Potential New machine

[Hertz]

Good morning guys,
while i am still in the process of researching this machine that we have proposed to us, I'd like to see if anyone here has this machine or any other machine of the same manufacturer. I have not heard of this brand until recently, and I'd like to get some real world feedback if i can.
The machine brand is Akira-Seiki.
The mill in the proposal is Model HV8.

HV8A

High rigidity and availability 6,000-8,000rpm 42HP

www.akiraseiki.com

 

[Mtndew]

The thing that stands out to me, and this may not apply to your kind of work, is the max cutting feedrate limited to 315ipm.

 

[plastikdreams]

The thing that stands out to me, and this may not apply to your kind of work, is the max cutting feedrate limited to 315ipm.

I saw that too, it is a 50 taper machine though so speed can be made up using brute force.

 

[Garwood]

I had a couple 2005ish Akira Seiki V3 mills. They were basic Taiwan machines. Nothing great, but nothing bad either.

With 81" of X, 35HP at 6000 RPM and 30K lbs it sounds like it probably has some of the beef, but not all of it.

I don't even see chip conveyor as an option. That's kinda funny.

 

[Hertz]

I had a couple 2005ish Akira Seiki V3 mills. They were basic Taiwan machines. Nothing great, but nothing bad either.

With 81" of X, 35HP at 6000 RPM and 30K lbs it sounds like it probably has some of the beef, but not all of it.

I don't even see chip conveyor as an option. That's kinda funny.

Chip conveyor is included. I have an actual proposal with the options, however I just wanted to see if any of you knew this brand. The proposal I have has a max federate of 700ipm.
There are a few other things that are different, as the link I posted is for the HV8A and what I have here is the HV8. I've reached out to the dealer in the differences because the one I have proposed isn't on the website.

 

[Mtndew]

The proposal I have has a max federate of 700ipm.

On our new Hyundai with Fanuc IHMI Smart Plus control, the max feedrate is 472ipm.
HOWEVER, if you have the G05.1 accuracy mode on, it will have a max feedrate of 590ipm which I find strange. This is not listed anywhere. Just food for thought.

 

[rcoope]

One obvious question given you're in Sudbury is what does service look like? This is always a fraught business as it can come down to individual service people but knowing there's someone who can get there quickly and who works on enough of these machines to be up to speed is helpful. Have you talked to other CNC operators in Sudbury about their experiences?

 

[metal-ica]

I think the founder used to sell a machine called a Comet in the early 90's. He then started branding and marketing this machine in Silicon Valley and installed a lot of them. I know a shop that still has 3 from the 90's and early 2000's and they're working everyday. I have a V4, 2015 vintage and it's been ok. I'm not a big fan of the mitsubishi control... Mine has limited memory which is very frustrating. It's more rigid than a HAAS but I'd buy HAAS over this for service / parts / resale value / uniformity of control (in my shop)

 

[Hertz]

Hi again guys. Looking at another machine here that I was quoted from SMS.
Anyone have this brand? Looking over the specs and it seems like a decent machine. Not sure though about the brand. Again, haven't heard of this make before, granted I've been away from this part of the business for awhile. Any input about it would be appreciated.

Microdynamics Tera 60V CNC Vertical Machining Centers

Micro Dynamics Vertical Machining Center Line opens a new era in multi-purpose and versatile machining centers. Compact, durable, powerful, strong and accurate, the MEGA / TERA Series starts a revolution in the market: the smallest C-frame machines provide powerful and precise results for...

www.smsmachine.com

 

[Digital Factory]

Your best bet is to ask the dealer to put you in contact with someone local with the same or similar machine.

Taiwan's industry is nothing like North America's. You'll often see multiple machine tool builders next door to each other, owned by brothers/cousins. The country as a whole is vertically integrated with all of the infrastructure centralized in Taichung. The individual companies are not vertically integrated at all. So they're all sharing the same suppliers, and you'll see a ton of similarities between the dozens, if not hundreds, of machine tool brands coming out of the country.

It ultimately boils down to local service. I know nothing about the dealer, SMS, but they have some nice brands in their line card like Hermle and Okamoto. That inspires some confidence. One question you may want to ask them is who services those brands. Do they have their own techs or do they fly in factory techs? The former is better, because the latter would mean they're just middlemanning the entire transaction, including after sales support.

 

[plastikdreams]

Instead of looking at these obscure machines why not pay a lil extra and get peace of mind along with all the other benefits?

 

[Scruffy887]

Instead of looking at these obscure machines why not pay a lil extra and get peace of mind along with all the other benefits?

And for sure there are benefits. Like a big crash and getting it sorted out next day for zip.

 

[Garwood]

Akira-Seiki isn't a nobody company. I wouldn't say they're hugely popular, but I've seen more of them in the wild then, say, Hurcos.

