

Is there something taking place at the headwall that I'm not seeing?
Like a shot pin or some such?



Thanks for the update!


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I am Ox and I approve this here post!

The adapter that the drill mounts into has a spring loaded internal sliding mechanism. The springs push on a taper that expand 4 ball bearings. The tool holder on the turret has a matching groove for the balls to expand into.

The sliding housing that is mounted in the bulkhead fires a pin that engages the outer part of the housing. When the turret retracts with the pin fired, it releases the ball bearings and holds onto the tool as the turret moves away. At a certain point, a hole in the internal mechanism lines up with the fired pin and that holds the tool in this state, ready for remounting in the turret.

Similar to a BT/CAT mill tool holder, there are a pair of drive dogs on the turret mounting sleeve that engage with the drill adapter. This is what transfers all the torque. There are clearances on all the moving parts, so it is not a super rigid connection when mounted in the turret. It would not work for a boring bar and a pilot hole is definitely necessary, but vibration is no worse than running it mounted in a regular tool holder.

 

[Ox]

It was a 3" or larger x 30" (?) long boring bar that I watched cycle and run in a Haas SL4 (S4?).
It seemed to work OK from watching it at the trade show.

For a drill app tho - sure, it doesn't need to be rigid.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[kineticmx]

Bravo, I am very impressed seeing you follow through on this idea, despite all the other input you received on this thread pointing you in opposite directions.
Two questions if I may:
How many hours do you have into the project thus far, and how far from production do you think you are?
Did you buy any of the hardware from a MTB parts department or was everything made from scratch?

 

[tonymor]

What you see there was not designed or manufactured by me. We are in the process of building two new hydraulic cylinder production lines. When I was researching the topic last year, I was getting quotes for 4 new lathes from various MTBs.

I put the idea to them, one of them came back and said yep, we can do that, and now here we are, a few weeks after taking delivery of the lathes. The dealer/importer is taking all the responsibility for the design and integration of the mechanism. I know what they priced it at when I placed the PO. I also know they have overshot that figure but are standing behind the offering and are going to see it through.

There are no parts from the MTB. Everything is either custom designed or ordered from McMaster-Carr.

 

[Ox]

Good grief, is it a bloody secret as to who the MTB is?


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I am Ox and I approve this here post!

 

[tonymor]

Good grief, is it a bloody secret as to who the MTB is?


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I am Ox and I approve this here post!

Nope. Says it right on the video. Machine is a CMZ TD35Y

 

[Ox]

OK thanks.
I've never heard of them.

I went to their site, but they won't let you see much'a nutt'n w/o agreeing to their cookies, so I opted out.


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I am Ox and I approve this here post!

 

[tonymor]

OK thanks.
I've never heard of them.

I went to their site, but they won't let you see much'a nutt'n w/o agreeing to their cookies, so I opted out.


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I am Ox and I approve this here post!

Damn Europeans