These Taiwan VMC's are really basic machines. They don't really have complicated stuff to fail. You got bearings, ballscrews, rails, trucks, way covers, a spindle, some Mac valves and some Mitsubishi electronics. If something breaks you google the part # on it and buy it. Akira-Seiki probably has a USA dealer. I know I got spare new ballscrews and a spindle in the crate when I bought the ones I had. The parts came from somewhere.

The ones I had were on par or a little better quality than a VF3 Haas of the same year. But they were 1/2 the price new and I bought them used, just a few years old, for about 1/10th of used Haas price.

 

[Ox]

And for sure there are benefits. Like a big crash and getting it sorted out next day for zip.

And who offers this?


---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Scruffy887]

And who offers this?


---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Not offered by Mazak but that crash bailout did happen 22 years ago. Crashed early evening, called next morning, tech here day after that. Here most of the day. Turret whacked out, VDI holder with sheared off pins, mashed stick slots, fubar sub jaws too.
2 new Mazaks in 21 and 2 more again in 22. Not shy about sending a tech here at random (between installs or ?) to say "need help with anything?"

 

[Ox]

Wow, that's about 8 years before everyone else got theirs out!




-----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[gregormarwick]

Instead of looking at these obscure machines why not pay a lil extra and get peace of mind along with all the other benefits?

These days the big name MTBs are for complex multiaxis machines or if you have some serious performance and accuracy requirements.

For simple lathes and 3/4ax VMCs, there is pretty much zero compelling reason to buy any of them over a Taiwanese brand.

This, IMHO, is especially true of Mazak, who fall under the exact same umbrella as Haas in my eyes - overpriced and overrated.

Most of the Taiwanese brands have representation in most countries, and even if they don't in your location you can probably find the exact same machine from another brand that does.

 

[Hertz]

All this is good info. Thanks a lot for the input.
The 2nd machine in question that I posted from SMS, is discounted pretty good, fits our sizes and specs we're looking for, and is all serviced by the dealer who are only a few hours from us. It has been added to the shortlist.
As for the comment about the performance and accuracy requirements, we do not have those requirements, as most of our work is mining equipment and a tight tolerance would be .001.
I'm gonna search a few more to add to our shortlist and go from there. Thanks again.

 

[finix]

Hi again guys. Looking at another machine here that I was quoted from SMS.
Anyone have this brand? Looking over the specs and it seems like a decent machine. Not sure though about the brand. Again, haven't heard of this make before, granted I've been away from this part of the business for awhile. Any input about it would be appreciated.

Microdynamics Tera 60V CNC Vertical Machining Centers

Micro Dynamics Vertical Machining Center Line opens a new era in multi-purpose and versatile machining centers. Compact, durable, powerful, strong and accurate, the MEGA / TERA Series starts a revolution in the market: the smallest C-frame machines provide powerful and precise results for...

www.smsmachine.com

We have a lot of Akira Seiki floating around here in Taiwan, two in the factory next door. Nothing particular to write home about, you won’t be impressed, but you won’t be too disappointed either unless service issues.

Micro dynamics is an interesting one, I first heard about it 1.5~2 years ago. VMC builder in Taiwan owned by an American. Since then I’ve bee extremely impressed, if I ever need a 40 taper VMC there’s a high chance I’ll buy microdynamics.

A good friend of mine, who has 20+ VMC’s swears by these machines. He claims it runs circles around his YCM’s and Quasar’s. I’ve visited and these things can really take a cut in steel, they’re also super dynamic in aluminum with the Mitsubishi G05 hsm code turned on.

At TIMTOS this year I was once again impressed by the mits control demo, can toggle random/ fixed position for Atc pockets with 1 click, on a visual interface. I asked to see the procedure of recovering from a failed ATC tool change, that was super easy. Most impressive was it was on the second floor of the building and it was taking pretty impressive cuts and still sounding great. I can’t think of the last time a local built VMC promised to be a little more than the reliable, but ordinary and slow work horse.

 

[Scruffy887]

These days the big name MTBs are for complex multiaxis machines or if you have some serious performance and accuracy requirements.

For simple lathes and 3/4ax VMCs, there is pretty much zero compelling reason to buy any of them over a Taiwanese brand.

This, IMHO, is especially true of Mazak, who fall under the exact same umbrella as Haas in my eyes - overpriced and overrated.

Most of the Taiwanese brands have representation in most countries, and even if they don't in your location you can probably find the exact same machine from another brand that does.

Mazak is one of the very largest MTBs in the world for a reason. When you tour a Mazak plant you will see only Mazak machines making Mazak machines. Plasma, laser, sheet metal forming too. And an Okamoto grinder located where a shim is needed for final adjustment. Things may be different on your side of the pond though.